signfan Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.infoquad.com%2Factions%2Fpage%3FdocId%3D10332%26ctx%3D%26Aucun%3DSentiers%20de%20VTT%20et%20de%20motoneige%3A%20Quebec%20injecte%20pres%20de%2011%20M%24%26request_locale%3Dfr&edit-text= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I am buying a quebec pass next year and will no longer be buying one from Ontario. It is no longer worth my bother to ride local, and if \i am going to trailer, QC is an hour away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuyuna Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Nothing can be changed by running away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 The liberals will NEVER invest in our sport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 $11 million from the Quebec government. Impressive commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuyuna Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 21 minutes ago, Wildbill said: The liberals will NEVER invest in our sport Yes, and we need to fix that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreyboater Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I will ride in Ontario and support OFSC, we have bad winter, but it's not a reason to run away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveB Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 The first thing that needs to be done is fix the issues within the OFSC. It is a broken system where clubs dictate to the association. It is a classic case of the tail wagging the dog. Once there is direction going to the clubs on how to manage the trails, groom them, etc. then maybe there can be fluidity with outside sources on funding. I do 90% of my sledding in PQ (yes I have passes for both provinces) for a reason, the province caters to snowmobilers. It starts with the trails being groomed wide and smooth (never disappointed), trails signs are well in advance of sharp turns, jumps and dips, warm up huts along the trails, and signs close to towns indicating fuel, hotels, etc. The OFSC (IMO) should raise the trail fees to meet their needs to be inline with Quebec. If Quebec can offer insurance why not Ontario. Have trail wardens out that have the authority to fine (on the spot) any sled without a trail pass (like Quebec). Here is an interesting note: Quebec will groom trails based on the amount of snow fall OR the hours of use on their trail system. This is dictated by the association NOT the individual clubs discretion as in Ontario. We have all ridden the Ontario trails and wondered why they are in such terrible shape. I am not trying to indicate this is a club issue (lack of funds) or the association issue but it is an issue and needs to be fixed. Tourism dollars (gas stations, restaurants, hotels, dealers - sleds, trucks and trailers, clothing, etc.) is so dependant on snowmobilers in both provinces but Ontario is missing the infrastructure that connects the industry to the government for additional support. The association cannot go to the government with their "hat on their hand" asking for money without a structured business plan in place. The Ontario system is broken and has been so for a long time. Sorry about the rant but Ontario can learn from Quebec on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Nows the chance to get a new conservative leader in place and hope they win in the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, SteveB said: It is a broken system where clubs dictate to the association What association is it that you think the clubs dictate to? Your comments seem to indicate that you don't understand the OFSC / Districts/ Club working relationship under the present system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baylaker Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Definitely going to Quebec next year! Good for them! Now why can’t ontario get that kind of money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevey Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Its called 'transfer payments'. lol MS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR SLEDHEAD Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 What they are accomplishing in Quebec is impressive. Kudo's to all involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Wildbill said: The liberals will NEVER invest in our sport Now come on, let's be fair. They are going to fix the climate issues with carbon pricing and the green energy crap, so I'm sure that very soon we'll have 6 months of winter ( with snow) so in a round about way they are investing in our sport. Right? Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskoka cat guy Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 have to go to the OFSC Annual meeting I am wondering if they will allow us to speak One thing you can do is too get the local MP MPP for northern Ontario involved like they did with Bill 100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 You cannot compare Quebecs approach to Ontarios. The history and interest is entirely different especially considering Bombardiers HUGE political influence in Canada as a whole. Plus Quebec ran their credit into the gutter over ten years ago and are midway through a restructuring phase. Ontario? Is skidding the BOTTOM in terms of financial well being in fact it is GLOBALLY the single worst and most indebted no sovereign place in the world. Complete financial disaster so provincial money? Will have HUGE strings attached similar to communism at this point. Good credit, is long gone. What we can do is get a NEW government that respects Ontarios rural and Northern peoples and the lifestyles that go with it. Then we can work on improving the financials through restructuring and improving business climate to welcome investment.That much, we can, and should do. Heres the rub. Considering how RELENTLESS the Ontario Liberals have been to run amok with regulation, red tape, feees and DEBT burden on citizens and industry in Ontario? Would you invest here? Think anyone in America or England is gouing to invest with extorionist "change the operating costs at will" people? Because the sad fact is, even a new government does not quickly erase such a reputation. It will take a lot of time, and effort to improve the appeal of business and economic growth in Ontario again. These Libs cooked the goose, shredded the down, and made everyone suck on the crap hole and had the audacity to 'brand' this pipe as benficial for the "greater good" Who are these greater good exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveB Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 In response to "Piston Lake Cruisers" comment, the working relationship between the OFSC and the clubs/districts (CD) is flawed at the present time. There is a true disconnect between the governing body (OFSC) and the CD. There does not appear to be any type of direction being sent to the clubs on how the OFSC wants each CD to be managed. If there is the CD's are not responding to the associations requests on how THEY want the CD to be run or managed. I understand the CD's are made up of volunteers and the only paid position is with the groomers themselves. Every CD is using their own discretion as to when to groom or not, hence the conditions of the trails. The only thing a paid trail pass sledder cares about is the conditions of the trails. Current CD comprise of president, vice, president, etc. etc. and wants or thinks they know who to manage the district or even understand the needs of the snowmobiler and are not willing to take direction from a single source. This is why the OFSC system is broken and has been so for so long. To many egos not willing to listen or take direction. Anyone that has gone to Quebec and sledded has come back and said the experience was outstanding. It is like trying to compare skiing at Blue Mountain to Whistler. There simply is no comparison on how the two different provinces approach snowmobiling and tourism. This has far more reaching impact than how one CD wants to run its SHOW. The big picture is tourism and commerce and it is hard for some people to understand this or maybe they do not want to even try to understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I have ALWAYS enjoyed the northern corridor du nord here in ontario. IMO the best trails the province has to offer. Spent 4 days in quebec last week, and although i enjoyed it and we rode 1400kms in 3.5 days, i am not dying to go back. Id rather ride northern ontario and be done with it.. Just my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poo Man Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I think that the idea of the government helping is a lost cause. I do think that the ofsc needs to be more engaged with its permit buyer's who fund the damn thing and be more transparent. If prices need to go up to get to a much better level than so be it, but the way it is currently run honestly I dont know if I would be willing to spend more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveB Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 POO Man, government funding is alive and well. There is plenty of funds available IF you know where to look and how to apply for it. The application process can be gruelling and political but the rewards are there. The process to apply for funding has to come from the OFSC not the clubs or districts. Therefore you need some professional talent within the OFSC to gain access to these funds. Currently the OFSC has directional issues as well as the clubs, this is not a one sided problem. There are paid positions within the OFSC but without being privileged to job responsibilities it is hard to comment on responsibilities for who does what. At this time it does not appear there is a person engaged in government relations within. This also holds true for district/club relations positions. If the OFSC does not have a person at the top with a clear and defined vision on direction for the industry, how to get there and what is needed to get there, then the whole organization is in trouble which will be filtering down to the clubs. Change starts at the OFSC level and the change required is a total restructure of the OFSC. This is evident by the way the current organization is managed. There needs to be accountability and responsibility attached to the OFSC paid positions. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Crow said: Now come on, let's be fair. They are going to fix the climate issues with carbon pricing and the green energy crap, so I'm sure that very soon we'll have 6 months of winter ( with snow) so in a round about way they are investing in our sport. Right? Lol. They need to double or maybe triple the carbon tax to accomplish that... taking more money from us to throw away will cure everything. Really though... I have long maintained the biggest challenge we have is the time it takes to do anything. What's it been now?, a year + that there has been a committee to revamp Trail Patrol? What have they accomplished? Beats me and I keep asking OFSC for updates. Then there is any changes in general. Typical timeline.... a club member sees an opportunity do something so much more effectively. He comes up with the late in the 2018 season. First it takes a month or two to sell it to his club executive. Once they are on board he then has to get on the agenda for a district meeting. He may have to wait a couple of months for that since it's now summer and meetings are sparse. There's no way it can be brought forward in time to be on the agenda for AGM in the fall of 2018. Then a presentation at the district meeting probably after the AGM in the fall. Some agree, some don't and some need to think about it. A few more months pass as the club representatives at the district meeting take the idea back to their clubs for discussion. Now the 2019 season is underway. The subject is now on the agenda again for the district. They agree that the opportunity has merit and they work to have it on the agenda for the AGM in the fall of 2019. At AGM they strike a committee to review the opportunity and report back during the 2020 AGM. The report is favourable and a vote to implement passes at the 2020 AGM. Now the clubs have to implement the changes and that now takes time as they discuss how to manage the implementation effectively. It is now mid season. Some clubs have implemented the changes others are working on it. All clubs are fully on board just in time for the 2021 season Any business that worked this way would go under. Business and the OFSC is a business needs to be agile. They are not. By the time they get around to reacting to a need the need has either gone away or changed dramatically. Imagine a business taking as long to get a user facing system such as the ITG working and still not got it where it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 To the idgits currently in Queens Park, snowmobiling is 1) a bunch of idgits that keep going thru the ice or running into trees 2) not green so it doesn't fit their narrative. Since the MTO became involved w/ just the trail permit has any benefit been received from the province? The Ministry of Tourism loves to promote snowmobiling in the province, but the MNR is a hindrance of immence proportions when clubs have to reroute a trail on Crown Land or bridge even the smallest body of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 9 hours ago, SteveB said: In response to "Piston Lake Cruisers" comment, the working relationship between the OFSC and the clubs/districts (CD) is flawed at the present time. There is a true disconnect between the governing body (OFSC) and the CD. There does not appear to be any type of direction being sent to the clubs on how the OFSC wants each CD to be managed. If there is the CD's are not responding to the associations requests on how THEY want the CD to be run or managed. I understand the CD's are made up of volunteers and the only paid position is with the groomers themselves. Every CD is using their own discretion as to when to groom or not, hence the conditions of the trails. The only thing a paid trail pass sledder cares about is the conditions of the trails. Current CD comprise of president, vice, president, etc. etc. and wants or thinks they know who to manage the district or even understand the needs of the snowmobiler and are not willing to take direction from a single source. This is why the OFSC system is broken and has been so for so long. To many egos not willing to listen or take direction. Anyone that has gone to Quebec and sledded has come back and said the experience was outstanding. It is like trying to compare skiing at Blue Mountain to Whistler. There simply is no comparison on how the two different provinces approach snowmobiling and tourism. This has far more reaching impact than how one CD wants to run its SHOW. The big picture is tourism and commerce and it is hard for some people to understand this or maybe they do not want to even try to understand it. steve, who do you think is better educated on when and what should be groomed... the club, and district with eyes, and boots on the ground on their trails, or a paid ofsc "manager" in Barrie, "thinking they know what is better for a district or club?" this isn't one size fits all. traffic, weather, snow depth, geography, all play into when, and how much you can groom. the geographic differences alone are mind boggling. close all trails, groom all trails, when, and for how long? your blue mountain to whistler comparison doesnt fit either... great lakes/Midwest to mountain west geography. two totally different animals, and experiences await. Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTC Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 The clubs and their volunteers are the backbone to organized sledding in Ontario and are usually the ones with the common sense to decide when to groom not some ofsc paid manager or pencil pusher! I dont think Quebec is much different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomo Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 9 hours ago, SteveB said: There is plenty of funds available IF you know where to look and how to apply for it. The application process can be gruelling and political but the rewards are there. The process to apply for funding has to come from the OFSC not the clubs or districts. Therefore you need some professional talent within the OFSC to gain access to these funds. ...... At this time it does not appear there is a person engaged in government relations within. Exactly. This and the many partnerships that might be developed - have laid this out to various marketing concerns who may be interested in the OFSC contract when the current contract is up for renewal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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