RAMSOMAIR Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Sleds are a dying sport unfortunately. Put you development where money can be recuperated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 The tech and money has always been in the mountain segment that trickled down to trail sleds as applicable, and with none or most of us not living in mountain regions, is it really dead or dying - who can comment on what has been seen in the mountains and if they are seeing the decline like the trail side of things? I do not think it is dying, just becoming something a smaller demographic can afford and do for a shorter window, so manufactures will or should limit their offerings to the trail segment based on that. Most large corporation are all about market share, even when it may not make financial sense - although I think that mentality has changed over the years, just look at Yamaha, will Cat be next....with a new chassis just finally released, I do not think so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyr Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Polaris buying Cat? Not a chance unless it is basically a gift from Textron. What does Cat bring to the table? Other than some dedicated customers, really nothing. I bet that if Cat folded, Polaris would get 75% of the Cat customers for free. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderman Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 56 minutes ago, stoney said: The tech and money has always been in the mountain segment that trickled down to trail sleds as applicable, and with none or most of us not living in mountain regions, is it really dead or dying - who can comment on what has been seen in the mountains and if they are seeing the decline like the trail side of things? I do not think it is dying, just becoming something a smaller demographic can afford and do for a shorter window, so manufactures will or should limit their offerings to the trail segment based on that. Most large corporation are all about market share, even when it may not make financial sense - although I think that mentality has changed over the years, just look at Yamaha, will Cat be next....with a new chassis just finally released, I do not think so. Lol, that's dying........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderman Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 37 minutes ago, scottyr said: Polaris buying Cat? Not a chance unless it is basically a gift from Textron. What does Cat bring to the table? Other than some dedicated customers, really nothing. I bet that if Cat folded, Polaris would get 75% of the Cat customers for free. Cat owners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ox Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 1 hour ago, stoney said: The tech and money has always been in the mountain segment that trickled down to trail sleds as applicable, and with none or most of us not living in mountain regions, is it really dead or dying - who can comment on what has been seen in the mountains and if they are seeing the decline like the trail side of things? I do not think it is dying, just becoming something a smaller demographic can afford and do for a shorter window, so manufactures will or should limit their offerings to the trail segment based on that. Most large corporation are all about market share, even when it may not make financial sense - although I think that mentality has changed over the years, just look at Yamaha, will Cat be next....with a new chassis just finally released, I do not think so. There wasn't even such a thing as a "Mountain" segment until the mid 90's. Let alone it "always" being the tech leader. Yeah, the last 10+ years it seem to have been, but not historically. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 A low buck fun ripper sled would sell a ton. Something like the old school et250, light, fast enough, and fun to zoom around for 4K. I bet that would outsell every other sled model combined. Who wouldnt buy one? Then the people who get introduced into the sled world who otherwise wouldnt bother become hooked and upgrade. Heck 3K sled or something utterly crazy cheap would really shake things up and light the sport afire again. Just my 0.02 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 39 minutes ago, Spiderman said: Lol, that's dying........ "shrinking" is the term I prefer to use......lol Just looking at glass half full! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 25 minutes ago, Ox said: There wasn't even such a thing as a "Mountain" segment until the mid 90's. Let alone it "always" being the tech leader. Yeah, the last 10+ years it seem to have been, but not historically. . Always was the wrong term, but in the last couple of decades, its been the testing platform for most of the newer technologies - I assumed because that was where the manufactures see their biggest return?!?!?! Not sure what the sales numbers are for mountain sleds vs. trail sleds, TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 39 minutes ago, Spiderman said: Cat owners Just needs to be wearing the leathers! 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ox Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 55 minutes ago, crispy said: A low buck fun ripper sled would sell a ton. Something like the old school et250, light, fast enough, and fun to zoom around for 4K. I bet that would outsell every other sled model combined. Who wouldnt buy one? Then the people who get introduced into the sled world who otherwise wouldnt bother become hooked and upgrade. Heck 3K sled or something utterly crazy cheap would really shake things up and light the sport afire again. Just my 0.02 cents B/c they can't sell a very high % of sleds with cardboardmeters anymore. They apparently need to have a high$ fuel infection system to pass emissions. So, they can make a few low buck sleds, but not many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baylaker Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 I guess I’ll be keeping my 18’ viper…I know what I have hahaha! I don’t think the yami engine will fit in that new cat chassis, most likely just one of the reasons they threw in the towel… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ox Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 42 minutes ago, Baylaker said: I guess I’ll be keeping my 18’ viper…I know what I have Yamahahaha! I don’t think the yami engine will fit in that new cat chassis, most likely just one of the reasons they threw in the towel… Fixed it for yuh. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamforlife Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 4 hours ago, stoney said: Just needs to be wearing the leathers! One of my favourite snowmobile videos.......hhhaaaa. sounds like me...hhhhhaaaa on a rant!!! Total champ episode....with Tourettes!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 This was predictable the day that Yamaha quit building their own sleds. As for atv and side by side the traditional manufacturersare getting beat up big time. Yamaha Polaris and Cat as well as BRP are not seeing the growth other companies are. The outboard world is owned by Mercury right now. Yamahamay be refocusing to be stronger in the larger areas . Our sport is not growing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sksman Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Would Polaris purchase Yamaha made engines to add a 4 stroke to the line up? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signfan Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Not likely. They have their own suite of 4 stroke engines already they could utilize if they chose to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sksman Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, signfan said: Not likely. They have their own suite of 4 stroke engines already they could utilize if they chose to. Yes they have their own 4 stroke line up. but would Polaris have better purchasing power then Arctic Cat and would purchasing Yamaha motors be a good business decision in terms of sales that Polaris could gain on BRP based on market recognition? If Yamaha is willing to produce the engine and Polaris can guarantee “x” units based on current market share and demand for a 4 stroke it may be a wise purchase. Maybe Polaris can guarantee a larger number of engines than Arctic Cat could? It all relates to best business decision for the brands. Maybe the engine does not even fit in Polaris chassis. I have no clue Just guessing at things as rain falls outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Farmer Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 14 hours ago, Sksman said: Yes they have their own 4 stroke line up. but would Polaris have better purchasing power then Arctic Cat and would purchasing Yamaha motors be a good business decision in terms of sales that Polaris could gain on BRP based on market recognition? If Yamaha is willing to produce the engine and Polaris can guarantee “x” units based on current market share and demand for a 4 stroke it may be a wise purchase. Maybe Polaris can guarantee a larger number of engines than Arctic Cat could? It all relates to best business decision for the brands. Maybe the engine does not even fit in Polaris chassis. I have no clue Just guessing at things as rain falls outside. Yamaha and Polaris won’t work together. Polaris is gaining market share last few years. Light weight and powerful two stroke engines are very popular. Mattix is very well handling I hear. They cant even build enough 650’s for 2024 model year it seems. I love to get my hands on one for this season. remember Polaris also builds motor cycles too so they are no stranger to 4 stroke engine builds. When I grew up almost every family around me had a sled or two. it’s weather thsts biggest factor. If we had 3 months of solid winter in south the industry would be strong and most familys would have a snowmobile or two. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyr Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 On 6/30/2023 at 10:38 PM, Wildbill said: The outboard world is owned by Mercury right now. Yamahamay be refocusing to be stronger in the larger areas . Our sport is not growing Yamaha is actually the #1 Outboard Manufacturer world wide with approx 40% market share. That being said, Suzuki is the fastest growing company. I know a lot of guys switching to Suzuki and they love them. Maybe Yamaha feels its time to spend some money updating their outboards to keep that #1 spot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAT RIDER Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 We use Yamaha outboards on our boats at work, not as high tech as Mercs, but very reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyr Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 2 hours ago, CAT RIDER said: We use Yamaha outboards on our boats at work, not as high tech as Mercs, but very reliable. I have a Yamaha on my pontoon. Its as reliable as a hammer but its slow for the rated hp. . If I could have spec'ed the boat out exactly as I wanted it I would have put a Suzuki on it. I had a Merc on our old toon and it performed well but was noisy and rattled around like a 25 year old motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMSOMAIR Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Is your prop pitched correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Farmer Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 On 7/3/2023 at 9:18 AM, scottyr said: Yamaha is actually the #1 Outboard Manufacturer world wide with approx 40% market share. That being said, Suzuki is the fastest growing company. I know a lot of guys switching to Suzuki and they love them. Maybe Yamaha feels its time to spend some money updating their outboards to keep that #1 spot. That’s what I thought too. One reason brp gave up on out boards, almost dead last with etec’s. funny they gave Yamaha more outboard market share now yammie is returning favour by stoping sled production. If all we have left is brp and Polaris soon it’s going to be an even more expensive sport. might be some good deals on remaining yammie’s though, since trade in value later will be weak I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 On 7/3/2023 at 12:31 AM, Strong Farmer said: Yamaha and Polaris won’t work together. Polaris is gaining market share last few years. Light weight and powerful two stroke engines are very popular. Mattix is very well handling I hear. They cant even build enough 650’s for 2024 model year it seems. I love to get my hands on one for this season. remember Polaris also builds motor cycles too so they are no stranger to 4 stroke engine builds. When I grew up almost every family around me had a sled or two. it’s weather thsts biggest factor. If we had 3 months of solid winter in south the industry would be strong and most familys would have a snowmobile or two. Polaris no longer builds motorcycles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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