Riding North out of Searchmont without Halfway

[Spiderman]

30 minutes ago, stoney said:

Removing the plowing piece and you have a better shot at it.

But you still need weekly food supplies & hired help to get there as well.

Could flying supplies in be a cost effective option.

 

I think this was discussed, but would a modern plow/snow blower attachment not make road maintenance less of a huge task?

 

We stayed at what I consider a nice hunt camp in QC last year, it was on an island and they needed to barge their stuff over, groom their own trail to the camp through the bush and across the lake, etc, etc.....on leased land, like most of them are, and they seem to make it work.

They had been slowly improving all the cabins as well, making things better, more efficient, newer gas heaters, etc......,

There fees for hunting season were not cheap, but sounds like on par with others for off season business.....I do not recall what we paid for the night, but all things considering that included the cabin, fuel, dinner, breakfast, etc......I do not think it was more than the norm.

 

How or what makes things so much different for them compared to a place like HH in what I would say are in the same type of area/enviroment?

 

 

could be completely smoke and mirrors - there is making making it work - and then there is making a living from making it work.

 

I just can't see it making any financial sense for an independent operator 

 

 

[stoney]

8 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

 

could be completely smoke and mirrors - there is making making it work - and then there is making a living from making it work.

 

I just can't see it making any financial sense for an independent operator 

 

 

 

Sure - but if they are scraping by, I think you will see it.

Sledding or winter season for them, I do not think is where it makes "cents", it is keeping the doors open and the wheels greased during this season - I think it is the hunting and other offering they have the rest of the year, that makes it work.....and that might be the big difference, or maybe grants from the QC province for these tourist business, etc.... 

[Sksman]

How many sledders would visit HH in a season?

 

How many stay overnight?

[Rich Saul]

I personally think that the biggest problem is staffing the place.

Been to hh a number of times. 

A couple times seems more dramatic than nessary from the e staff.

But that my observation..

Still quite a challenge.  But you took it on. Continue.  Or sell it..

[skidooboy]

1 hour ago, Rich Saul said:

I personally think that the biggest problem is staffing the place.

Been to hh a number of times. 

A couple times seems more dramatic than nessary from the e staff.

But that my observation..

Still quite a challenge.  But you took it on. Continue.  Or sell it..

 

No, it is getting fuel to the location, and having that fuel for the sledding riders that arrive there daily. Really, you only need a couple that works well together, and a handyman, and maybe a 4th, to make a go of it. someone to cook/serve/clean up, someone to fix things, and pump fuel, and a helper/fill in. In the hey days, there would be hundreds of sleds coming through daily on the weekends. at the time almost everyone took 10 gallons. doesnt take much to empty a 1000 gallon tank. filling a large tank with 5 gallon cans, or whatever type of storage device you could pull in on a sled, groomer etc... would take forever and be a logistical, and environmental permit nightmare. Remember Steve, Gail, and another couple (if I remember right) did it for years, just with their small group. the biggest problem is, the logistics to keep the road open, safe, and wide enough to get a fuel tanker to their location.

 

I am with Ox I dont think there should be any grants, bailouts, or extra funds given to a business, trying to make a profit, in this situation. 

Ski

[Spiderman]

10 hours ago, skidooboy said:

 

No, it is getting fuel to the location, and having that fuel for the sledding riders that arrive there daily. Really, you only need a couple that works well together, and a handyman, and maybe a 4th, to make a go of it. someone to cook/serve/clean up, someone to fix things, and pump fuel, and a helper/fill in. In the hey days, there would be hundreds of sleds coming through daily on the weekends. at the time almost everyone took 10 gallons. doesnt take much to empty a 1000 gallon tank. filling a large tank with 5 gallon cans, or whatever type of storage device you could pull in on a sled, groomer etc... would take forever and be a logistical, and environmental permit nightmare. Remember Steve, Gail, and another couple (if I remember right) did it for years, just with their small group. the biggest problem is, the logistics to keep the road open, safe, and wide enough to get a fuel tanker to their location.

 

I am with Ox I dont think there should be any grants, bailouts, or extra funds given to a business, trying to make a profit, in this situation. 

Ski

And the amount of people who have the passion for the lifestyle, enjoy that kind of work, and are willing to dedicate that amount of time and effort to make peanuts ,if anything,  are very few and far between.

 

[stoney]

11 hours ago, skidooboy said:

 

No, it is getting fuel to the location, and having that fuel for the sledding riders that arrive there daily. Really, you only need a couple that works well together, and a handyman, and maybe a 4th, to make a go of it. someone to cook/serve/clean up, someone to fix things, and pump fuel, and a helper/fill in. In the hey days, there would be hundreds of sleds coming through daily on the weekends. at the time almost everyone took 10 gallons. doesnt take much to empty a 1000 gallon tank. filling a large tank with 5 gallon cans, or whatever type of storage device you could pull in on a sled, groomer etc... would take forever and be a logistical, and environmental permit nightmare. Remember Steve, Gail, and another couple (if I remember right) did it for years, just with their small group. the biggest problem is, the logistics to keep the road open, safe, and wide enough to get a fuel tanker to their location.

 

I am with Ox I dont think there should be any grants, bailouts, or extra funds given to a business, trying to make a profit, in this situation. 

Ski

 

The camp I mentioned above is just that - a family with a couple of kids and another guy that may be related or a friend that is the "handy man".

There is another remote place we have stayed at in QC that is similar, but I am pretty sees a lot more people year round, so they bring in a couple of workers for 2 to 3 week stints to work & stay there.

 

1 hour ago, Spiderman said:

And the amount of people who have the passion for the lifestyle, enjoy that kind of work, and are willing to dedicate that amount of time and effort to make peanuts ,if anything,  are very few and far between.

 

 

I think this is a generational thing and money too of course - there were more people that have retired willing to do this and I think they also use to see a better return.

Next generation is not as inclined to do so, especially when they see what the return might be.

Add to the fact you are dealing with more and more people that are not as kind as people once were.

[Spiderman]

17 minutes ago, stoney said:

 

The camp I mentioned above is just that - a family with a couple of kids and another guy that may be related or a friend that is the "handy man".

There is another remote place we have stayed at in QC that is similar, but I am pretty sees a lot more people year round, so they bring in a couple of workers for 2 to 3 week stints to work & stay there.

 

 

I think this is a generational thing and money too of course - there were more people that have retired willing to do this and I think they also use to see a better return.

Next generation is not as inclined to do so, especially when they see what the return might be.

Add to the fact you are dealing with more and more people that are not as kind as people once were.

 

And more and more regulations to everything and anything you need to run those kinds of places, which are insanely costly - with returns the same as they always have been.

 

Its tough, and we're lucky to have anything like those places in this day and age

[skidooboy]

 

To make it work, you need people like the QC family mentioned, living onsite year round, wanting that lifestyle. Once you have that, then you figure out how to shorten the drive for fuel delivery, or make the roadway better, and more capable for year round delivery. But, the investment in machinery to do this plus maintenance on those machines makes it cost inefficient, for your return on the investment. Yes, many people will come to you, and sometimes be overwhelming, and remember this is all seasonal... but in reality, how much profit can you make on fuel, burgers, soup, and a place to sleep, when your power is provided by a diesel generator, that needs maintenance and replacing too? Karen and Gary at Flame Lake Lodge Had 2 diesel gennies one to run the place, and one as back up, and in the process of rebuilding, and they swapped back and forth to prolong those items. this was before they added solar, and wind power Battery systems. In the case for halfway, solar would be a bad option for 7-8 months out of the year (grey, lots of clouds). Wind wouldn't be great either considering the location in the middle of the two canyon ("mountains") Algoma, and Agawa, in a low land area. 

 

The best thing that could happen is to hire a logging company to make the road better, & petition the power company/govt, to put a transfer station in, to get your power from the grid (they are basically below the hydro line but, cant access the power). Then buy a decent used grader, and keep the road open in the winter yourself. If you cant do that, it isnt even worth trying... It will just keep opening and closing, over and over.   Ski

[scottyr]

I think the advent of Linq cans probably put a big of a damper on the place as anything.  

 

If you can carry 10L of fuel on your sled you dont NEED to stop there for fuel.    

 

Same thing is happening to BC Abitibi.    

 

 

[stoney]

19 hours ago, scottyr said:

I think the advent of Linq cans probably put a big of a damper on the place as anything.  

 

If you can carry 10L of fuel on your sled you dont NEED to stop there for fuel.    

 

Same thing is happening to BC Abitibi.    

 

 

Yep, being able to carry some gas with ease sure makes the day and rides like this one so much less concerning. 

[Strong Farmer]

On 10/6/2023 at 3:28 PM, scottyr said:

I think the advent of Linq cans probably put a big of a damper on the place as anything.  

 

If you can carry 10L of fuel on your sled you dont NEED to stop there for fuel.    

 

Same thing is happening to BC Abitibi.    

 

 

Good  weather it won’t be a problem with 10L of gas. Bad weather it might not be enough if you get a burst of fresh snow and drifts. Group ride have to take turns breaking trail to make it. Half way was safety net. Get fuel bite to it and wait it out. 

[RAMSOMAIR]

With 300hp on tap I NEED to stop there lol.

[scottyr]

1 hour ago, Strong Farmer said:

Good  weather it won’t be a problem with 10L of gas. Bad weather it might not be enough if you get a burst of fresh snow and drifts. Group ride have to take turns breaking trail to make it. Half way was safety net. Get fuel bite to it and wait it out. 

 

That can happen for sure but 95% of the time, a full Linq can will get you from Chapleau to Wawa.    That being said, the last time I did this run we were pushing a ton of snow from Chapleau until the trail headed north to Wawa.    Then it was bumpy AF.  Truthfully, not a ride I am just rushing to do again.    

 

 

[skidooboy]

95% of the time is probably stretching it, unless you are talking 4 stroke sleds built in the last 3-5 years. Then still, some (most) 2 strokes, will still be short on fuel, in many cases. I dont think our 2018 High Country 800's could make the run from wawa to chapleau with 3 extra gallons. I know it wouldnt make it from wawa or chapleau to goulais or heyden, with just 3 extra. For me, it is a been there done that, we've done it, and with the chance of an issue in there with no stop, or safety net, I just choose to avoid the area but, that is using the ole noggin, and understanding the risk management, and sled/rider limitations. It is a great area dont get me wrong but, there are better, easier, and safer access places to ride to/through. your results may vary. Ski

[signfan]

Any updates on the Dubreuville area.  Did the new trail north to Hornepayne get finished?  Any chance things will get opened to the west to be able to run to Marathon?  

[skidooboy]

I believe the rough grading is done from the warm up shack on the big overlook hill, to the Warm up shack near the halfway point at the Kabi river, from Dub. It will need to be signed, and final brush, trim, groom etc... It should be good to go from dub north, for season. The west route has a lot of logging close to Dub (rd12) and the loggers say they will play nice, then tell us no, and dig up the groomed trail. Mostly because sledders ride the road instead of the trail. So, we are our own worst enemy. There are beaver, water issues at near, and west of Hammer Lake (Fishing Moose Lodge), to White River. there is no White River club, only the Marathon people, and the Fishing Moose couple. Marathon has a lot of trail, and have worked and connected to Manitouwadge but, with all that, White River east to Dub doesnt get the attention it needs to be a stellar trail, due to budget, manpower,  and time. Hope this helps. Ski 

[Strong Farmer]

On 10/7/2023 at 5:03 PM, scottyr said:

 

That can happen for sure but 95% of the time, a full Linq can will get you from Chapleau to Wawa.    That being said, the last time I did this run we were pushing a ton of snow from Chapleau until the trail headed north to Wawa.    Then it was bumpy AF.  Truthfully, not a ride I am just rushing to do again.    

 

 

If you take short cut near cheapleai can shave off 16 km’s I think it was. Lots. Run sheapard Morse road that is un plowed about 1 km past moose horn lodge. It’s always a well packed goat trail. It meets trail at end of road. 

[Gadgetman]

Question: Doing 2 nights at Moose Horn Lodge in Feb, with a day trip down to Searchmount and back to Moose Horn; next day to Wawa and Duberville. Anyone know the distance (miles or KM (I can convert)), from Moose Horn (or Chapleau worst case) to Searchmount and is there fuel at Searchmount?  (All 4S, and we will be carrying fuel.)

Thanks

[Strong Farmer]

1 hour ago, Gadgetman said:

Question: Doing 2 nights at Moose Horn Lodge in Feb, with a day trip down to Searchmount and back to Moose Horn; next day to Wawa and Duberville. Anyone know the distance (miles or KM (I can convert)), from Moose Horn (or Chapleau worst case) to Searchmount and is there fuel at Searchmount?  (All 4S, and we will be carrying fuel.)

Thanks

All I remember is if you follow road from moose horn down to trail you save 16 km’s heading towards chapleau. I burned about 10L to halfway from moose using short cut I think it was just over 40 miles from lodge to halfway then another 85 miles to wawa or somthing like that. We took trail 5 and by passed it, last time with good hard packed trail conditions. That day we could have made wawa without filling up at halfway but bought 10L and skipped wawa that day and went straight to dub. You can also take the lake but I wouldn’t do it without knowing conditions at the time, instead of road. That keep you from back tracking too. Shepard morses road ends at trail. Only plowed a km or so past moose horn, but sides are usually iced up. Wide Goat trail after plowed section ends at trail. 

[skidooboy]

2 hours ago, Gadgetman said:

Question: Doing 2 nights at Moose Horn Lodge in Feb, with a day trip down to Searchmount and back to Moose Horn; next day to Wawa and Duberville. Anyone know the distance (miles or KM (I can convert)), from Moose Horn (or Chapleau worst case) to Searchmount and is there fuel at Searchmount?  (All 4S, and we will be carrying fuel.)

Thanks

 

Paging @AC+YA  He will know your mileages for sure. 

 

Ski

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

15 hours ago, Gadgetman said:

Question: Doing 2 nights at Moose Horn Lodge in Feb, with a day trip down to Searchmount and back to Moose Horn; next day to Wawa and Duberville. Anyone know the distance (miles or KM (I can convert)), from Moose Horn (or Chapleau worst case) to Searchmount and is there fuel at Searchmount?  (All 4S, and we will be carrying fuel.)

Thanks

There is no fuel station at Searchmount. The only way to get fuel there is to arrange with the gentleman at Driftwood Lodge to have some full jerry cans there for you when you arrive if he will. Its been a while since I've heard of him doing this. The fellow there to talk to is Carl.

Goulais River is the closest gas ther and its about 30 km. west of Searchmout I believe.

[Strong Farmer]

Sign near halfway heaven so it be close to 130 km’s from half way to chapleau. 

[Gadgetman]

On 10/25/2023 at 10:03 AM, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

There is no fuel station at Searchmount. The only way to get fuel there is to arrange with the gentleman at Driftwood Lodge to have some full jerry cans there for you when you arrive if he will. Its been a while since I've heard of him doing this. The fellow there to talk to is Carl.

Goulais River is the closest gas ther and its about 30 km. west of Searchmout I believe.

Thank you. I'll plan a trip out and back on 1 tank of fuel in this case.