Lep Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 We all know the out come when tracks are showing up on closed trails...happens every yr BUT now landowner's are taking action. We all have read/heard the actions that have been going on province wide and this is not new business, the Mags and OFSC has been have been educating us the last few yrs BUT nothing is sinking in...WHY. Snowmobile tracks on closed trails ====closed trail. Atv...PU/SUV on trail====closed trail. No Respect for crops etc ======closed trail. IF this keeps happening NO ONE to blame but our self's. What can we do.....open for opinions...…..IMO permit needs to up and this may cover some of the costs involved......minimum $1000 fine. Leaving this pinned for a while.....open for opinions please don't turn it into BS. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) Some offenders are merely ignorant, and can be corrected, but a percentage of people will break the rules in every aspect of life, regardless of the consequences. Edited December 19, 2019 by Blake G 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 The problem is bigger than us just watch how little respect there is and how much entitlement 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Education has a role to play for sure but it will not deal with the segment that simply don’t care. No matter how much you explain the consequences of their actions they won’t change their behaviours because there is no direct impact to them in the moment. to me, you will have to create a significant enough consequence in the moment to effect a change. That means fines (significant fines), impoundment of sleds, suspension of drivers licences and any other significant deterrent you can come up with. If you can have impoundments and suspensions for speeding or for blowing in the warning range, surely we can come up with something in the snowmobile world. enhanced enforcement will come with a cost. Both financial and otherwise. If permit prices go up, so be it. If we lose those riders on the margin that either don’t want to pay or don’t want to comply, so be it. What you have left is a group of riders that respect the rules and that’s something you can work with. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 You see it on the highways every day! I’m driving 120 kmh on 400 or 401 and guys blow by you as if you were standing still and repeatedly changing lanes in a very dangerous manner. One small miscue by someone not seeing them and life’s can be lost over this selfish and crazy behaviour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason T Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 My neighbor, purchased. 90 indy, I have no problem with that. I DO have a problem when he waits till dark, fires it up and heads out for a rip on the trails (95% private property). No permit, (last year and this year) no saw to at least cut and move a tree if he encounters one, etc. Not sure if he has insurance... what do you do? I have 2 doo's, permits, and last time I was out cleared some trail, now waiting for them to open. I'm no saint, ill take the kids out for a ride, sometimes on the trail, but I am tired of people sucking every free thing they can out of everything whether it be work, people's generosity, enjoying what others work there Butts off to make good for everyone to enjoy without ever lifting a finger or offering to help. Anyway, it's fustrating. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTC Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Most of these offenders in our area are out at night, and are unlikely permit holders. I do agree permit prices need to go up but it wont stop the ignorance. Convicted thieves get nothing but a free meal or 2, so what are they going to do with some idiot trespassers. Nothing Only answer is Baseball Bat Balaclava treatment 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MXZSlider Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 8 hours ago, GTC said: Most of these offenders in our area are out at night, and are unlikely permit holders. I do agree permit prices need to go up but it wont stop the ignorance. Convicted thieves get nothing but a free meal or 2, so what are they going to do with some idiot trespassers. Nothing Only answer is Baseball Bat Balaclava treatment See my post in "Rant of the Day" thread on this Speaking of convicted thieves.. seems to be quite a bit of post of machines starting to go missing lately on various FB Groups. Which.. leads me to wanna post another Rant or three Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Farmer Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) Really difficult to solve this. Been happening for years but seems to get worse as smaller towns grow in population. Our road has at lest 3 times the vehicle traffic now, then it had 15 years ago. We now have more four way stops and stop lights around as well. I see more atv’s sitting around in trucks and trailers now too, and see a far bit getting driven on side of roads even though Wilmot has a ban on them. Some enforcement would be nice and less police around, since new Hamburg department was shut down Bottom line if they are traveling roads you know some are using trail system, unfortunately. Edited December 20, 2019 by Strong Farmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Voyant Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Interesting thread, especially when I read a post in another thread from a member who says that a section of "red" on the ITG wouldn't stop him from riding. If you're a volunteer with a club I think it's imperative that you (we) lead by example. Every Driver Training class starts with an introduction about the OFSC, the club, what we do and the behaviour we expect from them when they hit the trails. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techdenis007 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Claire Voyant said: Interesting thread, especially when I read a post in another thread from a member who says that a section of "red" on the ITG wouldn't stop him from riding. If you're a volunteer with a club I think it's imperative that you (we) lead by example. Do you need a Snickers or something ? BTW .... would you please remind all of us where the aforementioned piece of trail happens to be, and who owns that particular property ? Thanks for that. Don't pi$$ on my fence, I'm electric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevester Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 41 minutes ago, Techdenis007 said: Do you need a Snickers or something ? BTW .... would you please remind all of us where the aforementioned piece of trail happens to be, and who owns that particular property ? Thanks for that. Don't pi$$ on my fence, I'm electric. Someone pissed on your cornflakes not your fence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Pics to shame them if you get them all over social media! HCSA did this a few weeks ago with 2 sleds parked in hali. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 44 minutes ago, Techdenis007 said: Do you need a Snickers or something ? BTW .... would you please remind all of us where the aforementioned piece of trail happens to be, and who owns that particular property ? Thanks for that. Don't pi$$ on my fence, I'm electric. Who needs a snickers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Voyant Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Techdenis007 said: Do you need a Snickers or something ? BTW .... would you please remind all of us where the aforementioned piece of trail happens to be, and who owns that particular property ? Thanks for that. Don't pi$$ on my fence, I'm electric. Really? You attend one training session and this makes you entitled? I think that attitude is kind of what we're talking about. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 On 12/18/2019 at 9:43 PM, Blake G said: Some offenders are merely ignorant, and can be corrected, but a percentage of people will break the rules in every aspect of life, regardless of the consequences. If the consequences hit their wallet hard enough they will pay attention. How about the laws being adapted to similar as those for illegal hunting and fishing. Get caught by a game warden and they have the authority to impound everything used during the violation pending a judge's decision. Get caught on a closed trail or trespassing off trail and the sled is impounded. It could be many months before a judge decides if you get it back 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MXZSlider Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 57 minutes ago, 02Sled said: If the consequences hit their wallet hard enough they will pay attention. How about the laws being adapted to similar as those for illegal hunting and fishing. Get caught by a game warden and they have the authority to impound everything used during the violation pending a judge's decision. This has been in effect for a few decades with Game Wardens. Not sure if it will come to fruition in regards to this platform however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtserider Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Claire Voyant said: Really? You attend one training session and this makes you entitled? I think that attitude is kind of what we're talking about. You are pissing up the wrong tree/fence.He has done nothing wrong. Do you think a groomer is going to head out on that trail before somebody has run it.Seen many of pictures of Dennis with a chainsaw in tow.Your belittling of a volunteer should doesn't help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MXZSlider Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 3 hours ago, gobills said: Pics to shame them if you get them all over social media! HCSA did this a few weeks ago with 2 sleds parked in hali. By the same token, there are those that go beyond what is lawful and take matters into their own hands keeping people off trails/private property. There has been a FB Group post/thread with video of a land owner who has inserted t-bars and wire to keep people out. OPP were called out and a lot of banter as to whether or not it was actually township or the owners property. Some of the comments are.. well, they'll make you shake your head. We'll leave it at that. Regardless of which it is, some folk are having enough of others lack of respect when it comes to crossing property lines or utilizing a trail that goes through their property that isnt officially opened by the OFSC. Do they need to go as far as t-bar and wire or worse? No absolutely NOT Someone is going to get seriously hurt or worse. The ensuing lawsuit and media fallout will make it even worse for those that abide by the laws. Regardless of whether you ride trails, power lines, powder or d-bang, there will always be a few who ruin it for the masses... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtserider Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 49 minutes ago, MXZSlider said: By the same token, there are those that go beyond what is lawful and take matters into their own hands keeping people off trails/private property. There has been a FB Group post/thread with video of a land owner who has inserted t-bars and wire to keep people out. OPP were called out and a lot of banter as to whether or not it was actually township or the owners property. Some of the comments are.. well, they'll make you shake your head. We'll leave it at that. Regardless of which it is, some folk are having enough of others lack of respect when it comes to crossing property lines or utilizing a trail that goes through their property that isnt officially opened by the OFSC. Do they need to go as far as t-bar and wire or worse? No absolutely NOT Someone is going to get seriously hurt or worse. The ensuing lawsuit and media fallout will make it even worse for those that abide by the laws. Regardless of whether you ride trails, power lines, powder or d-bang, there will always be a few who ruin it for the masses... Putting anything that is a hazard is ultimate grounds for a lawsuit,even on your OWN property.Snow fence and caution tape not so much.Unfortunately it doesn't work,nor do gates or properly signed barriers.Several high powered ATV/SXS can move one of those concrete barriers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamforlife Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 15 hours ago, 02Sled said: If the consequences hit their wallet hard enough they will pay attention. How about the laws being adapted to similar as those for illegal hunting and fishing. Get caught by a game warden and they have the authority to impound everything used during the violation pending a judge's decision. Get caught on a closed trail or trespassing off trail and the sled is impounded. It could be many months before a judge decides if you get it back Problem is .....there are not enough Game Wardens. Without feet on the ground nothing will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manotickmike Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 On 12/19/2019 at 10:39 PM, GTC said: Most of these offenders in our area are out at night, and are unlikely permit holders. I do agree permit prices need to go up but it wont stop the ignorance. Convicted thieves get nothing but a free meal or 2, so what are they going to do with some idiot trespassers. Nothing Only answer is Baseball Bat Balaclava treatment A little of this would go a long way. I was really surprised at the attention I got when I took matters into my own hands recently. It quickly escalated from a polite response to a 911 call, to 3 cars, and a follow up by the staff sergeant. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 This is a hard solve that has many factors. I dont really think its worse than earlier I think its less patience from land owners, and WAYYYY more exposure for each instance than before. For instance, a boon docking idiot could rip through a whole farm field ten years back and that farmer, area, and club are all aware but land owners 200km away didnt hear about it and because they had some years without issues? All good. Now a land owner posts up and EVERY land owner sees, relates to "that time when" and the anger boils across all land owners equally so the patience we used to get is GONE and gone for good. This exposure PR problem is the biggest issue with sledding, and ALL enjoyable motorized performance sports imo. The all watching eye of internet posting trolls is a huge wall of trouble and getting worse. As for the idiots doing these events? I agree its mostly a "dont give a rats about it" problem as well as a "bad boy look at me hold my beer" problem. Not new, just worse because 18 today? Behave more like 13 in my day. So it goes. Wish I had more to offer I really dont have much other than talk to these young fools and try and get some sense into em. It takes a village to raise a child and anger towards them? Will only make it worse imo. People seem to enjoy anger, blame and finger pointing more though. That said when I say talk? I aint talking fizzy bunnies and fluffly clouds either, just suggesting no baseball bats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 11 hours ago, crispy said: This is a hard solve that has many factors. I dont really think its worse than earlier I think its less patience from land owners, and WAYYYY more exposure for each instance than before. For instance, a boon docking idiot could rip through a whole farm field ten years back and that farmer, area, and club are all aware but land owners 200km away didnt hear about it and because they had some years without issues? All good. Now a land owner posts up and EVERY land owner sees, relates to "that time when" and the anger boils across all land owners equally so the patience we used to get is GONE and gone for good. This exposure PR problem is the biggest issue with sledding, and ALL enjoyable motorized performance sports imo. The all watching eye of internet posting trolls is a huge wall of trouble and getting worse. As for the idiots doing these events? I agree its mostly a "dont give a rats about it" problem as well as a "bad boy look at me hold my beer" problem. Not new, just worse because 18 today? Behave more like 13 in my day. So it goes. Wish I had more to offer I really dont have much other than talk to these young fools and try and get some sense into em. It takes a village to raise a child and anger towards them? Will only make it worse imo. People seem to enjoy anger, blame and finger pointing more though. That said when I say talk? I aint talking fizzy bunnies and fluffly clouds either, just suggesting no baseball bats. You're possibly right but I wonder about it. The social media circulating about these violations are by and large on snowmobile club and related media. Are these landowners in perhaps the Bruce Peninsula or the Orangeville area really paying attention to the social media snowmobiling occurrences of a club in the Ottawa or Sudbury areas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lep Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 43 minutes ago, 02Sled said: You're possibly right but I wonder about it. The social media circulating about these violations are by and large on snowmobile club and related media. Are these landowners in perhaps the Bruce Peninsula or the Orangeville area really paying attention to the social media snowmobiling occurrences of a club in the Ottawa or Sudbury areas? 02 do u know how many landowners that ride sleds....my own club deals with 57 landowners and guess what ever one rides a sled.atv.etc…why is the word getting out.... a large majority of land owners are farmers thru out the prov....so if one thinks its social media yes that's a part of it....how many landowners are members here,,,it may surprise some...plain and simple if enforcement with big fine's etc doesn't happen very soon 5yrs from down those 33k of trails we have now are going to shrink....big time. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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