Sasquatch777 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Thanks guys for clearing up some of these items. It's somewhat disturbing that we always come back to the same place. Money and volunteers. My wife and I have been a volunteers for many years in many different organizations we have 3 children and have supported them through all of their sports organizations and other activities. We have held executive positions in most of the organizations at any given time. I understand the burnout aspect. I also understand that in many cases volunteering comes at a cost. In most cases there is a monetary cost involved usually indirectly. I can see from your responses that you too have been heavily involved over the years and made these same investments. I am currently on the executive of our local Curling club and my role is to ensure the bar in staffed every night. Last year volunteers provided over 800 hrs of bar service plus at least another 250 hrs of my own time. We have 350 members. the service was provided by 28 members, most of which have other volunteer roles in the club. This is consistent with most other organizations we have volunteered with and snowmobiling is no different. I have been trying to get involved with our local snowmobile club but my other volunteer activities get in the way. So why do we do this. We invest valuable time and energy at no return, and then actually invest more money to volunteer than the guy that just sits back, pays his fees and then whines about the cost??? This is really screwed up. The "Haves" just want to pay for there fun and whine about the cost. The "have nots" are tired of doing all of the work for the Whining "Haves". We have had many discussions at our Curling Club regarding Volunteer recognition. What is the cost of volunteer recognition and when does it change from being "recognition" to be a "paid part time job". We can't find the answer either! What I do know is that the % of volunteers verses the % of users is extremely low. If there was a way of enticing more volunteers by recognition, possibly a reduced permit fee for a minimum amount of hours provided it would help. Society is changing. I think the new mentality is more of a "what's in it for me' attitude and as much as we don't like it we have to recognize that. The people that can afford it are more willing to just pay for play and let someone else do the work. I have never expected to gain anything in return for my time than a hand shake, a Thank You, and the feeling that I have contributed to the betterment of my family and community. Unfortunately that mentality is dwindling. So unless people want to do more, or expect less. Conversations like this will never end. The people that need to hear this aren't reading this anyways. They are likely out enjoying themselves while we try to figure out a solution. Yep so true! Volunteers are the reciepiants for complaints about everything! Yet we line up to volunteer again for another year! On here we are Arguing with those that get it for the most part! Some clubs do pay their volunteers but that kinda takes away from volunteer does'nt it? I just enjoy the volunteer landowner supper at the end of every year. But even to that I volunteer food along with everyone else, its what its all about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 You nailed it Ski. This is not about permit sales and where people want to ride, it's about survival. I have, like many of you, have been fortunate enough to see the existence of a trail system. It doesn't exist anymore. This year C101F was closed because Folyette didn't sell enough permits. Are you kidding? No one lives in Folyette. The same was true with Longlac. This is the reason we lost half-way; not having any concern for the greater good. I live here in the States and find it hard to believe that you no longer care about encouraging "us" to come up and spend our disposable income. It's rather insulting, like you're too good for us. What a shame! Ah Akron we still love ya! I retire this winter (Mid Feb last day) and next winter sledding becomes my life (as if it isn't now). You can come ride with me, I'll show you some wilderness trails. By the way I really appreiciate you wanting to buy a pass in the once Distric 16! Good on ya! Your heart is in the right place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white dragon Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I live here in the States and find it hard to believe that you no longer care about encouraging "us" to come up and spend our disposable income. It's rather insulting, like you're too good for us. What a shame! [/quote i sure hope you guys don't feel that way...we don't want to lose our sledders to the south...we need all sledders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 You nailed it Ski. This is not about permit sales and where people want to ride, it's about survival. I have, like many of you, have been fortunate enough to see the existence of a trail system. It doesn't exist anymore. This year C101F was closed because Folyette didn't sell enough permits. Are you kidding? No one lives in Folyette. The same was true with Longlac. This is the reason we lost half-way; not having any concern for the greater good. I live here in the States and find it hard to believe that you no longer care about encouraging "us" to come up and spend our disposable income. It's rather insulting, like you're too good for us. What a shame! Actually Folyette sold enough permits, they folded because there is no volunteers there willing to maintain the trails, and the distance is too far for other areas to pick up the slack. I believe the same was true for Longlac ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 there are a few on this forum stating that they and the ofsc's target market is not the tourists (many times). everytime i hear that, it makes me want to throw in the towel on organized sledding in ontario. what they fail to realize is... unless they ride direct from their doorway (not their cottage door), that most riders are tourists even if they are only from an hour, or two (or more) away. just because you are an ontario resident, doesnt mean you are not a tourist. the wife and i have been great supporters and recruiters for northern ontario. it saddens me to see the ENTIRE system going down, and people still not seeing the greater picture. Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucking Pig Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Actually Folyette sold enough permits, they folded because there is no volunteers there willing to maintain the trails, and the distance is too far for other areas to pick up the slack. I believe the same was true for Longlac ?Like I said, the "system" needs a new model if you want these trails through the smaller places. What that model is, I don't know. I think Longlac folded because there was nowhere to ride to anymore. The tourists can't get there and locals have no place to go. If you're a local, you can't see the point in buying a pass, never mind volunteering. Once you head down the vortex, it's tough to stop it. Maybe D16's demise is going to be the catalyst to fix the rest of the system, or maybe it's just the bleeding edge. There's already calls on here to cut D17 loose. Then what? D15? It's a long way to go too. Personally, I think if the OFSC cuts D17 loose, it will truly be the beginning of the end. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 there are a few on this forum stating that they and the ofsc's target market is not the tourists (many times). everytime i hear that, it makes me want to throw in the towel on organized sledding in ontario. what they fail to realize is... unless they ride direct from their doorway (not their cottage door), that most riders are tourists even if they are only from an hour, or two (or more) away. just because you are an ontario resident, doesnt mean you are not a tourist. the wife and i have been great supporters and recruiters for northern ontario. it saddens me to see the ENTIRE system going down, and people still not seeing the greater picture. Ski I think you are mis understanding the Tourist vs Local debate You can have all the tourist you want BUT if there is no one local to prep,maintain the trails , you can't have trails plain and simple The local guy wants to ride the 25-100km loops, you get rid of those, you lose the locals Not everyone is into ride 300km days just like not everyone is into riding 15km to a lake No one is saying get rid of tourist BUT rather you have to keep locals in the loop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I think you are mis understanding the Tourist vs Local debate You can have all the tourist you want BUT if there is no one local to prep,maintain the trails , you can't have trails plain and simple The local guy wants to ride the 25-100km loops, you get rid of those, you lose the locals Not everyone is into ride 300km days just like not everyone is into riding 15km to a lake No one is saying get rid of tourist BUT rather you have to keep locals in the loop Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 no freezy, i understand the locals (talking northern here), are the base and need to be encouraged to stay on with the clubs as riders and tourists in their own areas. but, what burns my butt is those saying close this and close that, the only ones going there are tourists... then saying the ofsc doesnt target tourists. CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. are the trails there for the locals only, or for ALL to enjoy? they can have that both ways, if targeted correctly. like bp, sasquatch and I have said over and over... when local loops are closed in remote areas the locals have no reason to support organized sledding. they feel slighted by the ofsc to give up their local fun to keep regional TOP trails open at the expense of their local trail. this is what starts the end of a club, district, region. you have to have local interest, to keep and maintain a local club/district. but, it is a vortex that sometimes cant be made to get out of. those calling for the end of districts, might get it at the cost of their entire ofsc entity. and if (and it is a big if) the ofsc were to fail, go bankrupt ect... the assets of the ofsc (think grooming fleet not outright owned by the club) would be all sold at auction. this would KILL the entire system as we know it. we are at a critical time in organized sledding in ontario. if we dont group together, fight for the rights of ALL districts throughout ontario.... all may be lost, more sooner than later. Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Grow up! If you want to respond to my comments with a well thought out rebuttal, please do so, otherwise keep your snide remarks to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 If you want to respond to my comments with a well thought out rebuttal, please do so, otherwise keep your snide remarks to yourself. When you talk and act like a child, you will be spoken to like one would speak to a child. Your comments have and continue to be of a snide and spiteful nature leaving no reason to comment on them other then to tell you that unlike so many other on here you really need to grow up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 no freezy, i understand the locals (talking northern here), are the base and need to be encouraged to stay on with the clubs as riders and tourists in their own areas. but, what burns my butt is those saying close this and close that, the only ones going there are tourists... then saying the ofsc doesnt target tourists. CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. are the trails there for the locals only, or for ALL to enjoy? they can have that both ways, if targeted correctly. like bp, sasquatch and I have said over and over... when local loops are closed in remote areas the locals have no reason to support organized sledding. they feel slighted by the ofsc to give up their local fun to keep regional TOP trails open at the expense of their local trail. this is what starts the end of a club, district, region. you have to have local interest, to keep and maintain a local club/district. but, it is a vortex that sometimes cant be made to get out of. those calling for the end of districts, might get it at the cost of their entire ofsc entity. and if (and it is a big if) the ofsc were to fail, go bankrupt ect... the assets of the ofsc (think grooming fleet not outright owned by the club) would be all sold at auction. this would KILL the entire system as we know it. we are at a critical time in organized sledding in ontario. if we dont group together, fight for the rights of ALL districts throughout ontario.... all may be lost, more sooner than later. Ski I agree 10000% with what they say It's like a vortex once that ball starts rolling it will be very hard to stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskywizard Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 When you talk and act like a child, you will be spoken to like one would speak to a child. Your comments have and continue to be of a snide and spiteful nature leaving no reason to comment on them other then to tell you that unlike so many other on here you really need to grow up! Zoso's point is worth consideration and discussion. The missing district has changed the situation. Why is he a child for putting that issue on the table? It's far more juvenile to avoid a difficult subject just because you're afraid to think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronOrange Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I think you are mis understanding the Tourist vs Local debate You can have all the tourist you want BUT if there is no one local to prep,maintain the trails , you can't have trails plain and simple The local guy wants to ride the 25-100km loops, you get rid of those, you lose the locals Not everyone is into ride 300km days just like not everyone is into riding 15km to a lake No one is saying get rid of tourist BUT rather you have to keep locals in the loop Really? Look at the OFSC map of proposed trails. There are enough trails in the south to do 5 - 25km loops from many places. Do they really need these trails or have those clubs, with all of their resources, found a way to manipulate the current system? More trails = more OFSC $$$. I would like to consider myself a somewhat experienced rider; I have been lost on numerous occasions in populated area like Sudbury and areas of Muskoka where there were simply too many trails. You know what, it really didn't matter which one I took, they all end up in the same damn place. That is abusing the system. As for the comment about volunteers in Foleyette: no kidding whether it be lack of permit sales or lack of support, these places do not have the resources. There aren't any accountants or lawyers who have cottages in Foleyette. The more economically challenged a location, the less likely they will be to succeed; it's the American way, look at Detroit. Let's just give up on them and let them fend for themselves, if they can't do it, screw em', and lets blame their failure on them, it couldn't be us, we're f'n perfect. I think that that if there were even a small amount of unity in the OFSC, there could have been a way for Chapleau and Timmins to work together to keep C101F open, along with many of the other trails we have lost over the past few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 When you talk and act like a child, you will be spoken to like one would speak to a child. Your comments have and continue to be of a snide and spiteful nature leaving no reason to comment on them other then to tell you that unlike so many other on here you really need to grow up! Fact is, your district cannot support itself, and offers nothing to the rest of the province in return for the dollars sent to you. Nobody from any other district will ever ride out there, ever. Like it or not that is the situation, and being as such I see no reason to feed your trails money any longer. Perhaps you could justify district 17, tell my what you bring to the table for the benefit of the rest of the province, how do all the other 15 districts benefit from your existance, justify flights in for meetings, transfer payments, the additional insurance costs to cover your trails system? Give me at least one reason to support you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Really? Look at the OFSC map of proposed trails. There are enough trails in the south to do 5 - 25km loops from many places. Do they really need these trails or have those clubs, with all of their resources, found a way to manipulate the current system? More trails = more OFSC $$$. I would like to consider myself a somewhat experienced rider; I have been lost on numerous occasions in populated area like Sudbury and areas of Muskoka where there were simply too many trails. You know what, it really didn't matter which one I took, they all end up in the same damn place. That is abusing the system. As for the comment about volunteers in Foleyette: no kidding whether it be lack of permit sales or lack of support, these places do not have the resources. There aren't any accountants or lawyers who have cottages in Foleyette. The more economically challenged a location, the less likely they will be to succeed; it's the American way, look at Detroit. Let's just give up on them and let them fend for themselves, if they can't do it, screw em', and lets blame their failure on them, it couldn't be us, we're f'n perfect. I think that that if there were even a small amount of unity in the OFSC, there could have been a way for Chapleau and Timmins to work together to keep C101F open, along with many of the other trails we have lost over the past few years. AO, I think you are looking at this from only one perspective, that of the touring rider. However, I suspect that the majority of the permit buyers are not in that category. As such, the 'redundant' trails that you are dismissing so lightly are the loops and variety that the majority like to ride. They do not ride from town to town or long distances, but their permit purchases are helping to pay for the whole system which provides the TOP trail system that you enjoy. Like it or not, the vast majority of permits are sold, and used, in the areas that you are criticizing. The funding from those permits provide huge support permits to the districts that could not survive without it. While I enjoy touring as well, I generally prefer to visit a locale and ride loops out of a base for a few days. As has been said many times on here, without local loops, there is no incentive for local riders to buy permits, therefore the local club folds, and the TOP trails that connect that location with others disappear as well. And you will blame the big bad OFSC, when it is you that are advocating dropping those local loops because they do not fit in with your riding interests. Not trying to pick on you specifically, but just trying to point out that this cannot be an us vs them fight. We need to work together to find a solution to these issues without excluding any of our members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Really? Look at the OFSC map of proposed trails. There are enough trails in the south to do 5 - 25km loops from many places. Have you ever ridden district 5? Some trails see in excess of a few thousand sleds a day. Without different ways to disperse the traffic, the trails would be toast in a matter of minutes. This would lead to severe crop damage, excess noise on existing trails, more accidents from people going off trail. D5 is even adding tourist loops this winter, complete with staging area's, gas, food and accommodations. Going to be a great winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 AO, I think you are looking at this from only one perspective, that of the touring rider. However, I suspect that the majority of the permit buyers are not in that category. As such, the 'redundant' trails that you are dismissing so lightly are the loops and variety that the majority like to ride. They do not ride from town to town or long distances, but their permit purchases are helping to pay for the whole system which provides the TOP trail system that you enjoy. Like it or not, the vast majority of permits are sold, and used, in the areas that you are criticizing. The funding from those permits provide huge support permits to the districts that could not survive without it. While I enjoy touring as well, I generally prefer to visit a locale and ride loops out of a base for a few days. As has been said many times on here, without local loops, there is no incentive for local riders to buy permits, therefore the local club folds, and the TOP trails that connect that location with others disappear as well. And you will blame the big bad OFSC, when it is you that are advocating dropping those local loops because they do not fit in with your riding interests. Not trying to pick on you specifically, but just trying to point out that this cannot be an us vs them fight. We need to work together to find a solution to these issues without excluding any of our members. I fully believe in loop trails but there must be both short and long, there are two types of riders out there. We closed many of our shorter loops and lost many of the short loop riders but if we close the long loops the touring riders crave we loose them as well and have nobody. Our club is made up now of the diehard riders who travel from town to town on day rides (one can be made into a part loop) and weekend rides. The only loop we have left is a 20km one. The 60km and the 100km one are closed and the 350km one is done as well. We have a three day (some do it in two days) ride that is awesome. We must cater to the touring or distance rider to keep what we have but at the same time we need to open loop trail back up to bring back the short ride folk. The southern perspective may be a short loop one but in the north distance rules mainly because the shortest day ride for me is a 160km (100mile) day ride, next is a 210 (130 mile) day ride followed by a couple 400km (240 miles) day rides! The three day loop is 1000kms (600miles) long. Course you always have the option to go half way to a warmup shelter have a lunch and head back which is what many do! I love manitoba for that ride from a base deal. 150 to 250 mile loops and enough different ones to last all week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucking Pig Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I fully believe in loop trails but there must be both short and long, there are two types of riders out there. We closed many of our shorter loops and lost many of the short loop riders but if we close the long loops the touring riders crave we loose them as well and have nobody. Our club is made up now of the diehard riders who travel from town to town on day rides (one can be made into a part loop) and weekend rides. The only loop we have left is a 20km one. the 100km one is closed and the 350km one is done as well. We have a three day (some do it in two days) ride that is awesome. We must cater to the touring or distance rider to keep what we have but at the same time we need to open loop trail back up to bring back the short ride folk. The southern perspective may be a short loop one but in the north distance rules mainly because the shortest day ride for me is a 160km (100mile) day ride, next is a 210 (130 mile) day ride followed by a couple 400km (240 miles) day rides! The three day loop is 1000kms (600miles) long. Course you always have the option to go half way to a warmup shelter have a lunch and head back which is what many do! I love manitoba for that ride from a base deal. 150 to 250 mile loops and enough different ones to last all week! And, this is why it's so hard for the OFSC to do anything to try and streamline or save money. Here we have three people, Sasquatch, Panther and I who all say we're your typical "northern rider" Sasquatch says he and all his friends won't do anything under 100 k for a day ride, while I wanted shorter rides to places to play for the day with maybe an annual multi-day trip, Panther says he's happy just riding on private property or out to go fishing. Who's wrong? Who really represents the rider in the North? Of course, we all do... and, none of do. There is no typical northern rider, just as there is no typical southern rider, or visiting rider, for that matter Akron. I talk about how all my friends have gotten out of the sport for the same reasons I did. Well, obviously I'm going to hang out with people of similar perspectives on riding, just as Sasquatch and his group of hard cores. We all want something different, and I don't think the money is there to give everone what they want. Is dumping D17 the answer? It depends on what the question is, and I'll leave it to Sasquatch to defend his right to belong to the OFSC. The hard core amongst you will always find a way to ride. Me? When the snow comes, I'll head out to camp and go fishing. Here's hoping for LOTS of snow this winter! BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I fully believe in loop trails but there must be both short and long, there are two types of riders out there. We closed many of our shorter loops and lost many of the short loop riders but if we close the long loops the touring riders crave we loose them as well and have nobody. Our club is made up now of the diehard riders who travel from town to town on day rides (one can be made into a part loop) and weekend rides. The only loop we have left is a 20km one. the 100km one is closed and the 350km one is done as well. We have a three day (some do it in two days) ride that is awesome. We must cater to the touring or distance rider to keep what we have but at the same time we need to open loop trail back up to bring back the short ride folk. The southern perspective may be a short loop one but in the north distance rules mainly because the shortest day ride for me is a 160km (100mile) day ride, next is a 210 (130 mile) day ride followed by a couple 400km (240 miles) day rides! The three day loop is 1000kms (600miles) long. Course you always have the option to go half way to a warmup shelter have a lunch and head back which is what many do! I love manitoba for that ride from a base deal. 150 to 250 mile loops and enough different ones to last all week! Actually southern Ontario has it all. You can do short loops of 20 to 200km as well as longer ones in the 1500km range without hitting the same trail twice. You could ride for several weeks here and not ride every trail available. The network of trails in d5 and d9 is incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledguy74 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Actually southern Ontario has it all. You can do short loops of 20 to 200km as well as longer ones in the 1500km range without hitting the same trail twice. You could ride for several weeks here and not ride every trail available. The network of trails in d5 and d9 is incredible. just usually has a lack of snow or a very short season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Really? Look at the OFSC map of proposed trails. There are enough trails in the south to do 5 - 25km loops from many places. Do they really need these trails or have those clubs, with all of their resources, found a way to manipulate the current system? More trails = more OFSC $$$. I would like to consider myself a somewhat experienced rider; I have been lost on numerous occasions in populated area like Sudbury and areas of Muskoka where there were simply too many trails. You know what, it really didn't matter which one I took, they all end up in the same damn place. That is abusing the system. As for the comment about volunteers in Foleyette: no kidding whether it be lack of permit sales or lack of support, these places do not have the resources. There aren't any accountants or lawyers who have cottages in Foleyette. The more economically challenged a location, the less likely they will be to succeed; it's the American way, look at Detroit. Let's just give up on them and let them fend for themselves, if they can't do it, screw em', and lets blame their failure on them, it couldn't be us, we're f'n perfect. I think that that if there were even a small amount of unity in the OFSC, there could have been a way for Chapleau and Timmins to work together to keep C101F open, along with many of the other trails we have lost over the past few years. abusing the system The vast majority of sledders in Sudbury ride only the Sudbury area and I am sure there are many other places the same The reason clubs formed was to have fun in OUR area and maintain OUR area to keep OUR riders happy You lose those trails , you lose people plain and simple It is not some vast conspiracy ,it is a reality, people like looking after their back yard /play area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Zoso's point is worth consideration and discussion. The missing district has changed the situation. Why is he a child for putting that issue on the table? It's far more juvenile to avoid a difficult subject just because you're afraid to think about it. Then consider and discuss it! Zoso has a vendeta and has posted in in numerous places. You and anyone else that wishes to follow it feel free to do so. I Will not open that can of worms and start a North South argument that goes nowhere and ends badly. If you feel that district 17 should be thrown under the bus because of where it is located and the fact that it does not fit in with your me, me, needs then toss it. Feel free to lobby the OFSC to that end. I'm sure that District 15, 14, 13 will love every arguement you come up with as most of those will apply to them as well. Its been spoken about to no end that people do not travel more then 3 hours from home and ride in their local areas only so why send money North or for that matter to any club or district. Can't make it on its own then close it! My fear is not for District 17 but more for the OFSC and all its clubs. Toss em under the bus mode just turns into a dog eat dog everyone for themselves mentality, thankfully smarter heads have prevailed! Maybe Zoso should post his location for all to see! Wonder why he hides that? Wonder what the transfer payments are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Fact is, your district cannot support itself, and offers nothing to the rest of the province in return for the dollars sent to you. Nobody from any other district will ever ride out there, ever. Like it or not that is the situation, and being as such I see no reason to feed your trails money any longer. Perhaps you could justify district 17, tell my what you bring to the table for the benefit of the rest of the province, how do all the other 15 districts benefit from your existance, justify flights in for meetings, transfer payments, the additional insurance costs to cover your trails system? Give me at least one reason to support you. Zoso to your question I ask one my self. Why should anyone support you? Can you justify your club, your district? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 And, this is why it's so hard for the OFSC to do anything to try and streamline or save money. Here we have three people, Sasquatch, Panther and I who all say we're your typical "northern rider" Sasquatch says he and all his friends won't do anything under 100 k for a day ride, while I wanted shorter rides to places to play for the day with maybe an annual multi-day trip, Panther says he's happy just riding on private property or out to go fishing. Who's wrong? Who really represents the rider in the North? Of course, we all do... and, none of do. There is no typical northern rider, just as there is no typical southern rider, or visiting rider, for that matter Akron. I talk about how all my friends have gotten out of the sport for the same reasons I did. Well, obviously I'm going to hang out with people of similar perspectives on riding, just as Sasquatch and his group of hard cores. We all want something different, and I don't think the money is there to give everone what they want. Is dumping D17 the answer? It depends on what the question is, and I'll leave it to Sasquatch to defend his right to belong to the OFSC. The hard core amongst you will always find a way to ride. Me? When the snow comes, I'll head out to camp and go fishing. Here's hoping for LOTS of snow this winter! BP Amen Brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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