Breaking News!!! No Northern Loop for Next winter.

[02Sled]

And you have proven my point! Everyone has a limit they will spend, a point they will complain and rebel about. Not everyone will or does justifiy and rationalize the cost. Always remember thet not everyone has a new sled or drops 500 at Royal. A permit is a sale item and as such must hold a percieved value. Poor snow, bad trails harrasment and the worst, closed trails take from that value. Add to that fact that the OFSC is looked at by some as a political type body that is picking thier pockets with ever increasing permit costs.

 

Increasing trail harasment over green slips of paper not with the sled is kind of a final straw for some. Being stopped 5 times in a day to show paper work is kind of a police state feeling. Being told to get off the trail because even though you have a permit but no green piece of paper to go with it is wrong. And what is up with a 50km speed limit that no one obeys but the police like to set up traps over? Sask is 80km and Manitoba is more or less road speed if your along side one. Ontario is on crack! Then for the price I pay for the permit I should be able to transfer it to my second sled if my first breaks down. I bought the permit it should give me the right to ride the trails with whatever sled I wish. I after all can only ride one sled at a time! I know nothing is perfect and accept that fact. You can't make everyone happy thats also a fact! However these are all things that take from the percived value.

 

I have driven across Canada in my car for a total of 10 days of driving and was never stopped once to show papaer work. In fact in all the years of driving a million mile I have only been stopped for speeding a handful of times and only then asked for paperwork. Even the ilegal road side breathalizer check has only asked me if I was drinking and let me on my way. Lucky if that has been a dozen times in a million miles. Snowmobiling is not only expensive but its fast becoming one of the most harrased ways to travel and we are asking for more of it.

 

We are drawing a line in the snow and instead of being freindly we are becoming confrontational. Higher permit price more police stops and harrasment (includes stop officers) all take from the value.

 

And yes I have a limit to what I will pay for a permit. Manitoba is only a few hours away and at 125 bucks thier permit has a better value!  I still and will alawys think a Val Tag permit is the answer to a lot of issues and is a better value for all!

Don't know where you ride but in all the years I have been out there I can count the number of times I have even come across the OPP on my fingers and the times I have been asked to provide any paperwork (never the green copy) number only 3. One time they were checking the permit serial numbers looking for some of those that were stolen from one of the clubs.

 

Each province has their own insurance regulations which govern what can and can't be done. i.e. no fault insurance. It is the insurance companies which drive the 50km limit. OFSC can't change that. It has to start with the province and their regulations since we fall under the same restrictions as auto insurance.

 

As for transferring the permit from sled to sled... can you take the licence plates from one car to another? After all you can only drive one car at a time. Think about the abuse that opens up. We have it now with people passing the permit not from just one sled to another but from rider to another. I have found people with the permit in their pocket with every excuse under the sun. The local guy rides weekdays and his buddy that lives in Toronto rides weekends so they pass the permit back and forth.

 

Hate to break it to you the RIDE spot checks are actually legal.

 

We all make lots of choices and if you believe Manitoba is the better value think logically about what you just said. "Only a few hours away." Manitoba $125. Ontario $210. Net difference is $85. Traveling "a few hours" each way in my truck pulling the trailer and the two sleds would eat up that $85 in the first trip. Ontario would then be the better value for me.

[Wildman]

And you have proven my point! Everyone has a limit they will spend, a point they will complain and rebel about. Not everyone will or does justifiy and rationalize the cost. Always remember thet not everyone has a new sled or drops 500 at Royal. A permit is a sale item and as such must hold a percieved value. Poor snow, bad trails harrasment and the worst, closed trails take from that value. Add to that fact that the OFSC is looked at by some as a political type body that is picking thier pockets with ever increasing permit costs.

 

Increasing trail harasment over green slips of paper not with the sled is kind of a final straw for some. Being stopped 5 times in a day to show paper work is kind of a police state feeling. Being told to get off the trail because even though you have a permit but no green piece of paper to go with it is wrong. And what is up with a 50km speed limit that no one obeys but the police like to set up traps over? Sask is 80km and Manitoba is more or less road speed if your along side one. Ontario is on crack! Then for the price I pay for the permit I should be able to transfer it to my second sled if my first breaks down. I bought the permit it should give me the right to ride the trails with whatever sled I wish. I after all can only ride one sled at a time! I know nothing is perfect and accept that fact. You can't make everyone happy thats also a fact! However these are all things that take from the percived value.

 

I have driven across Canada in my car for a total of 10 days of driving and was never stopped once to show papaer work. In fact in all the years of driving a million mile I have only been stopped for speeding a handful of times and only then asked for paperwork. Even the ilegal road side breathalizer check has only asked me if I was drinking and let me on my way. Lucky if that has been a dozen times in a million miles. Snowmobiling is not only expensive but its fast becoming one of the most harrased ways to travel and we are asking for more of it.

 

We are drawing a line in the snow and instead of being freindly we are becoming confrontational. Higher permit price more police stops and harrasment (includes stop officers) all take from the value.

 

And yes I have a limit to what I will pay for a permit. Manitoba is only a few hours away and at 125 bucks thier permit has a better value!  I still and will alawys think a Val Tag permit is the answer to a lot of issues and is a better value for all!

oh, now I understand.

[TRICKPaint]

If we dropped it to $150 where do you propose we get the rest of the dollars to operate? From the tax payers like you do in the US? we don't have enough dollars to operate now without reducing it.

You get it back in the volume of people buying permits. According to your logic,  heck why don't you just make it 500.00 per rider. 

I'm saying at 200.00 dollars I'm pretty hard pressed to talk anyone down here into buying a permit. 150.00 dollars I could get a few to buy that, so at 150.00 you have maybe 750.00 - 900.00 in permit sales at 200.00 you may just have me 0-200.00?

 

This is my crazy  idea...

* Lower permits costs 40-50 bucks

* Get families back into the sport by offering additional discounts for families with machines owned under the same name and household.

* Offer additional perks if you join an ontario club.

* OFSC  and Ontario clubs marketing the big snow shows to gain more US permits. I know this is done to some degree already.

*Make transfer of permits available for a minimal price say ($25.00?) if you should wreck, sell, or have a sled stolen.

* Sell really cool OFSC hoodies?... I'm just saying  make  money in addition to just permit sales? OFSC gear?

* Volunteers.... Guys like Luc Groomer Guy are great advocates for your trails! He promotes so much on his own time. I'm impressed with effort he puts into it.

I think you just have to get energetic, creative, and as one of you has stated a few times, "Think outside of the box" to get people excited about the sport again. If you can  get whole families participating  in the sport the way they did in past years you would be on the right track.

 

I love your trails and the places they take me. The new people I meet are always kind and helpful. I will be up this Winter for sure.

[Classic]

You get it back in the volume of people buying permits. According to your logic,  heck why don't you just make it 500.00 per rider. 

I'm saying at 200.00 dollars I'm pretty hard pressed to talk anyone down into buying a permit. 150.00 dollars I could get a few to buy that, so at 150.00 you have maybe 750.00 - 900.00 in permit sales at 200.00 you may just have me 0-200.00?

You fellows from the Us are spoiled. You're used to the state picking up the rest of the tab. I've been involved in organized snowmobling for many years and no has been able to show me that were losing riders because of permit prices only. There's a whole life style change and lack of snow the last twenty years that's causing the problem.

Let's say the drop of permit prices brought more riders out. Show me where we could increase it enough to make up the lost dollars. And with many more riders and no more money all we've gained is a lot more grooming with no more doillars. Once we go back it'll take ten years to regain the lost revenue. Thats how long it took to to $210.

[Sasquatch777]

Don't know where you ride but in all the years I have been out there I can count the number of times I have even come across the OPP on my fingers and the times I have been asked to provide any paperwork (never the green copy) number only 3. One time they were checking the permit serial numbers looking for some of those that were stolen from one of the clubs.

 

Each province has their own insurance regulations which govern what can and can't be done. i.e. no fault insurance. It is the insurance companies which drive the 50km limit. OFSC can't change that. It has to start with the province and their regulations since we fall under the same restrictions as auto insurance.

 

As for transferring the permit from sled to sled... can you take the licence plates from one car to another? After all you can only drive one car at a time. Think about the abuse that opens up. We have it now with people passing the permit not from just one sled to another but from rider to another. I have found people with the permit in their pocket with every excuse under the sun. The local guy rides weekdays and his buddy that lives in Toronto rides weekends so they pass the permit back and forth.

 

Hate to break it to you the RIDE spot checks are actually legal.

 

We all make lots of choices and if you believe Manitoba is the better value think logically about what you just said. "Only a few hours away." Manitoba $125. Ontario $210. Net difference is $85. Traveling "a few hours" each way in my truck pulling the trailer and the two sleds would eat up that $85 in the first trip. Ontario would then be the better value for me.

 

Ok shoot the messanger! I hear these things all the time! I'm tired of trying to convince people that the OFSC and a trail pass are indeed a valuable purchase!

 

But I will address a few of your arguments. The green copy thing was from an article in a snowmobile magazine and the person was asked to leave the trail by the OPP the experiance listed in print many other items of discontent.

 

The speed limit is a joke just like the 90kms on the highway that no one obeys, Of course in the south driving 120 plus is the norm in a 100kms zone. Nuff said!

 

The license plate on a car is redeemable and tranferable! Unlike a trail pass! Of course you may take the big leap and land on loaning your permit to buddies. I guess you missed the part where it is your permit!

 

Not long ago a police officer could not stop you unless you had broken a law. Times have indeed changed.

 

Hey why do I need a truck? I can ride to Manitoba on my sled. Besides we all know the trail pass is going up! I buy a pass in Ontario and Manitoba, The Manitoba pass is a better value!

[Sasquatch777]

You fellows from the Us are spoiled. You're used to the state picking up the rest of the tab. I've been involved in organized snowmobling for many years and no has been able to show me that were losing riders because of permit prices only. There's a whole life style change and lack of snow the last twenty years that's causing the problem.

Let's say the drop of permit prices brought more riders out. Show me where we could increase it enough to make up the lost dollars. And with many more riders and no more money all we've gained is a lot more grooming with no more doillars. Once we go back it'll take ten years to regain the lost revenue. Thats how long it took to to $210.

 

Yep what they all say! Permit price has nothing to do with diminishing sales! Yet it is the number one answer when asked why didn't you buy a permit! But if its not lnked then raise it to 300 bucks early bird. If your right you have eveything to gain and nothing to loose!

[skidooboy]

i am so sick of the "YOU GUYS FROM THE STATES ARE SO...."

 

SHOW ME WHERE THE STATES FUND ANY TRAILS.!!!! SHOW ME!!!! 

 

we have registrations, trail permits, and a very small fuel tax credit. that is it!

 

nothing is subsidized by our state tax payers. we happen to have 500,000 (yes that number is correct 500,000) REGISTERED SLEDS IN MICHIGAN ALONE. now take the tourists from ontario, indiana, pennsylvania, ohio, illinois, wisconsin, minnesota ect.... and hundreds of thousands of permits are sold EACH YEAR.

 

make the permit cost effective, worth while, and show the return on investment, and the permit buyers will come. if you cant do any one of those items, the user pay system will be lamented to those that can afford a percieved extravagant hobby, and the HUGE SYSTEM you now enjoy, will be broken up, and broken down, in to small unlinked areas.

 

we did this to ourselves, we let it happen, now everyone will have to live with it. there is no easy fix. and the "boys club" wont admit there is a fee problem, and will raise prices, and drive more away, or more to freeload. 

 

why not go to your govt, fight for insurance cost liability limits, tourism funding ect....???? Ski

[Sasquatch777]

Bottom line is untill the OFSC goes to a Val tag permit people will still free load on the system permit sales will continue to decline and clubs will continue to fold!

 

I know my thoughts on this are not popular but I also know they will work. Continuing to raise permit sales, waiting for people to buy who are waiting to see if it snows first and taking an confrontational (us against you) attitude pushes fence sitters away!

 

I agree with the OFSC its time to think outside the box!

[skidooboy]

Great post 777. Ski

[Viperules700]

X2. It Is a great post. Something has to change. The dollar is dropping, which is going to make a huge difference come winter. They are forecasting an 85 cent Canadian dollar again. That will help to bring back more amercians once again.

[TRICKPaint]

^ Viperules700, That does help offset some of our costs especially from all the way in Ohio. Any way we can save alittle bit is huge for us because we have so much more time and money invested in just getting there.

My snowmobile is worth more than my tow vehicle. I'm not the only one like that. We really love the sport and do all most whatever it takes to get those few charished days of riding in, so saving a few bucks here and there really does help.

[02Sled]

Ok shoot the messanger! I hear these things all the time! I'm tired of trying to convince people that the OFSC and a trail pass are indeed a valuable purchase!

 

But I will address a few of your arguments. The green copy thing was from an article in a snowmobile magazine and the person was asked to leave the trail by the OPP the experiance listed in print many other items of discontent.

 

The speed limit is a joke just like the 90kms on the highway that no one obeys, Of course in the south driving 120 plus is the norm in a 100kms zone. Nuff said!

 

The license plate on a car is redeemable and tranferable! Unlike a trail pass! Of course you may take the big leap and land on loaning your permit to buddies. I guess you missed the part where it is your permit!

 

Not long ago a police officer could not stop you unless you had broken a law. Times have indeed changed.

 

Hey why do I need a truck? I can ride to Manitoba on my sled. Besides we all know the trail pass is going up! I buy a pass in Ontario and Manitoba, The Manitoba pass is a better value!

Nobody is shooting the messenger. Just a pros and cons dialogue and varying perspectives out of which often comes good ideas.

 

You are right that it is common that on the highways with 100 kph limit most do about 120 and typically exceeding the posted limit slightly is ignored both on the highways and the trails. I have seen the OPP stop people who were speeding doing modestly over the limit. If they had their ownership insurance and trail permit they were sent on their way with a warning. Two riders that were doing 120 on the trail didn't get any forgiveness. If you give the OPP attitude they are not likely to just send you on your way. The posted limit is what it is and not likely to change.

 

You have two cars.... you have two licence plates. They are both your cars.... show me one province or state where you can pass the plates back and forth between the two cars since you can only drive one at a time. As for redeeming a licence plate for the unused portion... the province can afford the refund with millions of plates issued than the OFSC can with thousands issued. Try getting a season pass for any sport, skiing for example and then asking for a partial refund. I wish you luck.

 

As for riding to Manitoba... you said it was a few hours away. I made perhaps mistakenly an assumption that you would buy only one permit. To ride your sled to Manitoba a few hours away you would need to buy two permits. Therefore I also assumed you would be driving. Regardless. $85 difference is a squeeze to even find a nights accomodation for that.

[02Sled]

Yep what they all say! Permit price has nothing to do with diminishing sales! Yet it is the number one answer when asked why didn't you buy a permit! But if its not lnked then raise it to 300 bucks early bird. If your right you have eveything to gain and nothing to loose!

There are indeed sledders who are now living pay cheque to pay cheque and the cost of the permit is meaningful to the point it may dissuade them from riding. I believe they are in the minority. They are likely for the most part the guys riding from their backyard on older sleds. I could b wrong but that is my perception. One of the other concerns I hear is time demands from family... taking kids to XYZ.

 

Now here is one I have heard from a number of people. I would love to have a sled but haven't anywhere to keep one. I live in a condo in Toronto or no space in my driveway or I don't have a vehicle that will pull the trailer. Lots and I do mean lots of people have boats and similarly nohwere to keep them and nothing to pull the trailer. They keep their boats at a marina in the summer and store it there in winter.

 

Possibly low hanging fruit. Provide a reasonably priced secure place to leave your sled or sled and trailer for the season. Drive your car to the sled on the weekend and leave it safely parked for the week. A marina for sleds. Perhaps some of these struggling marinas on or near the trails could have an added revenue stream. I know of people I work with that would likely get into the sport if this was an option.

[Bucking Pig]

Bottom line is untill the OFSC goes to a Val tag permit people will still free load on the system permit sales will continue to decline and clubs will continue to fold!

 

I know my thoughts on this are not popular but I also know they will work. Continuing to raise permit sales, waiting for people to buy who are waiting to see if it snows first and taking an confrontational (us against you) attitude pushes fence sitters away!

 

I agree with the OFSC its time to think outside the box!

Sorry. I will not buy into this idea. I do not ride OFSC trails, I do not wish to pay for them. And, there are many more that do not ride on these trails. If you folks have a compliance problem on your trails, address that. Do not ask me to pay for your playground. I originally chose to stop riding OFSC trails because I did not feel I was getting value for my money. My personal opinion, which I have expressed here previously. Now, my riding preferences have changed to using the sleds for fishing, hunting and going to camp. There are not even any trails near here anymore, and you want me to pay for them? I don't think so

[Turbo Doo]

I thought that the hot sticky weather would at least slow down this topic.. Boy was i wrong. Good posts guys, keep them coming. IF we are learning anything from this, it is that there is going to be no easy and fast way of fixing the problems..

[Classic]

i am so sick of the "YOU GUYS FROM THE STATES ARE SO...."

 

SHOW ME WHERE THE STATES FUND ANY TRAILS.!!!! SHOW ME!!!! 

 

we have registrations, trail permits, and a very small fuel tax credit. that is it!

 

nothing is subsidized by our state tax payers. we happen to have 500,000 (yes that number is correct 500,000) REGISTERED SLEDS IN MICHIGAN ALONE. now take the tourists from ontario, indiana, pennsylvania, ohio, illinois, wisconsin, minnesota ect.... and hundreds of thousands of permits are sold EACH YEAR.

 

make the permit cost effective, worth while, and show the return on investment, and the permit buyers will come. if you cant do any one of those items, the user pay system will be lamented to those that can afford a percieved extravagant hobby, and the HUGE SYSTEM you now enjoy, will be broken up, and broken down, in to small unlinked areas.

 

we did this to ourselves, we let it happen, now everyone will have to live with it. there is no easy fix. and the "boys club" wont admit there is a fee problem, and will raise prices, and drive more away, or more to freeload. 

 

why not go to your govt, fight for insurance cost liability limits, tourism funding ect....???? Ski   We have tried this for years and years to no avail. Our prov. government has refused to do any thing about volunteer liability. They make too much money being freinds with their lawyer friends.

[Sasquatch777]

Nobody is shooting the messenger. Just a pros and cons dialogue and varying perspectives out of which often comes good ideas.

 

You are right that it is common that on the highways with 100 kph limit most do about 120 and typically exceeding the posted limit slightly is ignored both on the highways and the trails. I have seen the OPP stop people who were speeding doing modestly over the limit. If they had their ownership insurance and trail permit they were sent on their way with a warning. Two riders that were doing 120 on the trail didn't get any forgiveness. If you give the OPP attitude they are not likely to just send you on your way. The posted limit is what it is and not likely to change.

 

You have two cars.... you have two licence plates. They are both your cars.... show me one province or state where you can pass the plates back and forth between the two cars since you can only drive one at a time. As for redeeming a licence plate for the unused portion... the province can afford the refund with millions of plates issued than the OFSC can with thousands issued. Try getting a season pass for any sport, skiing for example and then asking for a partial refund. I wish you luck.

 

As for riding to Manitoba... you said it was a few hours away. I made perhaps mistakenly an assumption that you would buy only one permit. To ride your sled to Manitoba a few hours away you would need to buy two permits. Therefore I also assumed you would be driving. Regardless. $85 difference is a squeeze to even find a nights accomodation for that.

 

Yep most police ignore the posted limit and leave you alone. Then there is the odd one! Its a peve of mine. Post 90 and let everone speed till 105 110 then charge. Its allmost like a con to get bigger speeding fines once you all charged. You are allowed 15 over so that is what everyone drives. Except for the few by the book people who that camplain to the police and government about us law breakers because of all the vehicles that pass them. Who was it that said if no one obeys the law then the law is wrong and needs to be changed! One of the US presidents I believe!

 

If both cars have plates then you need not transfer them. But I can trasfer a plate from one car to another that has no plate. I can even trasfer it back at a later date as long as I pay the admin fee to do so! People that ski without a motor are strange!

 

Hell I can get to Manitoba on OFSC trails on crown land and lakes without a pass if I was inclined to do so! If my club ever folds  (Just keep raising the permit price) I will! But I do trailer to Manitoba to ride as well. Its not 85 dollars (I buy a Man permit every year) its 210 I would save by not buying a Ontario permit. I can find probably three nights accomidation for that easy. Lets hope it never comes to that!

[Sasquatch777]

There are indeed sledders who are now living pay cheque to pay cheque and the cost of the permit is meaningful to the point it may dissuade them from riding. I believe they are in the minority. They are likely for the most part the guys riding from their backyard on older sleds. I could b wrong but that is my perception. One of the other concerns I hear is time demands from family... taking kids to XYZ.

 

Now here is one I have heard from a number of people. I would love to have a sled but haven't anywhere to keep one. I live in a condo in Toronto or no space in my driveway or I don't have a vehicle that will pull the trailer. Lots and I do mean lots of people have boats and similarly nohwere to keep them and nothing to pull the trailer. They keep their boats at a marina in the summer and store it there in winter.

 

Possibly low hanging fruit. Provide a reasonably priced secure place to leave your sled or sled and trailer for the season. Drive your car to the sled on the weekend and leave it safely parked for the week. A marina for sleds. Perhaps some of these struggling marinas on or near the trails could have an added revenue stream. I know of people I work with that would likely get into the sport if this was an option.

 

You know in the south maybe less old sleds. But I'll just go with the group from work I ride with 2000 ski-doo 2003 ski-doo 2007 skidoo 2010 yamah 2011 yamaha 2001 polaris.

 

Another group of freinds are 1999 yamaha 2009 yamaha 2008 ski-doo 2000 cat 2003 yamaha 2000 ski-doo.

 

All these guys are diehards and buy permits. But represent the riding demografics quite well. Everywhere I go is old sleds riding around. Don't get me wrong there are new ones out there. Most of them are ditch banger youth with paddle tracks and do come on our trails from time to time but mostly ride off trail. They want to see the trails close so they can ride more whooped trails.

 

The condo crowd doesn't buy now and don't quite fit in the whats going on now thing but are an untapped resource that could bring in a few bucks. I ride with a guy from England who stores his sled and trailer in the states in a climate controled storage unit. He rents a truck and pulls his sled across the border to Manitoba to ride with us every year.

[Sasquatch777]

Sorry. I will not buy into this idea. I do not ride OFSC trails, I do not wish to pay for them. And, there are many more that do not ride on these trails. If you folks have a compliance problem on your trails, address that. Do not ask me to pay for your playground. I originally chose to stop riding OFSC trails because I did not feel I was getting value for my money. My personal opinion, which I have expressed here previously. Now, my riding preferences have changed to using the sleds for fishing, hunting and going to camp. There are not even any trails near here anymore, and you want me to pay for them? I don't think so

 

Sorry pig but you already do pay for them as the government does put money into the system. You in fact pay for a lot of things you do not use but on the bright side a Val Tag system would open up the trails in your area again and bring tourists like me to it.

[Bucking Pig]

Sorry pig but you already do pay for them as the government does put money into the system. You in fact pay for a lot of things you do not use but on the bright side a Val Tag system would open up the trails in your area again and bring tourists like me to it.

You're right! I do already pay into it, so my part's done. I am unwilling to pay even more for something I don't use.

[02Sled]

Yep most police ignore the posted limit and leave you alone. Then there is the odd one! Its a peve of mine. Post 90 and let everone speed till 105 110 then charge. Its allmost like a con to get bigger speeding fines once you all charged. You are allowed 15 over so that is what everyone drives. Except for the few by the book people who that camplain to the police and government about us law breakers because of all the vehicles that pass them. Who was it that said if no one obeys the law then the law is wrong and needs to be changed! One of the US presidents I believe!

 

If both cars have plates then you need not transfer them. But I can trasfer a plate from one car to another that has no plate. I can even trasfer it back at a later date as long as I pay the admin fee to do so! People that ski without a motor are strange!

 

Hell I can get to Manitoba on OFSC trails on crown land and lakes without a pass if I was inclined to do so! If my club ever folds  (Just keep raising the permit price) I will! But I do trailer to Manitoba to ride as well. Its not 85 dollars (I buy a Man permit every year) its 210 I would save by not buying a Ontario permit. I can find probably three nights accomidation for that easy. Lets hope it never comes to that!

So where does it stop. On a 100kph road people are doing 120kph. If the limit is raised to 120kph how much do you want to wager that suddenly people will think it's just fine to be doing 140kph and so on and so on.

[02Sled]

Let's also look at the changing demographics. We have an aging population and at some point in time those sledders will drop out due to health and other concerns. There are indeed die hards who will die with their helmet on.

 

I attended a conference last week and got some interesting stats from the provincial government presentation. 40% of the population of Canada live in Ontario. This next one surprised me. Approx. 55% of the population of Ontario were born elsewhere. Of that 45% that were born here a large portion of that are 2nd generation or perhaps 3rd of families that were born elsewhere.

 

Now I am not a racist, just a realist, how many of these diverse ethnic groups do you see even considering snowmobiling or venturing to cottage country. Reality is camping, cottaging, boating and snowmobiling tend to be dominated but not exclusive to the WASPish community which in reality is shrinking. We have a smaller pool of potential sledders from which to draw.

[sledjunk]

Let's also look at the changing demographics. We have an aging population and at some point in time those sledders will drop out due to health and other concerns. There are indeed die hards who will die with their helmet on.

 

I attended a conference last week and got some interesting stats from the provincial government presentation. 40% of the population of Canada live in Ontario. This next one surprised me. Approx. 55% of the population of Ontario were born elsewhere. Of that 45% that were born here a large portion of that are 2nd generation or perhaps 3rd of families that were born elsewhere.

 

Now I am not a racist, just a realist, how many of these diverse ethnic groups do you see even considering snowmobiling or venturing to cottage country. Reality is camping, cottaging, boating and snowmobiling tend to be dominated but not exclusive to the WASPish community which in reality is shrinking. We have a smaller pool of potential sledders from which to draw.

 

And how many of those 45% are now sledders?  I fall into that 'large portion' as do a number of sledders that I know.  This country and province is built on the influx of immigrants throughout our history.  I am sorry, but throwing out demographics like that is BS.  The president of the Club of the Year is from one of these 'diverse ethnic groups'.  This is NOT a race related sport, and comments like this are not the statements of a 'realist'.  I'll leave it to you to add the appropriate label.

[slomo]

This next one surprised me. Approx. 55% of the population of Ontario were born elsewhere. Of that 45% that were born here a large portion of that are 2nd generation or perhaps 3rd of families that were born elsewhere.

 

Now I am not a racist, just a realist, how many of these diverse ethnic groups do you see even considering snowmobiling or venturing to cottage country. Reality is camping, cottaging, boating and snowmobiling tend to be dominated but not exclusive to the WASPish community which in reality is shrinking. We have a smaller pool of potential sledders from which to draw.

The stats should not have been a surprise, in fact they are nothing new.

 

http://www.profitguide.com/opportunity/selling-to-canadas-new-immigrants-30295

 

There is a potential pool of new 'non traditional' sledders out there if the OFSC and private business would reach out to them through seminars, meetings with cultural groups, and organized introduction tours. A lot of hand holding would be needed, as breaking into the sport is difficult for those that are even familiar to it.

 

Doesn't the OFSC have Ned Nickerson, the Interprid Sledder and a graduate of University of Toronto with a Communications Degree on its staff? Surely, he could be including a few new Canadians on his sponsored sledding tours to expose them to the sport? If it wasn't too much trouble.

 

A whole new pool of advertising potential also exists for the snowmobile magazines - which are mostly advertising anyway. Get a few new Canadians on their sponsored tours, cut back on the stories extolling what great riders the magazine producers are, and get some new people involved in the sport.

[Bucking Pig]

The stats should not have been a surprise, in fact they are nothing new.

 

http://www.profitguide.com/opportunity/selling-to-canadas-new-immigrants-30295

 

There is a potential pool of new 'non traditional' sledders out there if the OFSC and private business would reach out to them through seminars, meetings with cultural groups, and organized introduction tours. A lot of hand holding would be needed, as breaking into the sport is difficult for those that are even familiar to it.

 

Doesn't the OFSC have Ned Nickerson, the Interprid Sledder and a graduate of University of Toronto with a Communications Degree on its staff? Surely, he could be including a few new Canadians on his sponsored sledding tours to expose them to the sport? If it wasn't too much trouble.

 

A whole new pool of advertising potential also exists for the snowmobile magazines - which are mostly advertising anyway. Get a few new Canadians on their sponsored tours, cut back on the stories extolling what great riders the magazine producers are, and get some new people involved in the sport.

This is probably one of the best posts in this topic yet!

Well said.