Breaking News!!! No Northern Loop for Next winter.

[slomo]

Well said!  How long before the Prius driving, tree hugging, cross country skiing Torontonians with cottages in Muskoka say; "I don't like the noise", "they're a hazard", "not across my property"?  We're all being pushed into those areas where the negatives in congested communities will not be accepted.  The OFSC, Ontario, and the riders should realize the top priority should be the integrity of the system or it will be gone.  All of it.

 

Happening already. Combination of sledding louts abusing private property and people's desire for peace and quiet.

 

I don't think they don't care, I think they don't know.Why couldn't the trunk trails be run by the Province like the roads? It would be a different funding model all together.  Forget about all of the stuff that got us into this mess.  Start over!  I think everyone can win!

 

Good, but - the only way this will happen is if partnerships are formed with the Prius driving, tree hugging, cross country skiiers so that an all season, multi-use, province wide system of trails be established on the same plane as the Ontario Parks system, conservation authorities, or the canal systems - funded by all for the potential use of all.

 

At which point a combination val tag/ trail permit would make sense for the vast majority of sled owners - much as the highway system, the hospital system, the education system.

 

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" - Spock, Star Trek II, The Wrath of Khan.

[white dragon]

 

 

 

 

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" - Spock, Star Trek II, The Wrath of Khan.

 

luv the quote slomo....sheldon cooper would be proud- big bang theory,season 2

[Wildman]

Yes the President is a volunteer position but what about the others below that position in Barrie raking in $150,000 per year? Brenda has been President for a while now.

 

Permit sales have gone down 50%+ over the years but the Barrie office still operates like there are 120,000 permit sales.

 

Cuts need to start at the top.

 

 

that is interesting, I have looked for paperwork on that ie. a report, but it doesn't seem to be anywhere. I may have missed it in the agm report. I have to admit, I wish they would print off the ledger, just like we do for the club meetings and for the district meetings.

That report leaves allot to be desired and there is plenty of room for manipulation. I would like to see the activity in all the accounts, and they don't show us that.

 

   So how many paid positions are there besides administration?

[AkronOrange]

There comes a point in all systems where you have to look at everything.  Things get added and nothing gets taken away,  It happens in my company, duplication of effort.  Get back to basics get rid of the fat.  Once you implement a person or program it will fill its time and position to justify its existance.  It just keeps getting bigger and bigger, look at US Government, it has happened there.  We have fewer people living in the city of Buffalo: do you think we have fewer emergency responders?

[AkronOrange]

Happening already. Combination of sledding louts abusing private property and people's desire for peace and quiet.

 

 

Good, but - the only way this will happen is if partnerships are formed with the Prius driving, tree hugging, cross country skiiers so that an all season, multi-use, province wide system of trails be established on the same plane as the Ontario Parks system, conservation authorities, or the canal systems - funded by all for the potential use of all.

 

At which point a combination val tag/ trail permit would make sense for the vast majority of sled owners - much as the highway system, the hospital system, the education system.

 

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" - Spock, Star Trek II, The Wrath of Khan.

 

I'm glad to see someone else "gets it".  I don't know how to fix it, but I know it can be fixed.  You have to think outside the box, like nothing that has ever been in place.

[Doogirl69]

that is interesting, I have looked for paperwork on that ie. a report, but it doesn't seem to be anywhere. I may have missed it in the agm report. I have to admit, I wish they would print off the ledger, just like we do for the club meetings and for the district meetings.

That report leaves allot to be desired and there is plenty of room for manipulation. I would like to see the activity in all the accounts, and they don't show us that.

 

   So how many paid positions are there besides administration?

 

Lets see,

 

Mike 

Pim

Jean

Craig

Paul 

 

there are more.

 

I looked at the OFSC site and can't find a Staff list. Hmmmmmm.

 

You would think for a non profit org, that info should be public.

 

This is all that I could find from 2009. Why the big secret????

 

http://www.paudashtrailblazers.on.ca/recent_news/2009/2009-07-08_OFSCStaffing.htm

[white dragon]

''looked at the OFSC site and can't find a Staff list. Hmmm''

not  a authority on subject...know '' bark biter'' works at ofsc office part time & she was down to a few days this yr...there is no staff at office...anymore cut back at office & they'll be working out of a warm-up shack....everybody at the ofsc is a volunteer....& dam luckly to have them....

[Nith Valley Sledder]

Lets see,

 

Mike 

Pim

Jean

Craig

Paul 

 

there are more.

 

I looked at the OFSC site and can't find a Staff list. Hmmmmmm.

 

You would think for a non profit org, that info should be public.

 

This is all that I could find from 2009. Why the big secret????

 

http://www.paudashtrailblazers.on.ca/recent_news/2009/2009-07-08_OFSCStaffing.htm

 

There are a few more staff at the OFSC office. They do publish a staff list but it is not for the general public. They stopped having a real person answer the phone a few years ago. They don't want the general public calling the OFSC office. Their staff don't have time to take calls from the genral public. If they did that they wouldn't get their work done and there aren't many people left up there to do the work. The general public are supposed to contact the district offices. If the districts can't deal with the concerns of the public then the district executive or office administrator will get coordinate with the OFSC office. This is why we pay a lot of money to maintain a district office for each area. The OFSC has downloaded a lot of the responibility of dealing with the public to the district level so the OFSC office can deal with the higher level administration of the various programs.

[Wildman]

Lets see,

 

Mike 

Pim

Jean

Craig

Paul 

 

there are more.

 

I looked at the OFSC site and can't find a Staff list. Hmmmmmm.

 

You would think for a non profit org, that info should be public.

 

This is all that I could find from 2009. Why the big secret????

 

http://www.paudashtrailblazers.on.ca/recent_news/2009/2009-07-08_OFSCStaffing.htm

 

not sure about having it public, but it should be part of the finacials in the agm reports......and maybe it is, but I sure haven't seen it and can't find it.

[FreezerBurnt]

Different problem.  Poachers are poachers and should be dealt with.  The volunteer system needs to adjusted, if you help, you get a discount.  I don't help, charge me more.  I'll bet the northern clubs sell more permits per capita than many of those getting all of the money.

 

 

VOLOUNTEERS VOLOUNTEER BECAUSE THEY WANT TO, and some feel the need to help out, they don't care about paying less when they work or help out a club

 

It's not about getting a discount, people are in a me me world, and have tons of other stuff that take up their time

 

Throwing $$$$ at teh problem will not solve anything

[AkronOrange]

Lets see,

 

Mike 

Pim

Jean

Craig

Paul 

 

there are more.

 

I looked at the OFSC site and can't find a Staff list. Hmmmmmm.

 

You would think for a non profit org, that info should be public.

 

This is all that I could find from 2009. Why the big secret????

 

http://www.paudashtrailblazers.on.ca/recent_news/2009/2009-07-08_OFSCStaffing.htm

 

I think this should be monitored but it's not going to make or break the trails for the north.  I think it should be a restructuring of the system and a complete reallocation of the funding for the trunk trails.  If their are people not doing their job, they should be replaced.  I cannot say this is the case.  Whenever I call; I receive a call back.  When I send an email, I get a response.  I have always thought, from those with which I have communicated, truly do care about the sport and the people using the system. 

[Sasquatch777]

Hey Akron if its the northern experiance you want come tour North Western Ontario. Three to five days is possible and more if you branch out into Manitoba. I have maps and know the hotels depending on when you came I'm could ride with ya. We are allways looking for more permit dollars and I know if your looking for the wilderness experiance you'll find it here!

[Viperules700]

Hey Akron if its the northern experiance you want come tour North Western Ontario. Three to five days is possible and more if you branch out into Manitoba. I have maps and know the hotels

depending on when you came I'm could ride

with ya. We are allways looking for more permit

dollars and I know if your looking for the

wilderness experiance you'll find it here!

How do you get to Manitoba, when the west isn't linked with your area. Thunderbay east and west is a huge hole. Just wondering?

[skidooboy]

must be linked some how, do you see his mileage stats? i am guessing you dont know EXACTLY where sasquatch lives.

 

north and west of thunder bay is linked to both manitoba, and minnesota trail systems. Ski

[Sasquatch777]

must be linked some how, do you see his mileage stats? i am guessing you dont know EXACTLY where sasquatch lives.

 

north and west of thunder bay is linked to both manitoba, and minnesota trail systems. Ski

Yep Distric 17 is linked to Manitoba and minnesota. For you US riders trailer to Tower Minn and head north to Atikokan, Ignace, Soiux Lookout, Dryden, Earfalls, Red Lake, Vermillion Bay, Kenora, Soiux Narrows, Nester Falls, Emo, Fort Frances. This is Distric 17 probably in my humble opinion the best place in Ontario to ride, the above would be about a three or four day loop. Quick jump over the border into Manitoba and on to Richer and a person can ride south through the sandilands and back into the US or back to Ontario Via Falcon Lake or Lake of the woods. There are four entry points back into the US.

 

Can make three day to a week plus loops. RWS has rode this area many times as have I. He has rode the US side of us as well. I have not yet. Retirement is close and south of the Border is on the list. Manitoba has more traffic on the weekends but weekdays are quieter. This is where I have been riding outside Distric 17 every winter. I've done 5 and 6 day loops of Distric 17 combined with Manitoba. For that matter I have done 6 day 1,200 mile Loops of Manitoba.

 

And please buy your trail pass from the Dryden Power Tobbogan Club.

[Viperules700]

I thought district 17 was mostly closed, towns like marathon, longlac, hillsport, geraldton etec?? Is there actually still grooming and signage going on. I will have to trailer out and ride this area sometime in the next few years. It is on my snowmobile bucket list.

[skidooboy]

I thought district 17 was mostly closed, towns like marathon, longlac, hillsport, geraldton etec?? Is there actually still grooming and signage going on. I will have to trailer out and ride this area sometime in the next few years. It is on my snowmobile bucket list.

 

you are confusing district 16 (cities you listed), and district 17 which starts west of thunderbay. look at the interactive guide, and look for the district bounderies. Ski

[Viperules700]

you are confusing district 16 (cities you listed), and district 17 which starts west of thunderbay. look at the interactive guide, and look for the district bounderies. Ski

Gotcha. I new something wasn't right. Thanks for the correction ski. Too bad district 16 lost most of thier trails. Manitoba looks interesting based on reports from Jay last winter.

[AkronOrange]

You all have me really interested.  Can I trailer to Thunder Bay and ride on groomed trails for a week?  I would love to ride Minnesota and Manitoba.  Sas 777 I would love a guided tour.  Send me more of the details.    We typically do a week long trip ay the end of February.

 

I just bought a new sled, 13 F1100 RR, I need to use it.

[TRICKPaint]

What if you lowered the cost of permits for people who live in Ontario and offer disscounts for families. I live in Ohio, but I ride up there and have talked to friends who live up there and most think it is too high. I have many friends here who will no longer buy a season permit. Unless we can make it up there at least 2-3 times it's just not worth it, so many have been riding Michigan where a seasonn permit is only 45.00

If you guys could bring it down 50- 60 dollars (to make it @ 150-140 ) and offer additional incentives for Ontario riders and their families I bet the volume of permit purchases would sky rocket. Your trails are awesome and I love riding them Between my friends and I who I have introduced to your trails we have put tens of thousands of dollars into your federation and local gas, food and lodging businesses.

I hope you guys can figure something out to keep that North loop. I  sure want you guys to meet your goals and keep as many of your great trails open as possible.

I don't know how heavy you promote at the Snow Shows,,,

but I'm sure that  is a big help for getting more permits purchased?!

[Sasquatch777]

What if you lowered the cost of permits for people who live in Ontario and offer disscounts for families. I live in Ohio, but I ride up there and have talked to friends who live up there and most think it is too high. I have many friends here who will no longer buy a season permit. Unless we can make it up there at least 2-3 times it's just not worth it, so many have been riding Michigan where a seasonn permit is only 45.00

If you guys could bring it down 50- 60 dollars (to make it @ 150-140 ) and offer additional incentives for Ontario riders and their families I bet the volume of permit purchases would sky rocket. Your trails are awesome and I love riding them Between my friends and I who I have introduced to your trails we have put tens of thousands of dollars into your federation and local gas, food and lodging businesses.

I hope you guys can figure something out to keep that North loop. I  sure want you guys to meet your goals and keep as many of your great trails open as possible.

I don't know how heavy you promote at the Snow Shows,,,

but I'm sure that  is a big help for getting more permits purchased?!

 

The train of thought is to raise it higher still. Those who think the permit price is to high are wrong. End of discussion!

 

I dissagree as do others, even the OFSC parent group are hesitant to increase because of feedback and are looking at ways to lower permit prices but Southern Clubs are against and they are the majority so expect higher pemit prices in the future. Even the early early permit is probably lost.

 

Hard to catch a break!

[Classic]

What if you lowered the cost of permits for people who live in Ontario and offer disscounts for families. I live in Ohio, but I ride up there and have talked to friends who live up there and most think it is too high. I have many friends here who will no longer buy a season permit. Unless we can make it up there at least 2-3 times it's just not worth it, so many have been riding Michigan where a seasonn permit is only 45.00

If you guys could bring it down 50- 60 dollars (to make it @ 150-140 ) and offer additional incentives for Ontario riders and their families I bet the volume of permit purchases would sky rocket. Your trails are awesome and I love riding them Between my friends and I who I have introduced to your trails we have put tens of thousands of dollars into your federation and local gas, food and lodging businesses.

I hope you guys can figure something out to keep that North loop. I  sure want you guys to meet your goals and keep as many of your great trails open as possible.

I don't know how heavy you promote at the Snow Shows,,,

but I'm sure that  is a big help for getting more permits purchased?!

If we dropped it to $150 where do you propose we get the rest of the dollars to operate? From the tax payers like you do in the US? we don't have enough dollars to operate now without reducing it.

[Sasquatch777]

If we dropped it to $150 where do you propose we get the rest of the dollars to operate? From the tax payers like you do in the US? we don't have enough dollars to operate now without reducing it.

 

Again the OFSC wants to head down a different road. Maybe we should follow and then carry it even further.

 

Plus the we must raise it to meet declining dollars is the knee jerk reation. It is not thinking outside the box, its the solution that got us to here reaction. It does nothing to address the problem it only if anything adds to it, I have to take my hat off to the OFSC the four step thought process was thinking outside the box. I say was because the raise the permit and circle the wagons crowd will defeat it then push for the hum drum vanila white solution of well just keep jacking the price till we have enough no matter how high that gets till the system collapses. Of course this will tear all the have less clubs apart in the process and make rebuilding the system nothing but a dream.

[02Sled]

Again the OFSC wants to head down a different road. Maybe we should follow and then carry it even further.

 

Plus the we must raise it to meet declining dollars is the knee jerk reation. It is not thinking outside the box, its the solution that got us to here reaction. It does nothing to address the problem it only if anything adds to it, I have to take my hat off to the OFSC the four step thought process was thinking outside the box. I say was because the raise the permit and circle the wagons crowd will defeat it then push for the hum drum vanila white solution of well just keep jacking the price till we have enough no matter how high that gets till the system collapses. Of course this will tear all the have less clubs apart in the process and make rebuilding the system nothing but a dream.

I still have a hard time accepting the permit price is the big reason for people to quit. Maybe for some who are living pay cheque to pay cheque. It is not necessarily a poor mans sport. I go to the sled show and see the money people drop on the sleds themselves and all the rest of the gear. People walking out the door at Royal dropping $500+ on misc. Then they complain about the cost of the permit. Ridiculous. I go to Mason's Chandlery in Port Credit for some of my marine supplies and see the guy with the $100K+ boat grumble about the cost of a good polish. Even more relative of a comparison. I'm tied up at the lock in Port Severn and here people with 30+ foot long boats whining about the cost of the lock pass. If you can afford the boat and the fuel you can afford the pass. Cheap in the grand scheme of boat ownership.

[Sasquatch777]

I still have a hard time accepting the permit price is the big reason for people to quit. Maybe for some who are living pay cheque to pay cheque. It is not necessarily a poor mans sport. I go to the sled show and see the money people drop on the sleds themselves and all the rest of the gear. People walking out the door at Royal dropping $500+ on misc. Then they complain about the cost of the permit. Ridiculous. I go to Mason's Chandlery in Port Credit for some of my marine supplies and see the guy with the $100K+ boat grumble about the cost of a good polish. Even more relative of a comparison. I'm tied up at the lock in Port Severn and here people with 30+ foot long boats whining about the cost of the lock pass. If you can afford the boat and the fuel you can afford the pass. Cheap in the grand scheme of boat ownership.

 

And you have proven my point! Everyone has a limit they will spend, a point they will complain and rebel about. Not everyone will or does justifiy and rationalize the cost. Always remember thet not everyone has a new sled or drops 500 at Royal. A permit is a sale item and as such must hold a percieved value. Poor snow, bad trails harrasment and the worst, closed trails take from that value. Add to that fact that the OFSC is looked at by some as a political type body that is picking thier pockets with ever increasing permit costs.

 

Increasing trail harasment over green slips of paper not with the sled is kind of a final straw for some. Being stopped 5 times in a day to show paper work is kind of a police state feeling. Being told to get off the trail because even though you have a permit but no green piece of paper to go with it is wrong. And what is up with a 50km speed limit that no one obeys but the police like to set up traps over? Sask is 80km and Manitoba is more or less road speed if your along side one. Ontario is on crack! Then for the price I pay for the permit I should be able to transfer it to my second sled if my first breaks down. I bought the permit it should give me the right to ride the trails with whatever sled I wish. I after all can only ride one sled at a time! I know nothing is perfect and accept that fact. You can't make everyone happy thats also a fact! However these are all things that take from the percived value.

 

I have driven across Canada in my car for a total of 10 days of driving and was never stopped once to show papaer work. In fact in all the years of driving a million mile I have only been stopped for speeding a handful of times and only then asked for paperwork. Even the ilegal road side breathalizer check has only asked me if I was drinking and let me on my way. Lucky if that has been a dozen times in a million miles. Snowmobiling is not only expensive but its fast becoming one of the most harrased ways to travel and we are asking for more of it.

 

We are drawing a line in the snow and instead of being freindly we are becoming confrontational. Higher permit price more police stops and harrasment (includes stop officers) all take from the value.

 

And yes I have a limit to what I will pay for a permit. Manitoba is only a few hours away and at 125 bucks thier permit has a better value!  I still and will alawys think a Val Tag permit is the answer to a lot of issues and is a better value for all!