Breaking News!!! No Northern Loop for Next winter.

[whiskywizard]

Then consider and discuss it! Zoso has a vendeta and has posted in in numerous places. You and anyone else that wishes to follow it  feel free to do so. I Will not open that can of worms and start a North South argument that goes nowhere and ends badly. If you feel that district 17 should be thrown under the bus because of where it is located and the fact that it does not fit in with your me, me, needs then toss it. Feel free to lobby the OFSC to that end.

 

I'm sure that District 15, 14, 13 will love every arguement you come up with as most of those will apply to them as well. Its been spoken about to no end that people do not travel more then 3 hours from home and ride in their local areas only so why send money North or for that matter to any club or district.  Can't make it on its own then close it!

 

My fear is not for District 17 but more for the OFSC and all its clubs. Toss em under the bus mode just turns into a dog eat dog everyone for themselves mentality, thankfully smarter heads have prevailed!

 

Maybe Zoso should post his location for all to see! Wonder why he hides that? Wonder what the transfer payments are?

 

Fear of 'opening a can of worms' is an euphemism for burying your head in the sand. It will not lead to real resolution. 

  

And let me be perfectly clear; I haven't thrown anyone under a bus, I have yet to form any opinion on this issue, and I have absolutely no argument to present to Districts 13, 14 or 15.  That's why I'd like to hear the various opinions, see the facts, and not leave critical issues buried such that they can't be addressed. Only this way can I form a meaningful opinion. 

[zoso]

Then consider and discuss it! Zoso has a vendeta and has posted in in numerous places. You and anyone else that wishes to follow it  feel free to do so. I Will not open that can of worms and start a North South argument that goes nowhere and ends badly. If you feel that district 17 should be thrown under the bus because of where it is located and the fact that it does not fit in with your me, me, needs then toss it. Feel free to lobby the OFSC to that end.

 

I'm sure that District 15, 14, 13 will love every arguement you come up with as most of those will apply to them as well. Its been spoken about to no end that people do not travel more then 3 hours from home and ride in their local areas only so why send money North or for that matter to any club or district.  Can't make it on its own then close it!

 

My fear is not for District 17 but more for the OFSC and all its clubs. Toss em under the bus mode just turns into a dog eat dog everyone for themselves mentality, thankfully smarter heads have prevailed!

 

Maybe Zoso should post his location for all to see! Wonder why he hides that? Wonder what the transfer payments are?

Sudbury.

[skidooboy]

Made a mistake trying to quote zoso

 

 

 how bout this, lets close your district?

 

 

see who gets up in arms.

 

you have to see the writing on the wall, you start closing districts, you are going to lose more and more riders, more and more funding. and collapse of the TOTAL SYSTEM IS ONLY A FEW MINUTES AWAY.

 

Ski

[zoso]

Made a mistake trying to quote zoso

 

 

 how bout this, lets close your district?

 

 

see who gets up in arms.

 

you have to see the writing on the wall, you start closing districts, you are going to lose more and more riders, more and more funding. and collapse of the TOTAL SYSTEM IS ONLY A FEW MINUTES AWAY.

 

Ski

Getting rid of 17 will not effect permit sales outside that area one ioda. Sudbury is more than self sufficient, it could function without the OFSC.

[skidooboy]

no we are going to close the district around sudbury, to save the entire ofsc inter-provincial trail system AND reinstate district 16 with the savings of closing the sudbury district.

 

you would want to do that for the good of the system...... WOULDNT YOU???????????????????????????????????

 

see where this is going to lead?

 

stop looking out for your area, and start looking out for the good of the ENTIRE SYSTEM.   OR THE SYSTEM MIGHT NOT BE THERE IN THE FUTURE. AND YES, THEY COULD CLOSE YOUR DISTRICT TOO.

 

Ski

[AkronOrange]

I get it.  We all love this and want to protect our own recreation.  What I don't understand, and I mean I don't understand, is how the OFSC can let important trails close.  Cutting off entire districts, it just doesn't make sense.  The north is where the snow is.  I have canceled trips to North Bay because of snow conditions, I didn't cancel my trip, I just drove to New Liskeard or Kirkland Lake or Cochrane to get to the snow.  And you know what?  When I got there, there was more traffic in the "north" than ever.  I once had to call 5 motels to find a place to stay in Cochrane.  I once did a 1800 mile (that's 2900km) loop starting in North Bay and never had to ride the same trail twice.  Today I'll bet I'll bet, that if I plan carefully, I might be able to find 1000 mile loop.

 

2 seasons ago "C" trail almost didn't open to Timmins.  Can you believe that?  If not for some dedicated volunteers from Auld Reekie, The Sportsman and several other there would not have been a trail that year.  These types of volunteers are all over the north, the Groomer Guy is the benchmark example.

 

My point here is that there needs to be a trail system.  16 and 17 have been orphaned off to find their own way.  If you haven't been to the north you should visit, the riding is outstanding, but really it's the people that make it.  Ontario is truly missing out on an unfound natural resource.  The whole situation really saddens me.

[FreezerBurnt]

I get it.  We all love this and want to protect our own recreation.  What I don't understand, and I mean I don't understand, is how the OFSC can let important trails close.  Cutting off entire districts, it just doesn't make sense.  The north is where the snow is.  I have canceled trips to North Bay because of snow conditions, I didn't cancel my trip, I just drove to New Liskeard or Kirkland Lake or Cochrane to get to the snow.  And you know what?  When I got there, there was more traffic in the "north" than ever.  I once had to call 5 motels to find a place to stay in Cochrane.  I once did a 1800 mile (that's 2900km) loop starting in North Bay and never had to ride the same trail twice.  Today I'll bet I'll bet, that if I plan carefully, I might be able to find 1000 mile loop.

 

2 seasons ago "C" trail almost didn't open to Timmins.  Can you believe that?  If not for some dedicated volunteers from Auld Reekie, The Sportsman and several other there would not have been a trail that year.  These types of volunteers are all over the north, the Groomer Guy is the benchmark example.

 

My point here is that there needs to be a trail system.  16 and 17 have been orphaned off to find their own way.  If you haven't been to the north you should visit, the riding is outstanding, but really it's the people that make it.  Ontario is truly missing out on an unfound natural resource.  The whole situation really saddens me.

 

 

But if there is nobody there to maintain sign the trail how do you expect to have trails

 

 

The reason there are many smaller loops down south is because they have the people that ride and want those trails and can maintain them, most people ride in a particular area only, get rid of 3 out 6 trails in that are means less places to ride for them thus making think I am not getting my moneys worth and will no longer buy a permit or quit all together

 

If D 16 had the people buying and volounteers this would be all but a moot point, the economy and population unfortunately is not in their favour

[Sasquatch777]

Sudbury.

 

 That is what I thought!

[Sasquatch777]

Getting rid of 17 will not effect permit sales outside that area one ioda. Sudbury is more than self sufficient, it could function without the OFSC.

 

No thats funny right there! How do you plan to function without the OFSC?

 

Zoso you have stated that its your personal; goal to close district 17! Who knows why but it is a vendeta on your part against a district.  You try to use some logic but other then district 17 is not connected you got nothing. Thats your one and only reason. Everything else you spout applys to your district the same as 17.

 

District 13 14 and 15 all get transfer payments but glad to see your only concerned with your club. We have had this conversation before! Its personal with you, I get it and its why any discusion with you will get nowhere because you have nothing to stand on other then District 17 is not connected no one will ride there from the south, Well news for ya buddy people from district 1 say they don't ride Sudbury either. Haven't you been listening there are many people who like you would just as soon close the north up difference is they want us all gone, you only want D17 gone!

 

Well I can go and ride the prostate ride at Barrie and do the RAP tour as well, in my retirement I paln on it! You can come here. People from Southern Ontario have rode here and loved it. I plan to guide riders around my district in my retirement years both southern On Manitoban and American alike. Maybe you might like to come for a ride.

[zoso]

No thats funny right there! How do you plan to function without the OFSC?

 

Zoso you have stated that its your personal; goal to close district 17! Who knows why but it is a vendeta on your part against a district.  You try to use some logic but other then district 17 is not connected you got nothing. Thats your one and only reason. Everything else you spout applys to your district the same as 17.

 

District 13 14 and 15 all get transfer payments but glad to see your only concerned with your club. We have had this conversation before! Its personal with you, I get it and its why any discusion with you will get nowhere because you have nothing to stand on other then District 17 is not connected no one will ride there from the south, Well news for ya buddy people from district 1 say they don't ride Sudbury either. Haven't you been listening there are many people who like you would just as soon close the north up difference is they want us all gone, you only want D17 gone!

 

Well I can go and ride the prostate ride at Barrie and do the RAP tour as well, in my retirement I paln on it! You can come here. People from Southern Ontario have rode here and loved it. I plan to guide riders around my district in my retirement years both southern On Manitoban and American alike. Maybe you might like to come for a ride.

District 17 will be gone before you retire.

[zoso]

no we are going to close the district around sudbury, to save the entire ofsc inter-provincial trail system AND reinstate district 16 with the savings of closing the sudbury district.

 

you would want to do that for the good of the system...... WOULDNT YOU???????????????????????????????????

 

see where this is going to lead?

 

stop looking out for your area, and start looking out for the good of the ENTIRE SYSTEM.   OR THE SYSTEM MIGHT NOT BE THERE IN THE FUTURE. AND YES, THEY COULD CLOSE YOUR DISTRICT TOO.

 

Ski

No funding comes from district 17 they take funds, and nobody from where the funds are given rides there, ever, so to ay that it is a hinge in th system is wrong. Nobody in the rest of the province would even notice if it was gone, well hey might notice the bility to save trails they pay for and have them better groomed. I don't think you realize how bad the finances are.

[Sasquatch777]

District 17 will be gone before you retire.

 

Wanna bet?

[Sasquatch777]

No funding comes from district 17 they take funds, and nobody from where the funds are given rides there, ever, so to ay that it is a hinge in th system is wrong. Nobody in the rest of the province would even notice if it was gone, well hey might notice the bility to save trails they pay for and have them better groomed. I don't think you realize how bad the finances are.

 

So let me get this straight then if no funding comes from a district then it should be closed, lets leave your personal nobody cares out of it because the OFSC has to pass a bylaw to make this happen. I'm game make it happen Zoso!

 

So then lobby and or make a motion at the OFSC to change the bylaws. Lets see it would go something like this. All Districts that recieve transfer payments are hereby closed. Simple and to the point!

 

Anyway that is my last word on it! You of course can continue to beat it to death if you wish but how many times or ways can you say no one will miss them and they get transfer payments so they don't contribute?

[skidooboy]

No funding comes from district 17 they take funds, and nobody from where the funds are given rides there, ever, so to ay that it is a hinge in th system is wrong. Nobody in the rest of the province would even notice if it was gone, well hey might notice the bility to save trails they pay for and have them better groomed. I don't think you realize how bad the finances are.

 

No, i realize how bad it is.

 

and to save the entire system starting in the 2014-15 season, the ofsc are going to close the sudbury district down. no one really wants to ride there anyway. it's just a bunch of hillbillys that think they know how to run a provincial wide system, when in fact, they only care about THEIR OWN BACKYARD. (sarcasm)

 

if it meant to save the entire system over closing the sudbury area..... would you allow it to save the ofsc and the other districts..... or would you fight it to the death to keep your areas trails?

 

is any of this sinking in at all????

 

"no one in the rest of the province will know it is gone"  wow, you really have no concept of the economic impact to the province, if this were to take place. ask the clubs around 17,16,15,14,13 if they noticed when 17 started getting smaller, and 16 failed. they know they can be next.

 

 

if 17 goes, 13,14, and 15 wont be far behind. YOU'RE the next area to close. if you think it cant happen.... ask 16 and 17. YOU ARE NEXT ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK.

 

you are really showing how little you understand what will transpire for the system, with your thinking, and with every word you type.

 

mark my words, thinking like this is the end of the ofsc. and then you will only have groomed trails in areas that have their OWN grooming equipment. then those areas will be so flooded with riders, you will never have great trails due to traffic. enjoy riding your farm fields, and through towns for your 2-4 week sledding season (after your club has to buy it's own equipment that is).  

 

Ski

[02Sled]

Getting rid of 17 will not effect permit sales outside that area one ioda. Sudbury is more than self sufficient, it could function without the OFSC.

Maybe you can. Maybe you can't. That's a pretty bold statement to make. Have you looked at the cost of liability insurance for JUST the Sudbury area? I believe the OFSC self insures for the first X$. Seems someone suggested I believe that X is $1M. Do the Sudbury area club(s) have that much resource to self insure? If not the premiums would be higher yet. Would the landowners give LUP without the protection and credibility of that OFSC insurance policy? Do the Subury clubs receive transfer payments from the other OFSC clubs. Maybe yes, maybe no. A lot of homework needs to be done to make such a statement.  

[02Sled]

No funding comes from district 17 they take funds, and nobody from where the funds are given rides there, ever, so to ay that it is a hinge in th system is wrong. Nobody in the rest of the province would even notice if it was gone, well hey might notice the bility to save trails they pay for and have them better groomed. I don't think you realize how bad the finances are.

There are lots of people that wouldn't miss Sudbury if it was gone. I am sure the locals would but plenty of others wouldn't. Some from other areas that travel would miss it too but there are alternatives. It is a slippery slope.

[Bucking Pig]

It is a slippery slope, and D16 was the top edge of it.  Once you close trails, they can be REALLY hard to reopen, even on Crown land.  I'm not sure at what point in time of the trails being closed the MNR would consider reopening them a new proposal and have to jump through all the planning hoops again.

My district is gone for many reasons and I don't see it coming back, so I don't think people should be so quick to say get rid of any district where there are people who are willing to try to keep it going.   

[02Sled]

It is a slippery slope, and D16 was the top edge of it.  Once you close trails, they can be REALLY hard to reopen, even on Crown land.  I'm not sure at what point in time of the trails being closed the MNR would consider reopening them a new proposal and have to jump through all the planning hoops again.

My district is gone for many reasons and I don't see it coming back, so I don't think people should be so quick to say get rid of any district where there are people who are willing to try to keep it going.   

I agree... if keeping it open is a viable option then let's do it. The key is the volunteers being available followed by enough permit buyers to meet the minimum requirements.

[zoso]

No, i realize how bad it is.

 

and to save the entire system starting in the 2014-15 season, the ofsc are going to close the sudbury district down. no one really wants to ride there anyway. it's just a bunch of hillbillys that think they know how to run a provincial wide system, when in fact, they only care about THEIR OWN BACKYARD. (sarcasm)

 

if it meant to save the entire system over closing the sudbury area..... would you allow it to save the ofsc and the other districts..... or would you fight it to the death to keep your areas trails?

 

is any of this sinking in at all????

 

"no one in the rest of the province will know it is gone"  wow, you really have no concept of the economic impact to the province, if this were to take place. ask the clubs around 17,16,15,14,13 if they noticed when 17 started getting smaller, and 16 failed. they know they can be next.

 

 

if 17 goes, 13,14, and 15 wont be far behind. YOU'RE the next area to close. if you think it cant happen.... ask 16 and 17. YOU ARE NEXT ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK.

 

you are really showing how little you understand what will transpire for the system, with your thinking, and with every word you type.

 

mark my words, thinking like this is the end of the ofsc. and then you will only have groomed trails in areas that have their OWN grooming equipment. then those areas will be so flooded with riders, you will never have great trails due to traffic. enjoy riding your farm fields, and through towns for your 2-4 week sledding season (after your club has to buy it's own equipment that is).  

 

Ski

Again, The sudbury area could, on its own, open insure sign and groom 1500km of trails without he OFSC. The 3000 permit buyers here ride here for the most part, do not travel outside the STP system and 90% would not even notice a change. IOW's this area is self supporting, does not rely upon the OFSC to fund it and groomed trails in this area are not going to be closed by anyone but the people in this area whether the OFSC is involved or not. District 17 my wel be able orun on its own, or with an agrement with Manitoba, you know the area their trails system is actually connected to.

[Classic]

Again, The sudbury area could, on its own, open insure sign and groom 1500km of trails without he OFSC. The 3000 permit buyers here ride here for the most part, do not travel outside the STP system and 90% would not even notice a change. IOW's this area is self supporting, does not rely upon the OFSC to fund it and groomed trails in this area are not going to be closed by anyone but the people in this area whether the OFSC is involved or not. District 17 my wel be able orun on its own, or with an agrement with Manitoba, you know the area their trails system is actually connected to.

You wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting insurance. You would be looking at several mil if you could even find a company to bid on it.

[AkronOrange]

But if there is nobody there to maintain sign the trail how do you expect to have trails

 

 

The reason there are many smaller loops down south is because they have the people that ride and want those trails and can maintain them, most people ride in a particular area only, get rid of 3 out 6 trails in that are means less places to ride for them thus making think I am not getting my moneys worth and will no longer buy a permit or quit all together

 

If D 16 had the people buying and volounteers this would be all but a moot point, the economy and population unfortunately is not in their favour

You're right, it would have to be a group effort.  I don't have the answers, I just know that there isn't enough support for the areas in the north.  The first priority should be to keep the main corridor trails open, define what they are and provide the resources to keep these open.  Keep in mind many of these trails only need to be groomed 2X per season and some depending on snowfall may not open at all during a given season, that should go for trails in the south as well as the north, and funds should be distributed accordingly.  I'm not sure how it happens now, but it doesn't seem as dynamic as it need to be.

 

As far as the comments from Bozo; I recommend no one respond.

 

Regardless of where you ride, have a great, safe, long season!

[Ultrafrozen]

... Keep in mind many of these trails only need to be groomed 2X per season and some depending on snowfall may not open at all during a given season, that should go for trails in the south as well as the north, ...

 

Are you referring to trails in the far south of the snowbelt?  Our trails need grooming at least once a week.

[AkronOrange]

Are you referring to trails in the far south of the snowbelt?  Our trails need grooming at least once a week.

Sorry I should have clarified: those trails that have been closed in the north typically only need to be groomed one or 2X per season.  The rest only need to be groomed as often as the snow and the traffic will dictate.

[zoso]

You wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting insurance. You would be looking at several mil if you could even find a company to bid on it.

You are out to lunch, if th OFSC can insure 35k km's of trails and all the volunteers, then it would be easy to buy insurance for 1200km of trails for very little money. I cannot believe the  forest can run without insurance as thy surely cannot buy any according to you.......

 

Several million??? You do know that the insurance for the OFSC is only about 2.5 million.

[Viperules700]

Are you referring to trails in the far south of the snowbelt? Our trails need grooming at least once a week.

Ours get done daily on weekends and a few times during the week too. We have a short season and a ton of traffic. The southern trails can see more traffic in a day, then the far north see's all winter!