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signfan
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I am ok with a increase,  to help the cause, of course. 

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4 hours ago, Turbo Doo said:

I am ok with a increase,  to help the cause, of course. 

Seems to be some sort of mental block that an increase will affect things significantly, but I’m of the opinion as you. 
Now a multi permit discount I think makes way more sense for those that are in that position. 

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6 hours ago, Turbo Doo said:

I am ok with a increase,  to help the cause, of course. 

Same. 

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Posted (edited)

They'd be foolish not to go for an increase IMO.  The south had good snow last year, sales were way up due to covid.  If not now then when?  Only folks that could really be pissed would be those in the Near North Trails Association who got screwed over by their local health unit.  Maybe the folks in Wawa as well who had a poor year.  But both areas get good snow most years.  So riders there will get good value this winter.

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Before we talk about permit increases how about an accounting of last years revenues?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sksman said:

Before we talk about permit increases how about an accounting of last years revenues?

 

 

Most of that info is easily attainable from your local club or district.

It is informative as to how the state of organized sledding is, where the money is spent.

Costs have gone way up on everything.

 

People have money for snowmobiling. Just look at the used market.

I'll not bat an eye if permit prices go up 10 or 20 percent.

 

At some point I'll have to cut a check for $22,000 for the coming sled. 

Called my insurance (co-op), gonna be just shy of $800 a year.

Premium gas is at $1.50/L

The permit is the least of the expense, and the permit means we have somewhere to ride. 

Imagine owning a boat and the lakes dried up.

Less than %1 of next years sledding will be the permit cost.

Many of us involved, as club members, living in the snow belt, don't even consider (or want to look at) what we take as a time or financial hit, so we all can ride.

 

The groomer replacement initiative IMO is doing very well, and that's in the millions of dollars a year, solely from permit money.

Newer machines simply perform better. Much better. Trails that used to be a shift and take 14 hours to groom, now take 8, allowing operators to carry on and do more trail.

My grooming area has had 3 different machines in the last few years. We made do with what we had.

2 years ago we acquired a '15 Prinoth with a mogul master drag. 

Having driven the older, lower horsepower, farm tractors with a track kit and one way blade, these Prinoths are spectacular.

Did trail repairs, easily, that simply would not be possible with the older equipment.

The district constantly reviews open trails, snow conditions, usage.

It justified us getting a newer, better machine...and we've used it to it's fullest...for the most part lol.

 

Better management of the new machine went a long way as well.

A half dozen or so operators put 600 hrs on it this year, in what was about a 6 week season.

No down time for repairs. Maintenance only.

I can't exactly tell you who that management was...but it rhymes with crispy....

 

This forum is pretty knowledgeable and reasonable.

People who bitch about the OFSC should get involved, and see exactly how the sausage gets made.

 

The permit could go to $500 and I'd still buy it.

 

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42 minutes ago, vooodooo said:

Most of that info is easily attainable from your local club or district.

It is informative as to how the state of organized sledding is, where the money is spent.

Costs have gone way up on everything.

 

People have money for snowmobiling. Just look at the used market.

I'll not bat an eye if permit prices go up 10 or 20 percent.

 

At some point I'll have to cut a check for $22,000 for the coming sled. 

Called my insurance (co-op), gonna be just shy of $800 a year.

Premium gas is at $1.50/L

The permit is the least of the expense, and the permit means we have somewhere to ride. 

Imagine owning a boat and the lakes dried up.

Less than %1 of next years sledding will be the permit cost.

Many of us involved, as club members, living in the snow belt, don't even consider (or want to look at) what we take as a time or financial hit, so we all can ride.

 

The groomer replacement initiative IMO is doing very well, and that's in the millions of dollars a year, solely from permit money.

Newer machines simply perform better. Much better. Trails that used to be a shift and take 14 hours to groom, now take 8, allowing operators to carry on and do more trail.

My grooming area has had 3 different machines in the last few years. We made do with what we had.

2 years ago we acquired a '15 Prinoth with a mogul master drag. 

Having driven the older, lower horsepower, farm tractors with a track kit and one way blade, these Prinoths are spectacular.

Did trail repairs, easily, that simply would not be possible with the older equipment.

The district constantly reviews open trails, snow conditions, usage.

It justified us getting a newer, better machine...and we've used it to it's fullest...for the most part lol.

 

Better management of the new machine went a long way as well.

A half dozen or so operators put 600 hrs on it this year, in what was about a 6 week season.

No down time for repairs. Maintenance only.

I can't exactly tell you who that management was...but it rhymes with crispy....

 

This forum is pretty knowledgeable and reasonable.

People who bitch about the OFSC should get involved, and see exactly how the sausage gets made.

 

The permit could go to $500 and I'd still buy it.

 

There is a dude (I assume dude) on here named Crispy! I'll take some of the credit, I think we all know that I'm not shy. I volunteer in various roles because I love the sport but it never hurts to hear appreciation, thank you. You and I make a great team, I was amazed by what you were able to do this year...the rock & straw bridge was genius, I lost so much sleep the night before you fixed that problem area up. The landowner and I had a culvert put in for this coming season, sorry to ruin your fun. 

 

I totally agree, it's the cheapest part of sledding!

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1 hour ago, vooodooo said:

Most of that info is easily attainable from your local club or district.

It is informative as to how the state of organized sledding is, where the money is spent.

Costs have gone way up on everything.

 

People have money for snowmobiling. Just look at the used market.

I'll not bat an eye if permit prices go up 10 or 20 percent.

 

At some point I'll have to cut a check for $22,000 for the coming sled. 

Called my insurance (co-op), gonna be just shy of $800 a year.

Premium gas is at $1.50/L

The permit is the least of the expense, and the permit means we have somewhere to ride. 

Imagine owning a boat and the lakes dried up.

Less than %1 of next years sledding will be the permit cost.

Many of us involved, as club members, living in the snow belt, don't even consider (or want to look at) what we take as a time or financial hit, so we all can ride.

 

The groomer replacement initiative IMO is doing very well, and that's in the millions of dollars a year, solely from permit money.

Newer machines simply perform better. Much better. Trails that used to be a shift and take 14 hours to groom, now take 8, allowing operators to carry on and do more trail.

My grooming area has had 3 different machines in the last few years. We made do with what we had.

2 years ago we acquired a '15 Prinoth with a mogul master drag. 

Having driven the older, lower horsepower, farm tractors with a track kit and one way blade, these Prinoths are spectacular.

Did trail repairs, easily, that simply would not be possible with the older equipment.

The district constantly reviews open trails, snow conditions, usage.

It justified us getting a newer, better machine...and we've used it to it's fullest...for the most part lol.

 

Better management of the new machine went a long way as well.

A half dozen or so operators put 600 hrs on it this year, in what was about a 6 week season.

No down time for repairs. Maintenance only.

I can't exactly tell you who that management was...but it rhymes with crispy....

 

This forum is pretty knowledgeable and reasonable.

People who bitch about the OFSC should get involved, and see exactly how the sausage gets made.

 

The permit could go to $500 and I'd still buy it.

 

You and I and many other volunteers put far more into the system in volunteer hours vs a permit fee. I'd still pay double the price to have 1/2 the idiots on the trail.

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This all being said....aren't the fees determined by a formula that the Clubs all vote to approve each year at the AGM? Something like if permit sales are up a certain percentage then the fee goes up? I don't recall but there was a table of 4 options. I'm just saying that the fee has already been decided based on that vote and permit sales last season. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, it's happened before. 😊

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@vooodooo, very well said.  Hats off to all that you do for the sport.  I never understood people who complained about the permit price. We all understand it's not a cheap sport.  But in the grand scheme of things, $200 for a permit, is nothing. 

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20 hours ago, signfan said:

They'd be foolish not to go for an increase IMO.  The south had good snow last year, sales were way up due to covid.  If not now then when?  Only folks that could really be pissed would be those in the Near North Trails Association who got screwed over by their local health unit.  Maybe the folks in Wawa as well who had a poor year.  But both areas get good snow most years.  So riders there will get good value this winter.

I care less what permit prices are , but those riders from district 10& 11 should be given a discount this season as these districts were closed for most of last season due to the decision made by an incompetent health official.

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1 hour ago, snapper said:

I care less what permit prices are , but those riders from district 10& 11 should be given a discount this season as these districts were closed for most of last season due to the decision made by an incompetent health official.

Why should they get a discount?

 

we in the south have had to constantly trailer north to get snow with the exception of last yr.

 

we was never offered a discount.

 

different circumstances but same end results 

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1 hour ago, snapper said:

I care less what permit prices are , but those riders from district 10& 11 should be given a discount this season as these districts were closed for most of last season due to the decision made by an incompetent health official.

As you mention, the decision was made by a health official. If you believe you should have restitution for permit cost you should go after the health department not the OFSC.

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9 minutes ago, ToSlow said:

Why should they get a discount?

 

we in the south have had to constantly trailer north to get snow with the exception of last yr.

 

we was never offered a discount.

 

different circumstances but same end results 

The slight twist to last year though was you were asked not to leave your health district, trails passing between them were “closed” and the OFSC supported this….. of course they had too. 
I agree with your statement, but there was more to the story last year than a normal year. 

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2 hours ago, snapper said:

I care less what permit prices are , but those riders from district 10& 11 should be given a discount this season as these districts were closed for most of last season due to the decision made by an incompetent health official.

Well said.  Let's all hope another health Official doesn't do something similar this season, my lord,  the stupidity. 

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13 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

As you mention, the decision was made by a health official. If you believe you should have restitution for permit cost you should go after the health department not the OFSC.

Totally agree with this

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3 minutes ago, Turbo Doo said:

Also True. Well said. 

One yr out of over probably 20 that some never got to ride, and most probably rode anyway. And you think they should get a discount?

 

 

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The amount of money lost due to some poor decisions by someone is the problem. The entire province had no issues with riding, other then those 2 districts.  Again, stupid decisions imo. Some rumblings from towns people in a few locals, but when sledding went off without a hitch, it really got quiet. Again, if I was in that area, I'd be extremely un happy with that decision last season. Maybe the health official could buy a few permits.  

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47 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

As you mention, the decision was made by a health official. If you believe you should have restitution for permit cost you should go after the health department not the OFSC.

Don’t recall saying I was looking for restitution but I know for a fact the businesses that rely on sledders will never forget the actions of this incompetent idiot.

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12 minutes ago, snapper said:

Don’t recall saying I was looking for restitution but I know for a fact the businesses that rely on sledders will never forget the actions of this incompetent idiot.

Sorry, I was thinking from your profile that you were from the affected area and thinking you were including yourself in " riders from District 10 and 11."  For them a discount would be a form of restitution.

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18 hours ago, snapper said:

I care less what permit prices are , but those riders from district 10& 11 should be given a discount this season as these districts were closed for most of last season due to the decision made by an incompetent health official.

Bottom line is everyone that buys an early pass gets a discount, and there is never any refunds. Everyone knew this going into the season and ofsc did offer a full system guarantee.  Last year, I wasn’t sure what was going to happen so I didn’t buy permit early. I waited then,  I bought a two day permit and turned that into full season pass, once I realized trails were staying open. 
I am guessing some will wait this season in affected area’s and buy permit and pay full if they do open. 

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17 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

As you mention, the decision was made by a health official. If you believe you should have restitution for permit cost you should go after the health department not the OFSC.

Tally them up and issue the claim - you never know....

 

 

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