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Sksman

2021 trail permits sold

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How many trail permits were sold in 2021?

 

With new sleds being sold out it should be a banner year in 2022 for permit sales and revenues.

 

 

 

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Good question - mine never left the envelope it came in.

 

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1 minute ago, Spiderman said:

Good question - mine never left the envelope it came in.

 

Bummer that sucks.  I'd call it an average season for me.  Definitely different with covid, but I got out.

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1 hour ago, Sksman said:

How many trail permits were sold in 2021?

 

With new sleds being sold out it should be a banner year in 2022 for permit sales and revenues.

 

 

 

Unless you are in a club, I doubt that info will be shared....maybe a percentage will be stated.

Too much scrutiny it seems....

I do recall an increased percentage being stated at some point through the season, but do not recall the number.

 

Now just because sled sales are up, does not mean permits sales are.....should be, but you know all those people buying brand new sleds that are only running the lakes or there back 50......:coffeenose:... LOL.

Or perhaps many just stick with the QC trails and forgot the ON trails.....a very realistic scenario I am sure.

 

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9 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

Good question - mine never left the envelope it came in.

 

Ya, that sucks spidy....but good on you for buying the pass!

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I'm sure if you would contact the club, they should let you know. At our meetings (and there are non-executive members present) that info is released.

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10 minutes ago, revrnd said:

I'm sure if you would contact the club, they should let you know. At our meetings (and there are non-executive members present) that info is released.

Only reason I would ever contact my club would be to volunteer or tell them what a kick ass job they do year in and year out.

 

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Why this info can't be made public season after season is beyond me. I know some seasons it's released in a pie graph or something like that, but what's the issue. 

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Just curious - are a significant amount of trail passes sold to people in the US? If so that must have hurt for this past season. I don't know if it's a small number or quite a bit.

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3 hours ago, Spiderman said:

Good question - mine never left the envelope it came in.

 

I put on the most amount of KM I ever have.  Almost 4000 between 2 sleds, and always from my driveway in D9 and D5.  Almost all within my Health unit also.

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28 minutes ago, Turbo Doo said:

Why this info can't be made public season after season is beyond me. I know some seasons it's released in a pie graph or something like that, but what's the issue. 

 

 

I believe the reason is because permits belong to the MTO (instrument of the province), the OFSC is the exclusive selling agent of the permit and distributor of the funds to the districts (formerly clubs). Legally that info can only be shared to these stake holders, which includes districts, clubs and their members. 

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21 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Just curious - are a significant amount of trail passes sold to people in the US? If so that must have hurt for this past season. I don't know if it's a small number or quite a bit.

That's a good question. I've been involved in clubs in Ontario for over 30 years and I have never heard anyone quote a figure on out of province or out of country permit sales. Maybe another club member has and can chime in.

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I got all of 475 Km on my pass before the kidney stones hit.  It was over in the wink of an eye.

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43 minutes ago, Turbo Doo said:

Why this info can't be made public season after season is beyond me. I know some seasons it's released in a pie graph or something like that, but what's the issue. 

Nutters response makes sense to me.

 

My only question - truthfully, would be other than for some minor interest sake, what difference would/does it make if you know this information or not?

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Dave K said:

I put on the most amount of KM I ever have.  Almost 4000 between 2 sleds, and always from my driveway in D9 and D5.  Almost all within my Health unit also.

Its funny, I was expecting that to be my situation with Covid etc., but it actually turned out to be the worst year I have ever had for sledding mileage since I have been born.

A lot variables etc. out of my control - is what it is - just another crap thing to add to the pile of dissapointing news for 2020/2021.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

Nutters response makes sense to me.

 

My only question - truthfully, would be other than for some minor interest sake, what difference would/does it make if you know this information or not?

 

 

I think most sledders are passionate about the sport, but understand certain criteria must be met to continue with some level of success, permits sold being one of them.

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1 hour ago, Nutter said:

 

 

I believe the reason is because permits belong to the MTO (instrument of the province), the OFSC is the exclusive selling agent of the permit and distributor of the funds to the districts (formerly clubs). Legally that info can only be shared to these stake holders, which includes districts, clubs and their members. 

It's released to the clubs and districts.  I don't think it's any big secret.  US sales would be off, but the surge in Ontario riders more than made up for it.  Sales were up, but I haven't seen the final figures.  Being a government permit freedom of information would obligate the province to release the numbers if one asked.  I'm sure there's easier ways to attain it though.

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1 hour ago, Nutter said:

 

 

I believe the reason is because permits belong to the MTO (instrument of the province), the OFSC is the exclusive selling agent of the permit and distributor of the funds to the districts (formerly clubs). Legally that info can only be shared to these stake holders, which includes districts, clubs and their members. 

There is no such law. Much like telling us how many plated cars are in the province.

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14 minutes ago, signfan said:

It's released to the clubs and districts.  I don't think it's any big secret.  US sales would be off, but the surge in Ontario riders more than made up for it.  Sales were up, but I haven't seen the final figures.  Being a government permit freedom of information would obligate the province to release the numbers if one asked.  I'm sure there's easier ways to attain it though.

 

As the old saying goes, if one has enough concern over such numbers then they should have enough concern to be involved with their local club at some capacity, where they will be able to see all those numbers. 

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1 minute ago, zoso said:

There is no such law. Much like telling us how many plated cars are in the province.

I'm not saying there's a law but you can bet there is a contractual chain of custody with all information collected through trail permit sales.

 

Could a private service Ontario outlet publicly release provincial MTO stats ?

 

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I bought in early February and paid full price and got permit number

I088474. If in order and they should be that would be 88474 sold as first week of feb. just not sure if classic numbers are inbetween that start or stop or do they have thier own unique sequence numbering system.  

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42 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

That's a good question. I've been involved in clubs in Ontario for over 30 years and I have never heard anyone quote a figure on out of province or out of country permit sales. Maybe another club member has and can chime in.

 

I have talked a bit with a couple clubs where I ride often and have been warmly received over the past 20 years.  These clubs over the years have naturally had lots of cross border riders from the USA.  The Alouettes and the Trailblazers once had many trail passes sold to people from the states.  I know that since the 9-11 attack the world has changed.  Passports, exchange rates, the loss of local permit sales, no more try our trails free weekend, no more 1-day passes, and now border closings due to covid all have come into play. I think at one time after the close of the wood mill in Dub, US permits helped maintain the minimums of permit sales needed to remain a club.    

 

It is much harder for me to get riders to visit Ontario with me for a weekend.  There was a time when the guys would decide to go across the border for a quick ride and just grab a day pass at the party store or ski hill in Searchmont and run up to Halfway and back.  It's no longer easy.  Canadian's don't understand that the majority of people in the US don't have a passport, just as my 4th passport has expired and I am in no hurry to get a new one.  I live in Michigan where an enhanced drivers license which I do have also works.  Many states don't offer such.  Some haven't paid attention to the new "on line" pick your club where you ride most either.  I spent some time trying to pick my clubs when I got Quebec Permits and it was not easy to get where I wanted it to go since language is another barrier. 

 

It is an expensive well planned process now and the numbers touring have also dropped.  When I ask do you have a DUI, insurance, passport or enhanced DL, the trip plans end and they say,  "let's just go to the UP".  

 

If the D trail is closed, I might invest in a deep snow sled and see if I can make it up the old D trail to Chapleau from Searchmont.  Maybe ox and ski can come and show me how it's done?      

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1 hour ago, Nutter said:

I'm not saying there's a law but you can bet there is a contractual chain of custody with all information collected through trail permit sales.

 

Could a private service Ontario outlet publicly release provincial MTO stats ?

 

They sure could. As long as no personal in no was attached.

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2 hours ago, stoney said:

I think most sledders are passionate about the sport, but understand certain criteria must be met to continue with some level of success, permits sold being one of them.

X2. And it would be nice to know some stats. Pretty easy to show stats, information would go along way. 

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8 minutes ago, zoso said:

They sure could. As long as no personal in no was attached.

I think you would need to file a request officially through their Freedom of Information Office and my suspicion is that it would be declined, but one could always try.

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