95rxl650 Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 Time for me to start the used sled hunt once again and looking for help from folks with similar riding styles. I need to get back to a tight and twisty trail rocket. Full throttle or full brake, not much in between. I know alot of folks deny riding like an idiot and some condemn it, but it is what it is...I cant help it. I head out at night so I know when other sleds are oncoming. Mostly few and far between and most are night riding because they too are getting their thrill on. For me, the old couch sleds into early 2000's were on rails compared to the offerings in later years but the suspension was non existent. Fine when your a young man and your legs were your suspension but not so much these days. So I graduated to newer sleds like all of us and never got the results I was after. First up was an 06 Rev ss500... maybe the best of the bunch. Followed by a host of others and finally looked to reliability. The 4strokes. Reason was reliability as night riding became solo riding. Apex was first up. A beast with an unmatched exhaust note that made smile big shyte eating grins, but not a trail sled by a long shot. A Z1 Jag which wasnt bad once dialled in with the right amount of studs. Then a ZR7000 and that Yamaha exhaust note again. In between I tried out a couple Etec Rmotions and even back to an old 2000 Doo 700 Deluxe. The old doo being the most fun of the bunch but the inevitable spine shots are brutal these days. Had a couple XC700 liberties in there that were a blast too. My favorite's were the 90's Polaris and Yamaha triples. Once dialled in, they were by far the best bush banging sleds out there. Clutching was everything. Low wide and stable. Had to work hard to flip em. So, I havent had any seat time on modern 2 strokes other than a couple 2016-18 doo etecs that I didnt like. I want some form of reliability if thats possible with todays 2 strokes. A 600 class sled I think. Big HP 2 strokes dont exactly equate to reliable imo. I dont care who gets across the lake first. Tight and twisty bush trails mostly in the upper district 9 area. East, west and north of Owen Sound. For those that ride or have ridden this area, you'll understand that the big 4 strokes will wear you out if ride aggressively for extended periods. Another ZR/Viper 129 is in the works for leisurely riding. Do they even manufacture a sled now days that fits the bill?? I know that with todays suspensions, Low and stable is a tough ask, but whats the closest thing to it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderman Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 I don't understand why all the hate or reliability non-sense on 2 strokes.................. It is all we have ever owned, period, and in all those years and all those sleds, we have blown up 2. My Ultra 680 blew up after 5000 miles with heavy heavy mods to it - it was going to happen - no way to avoid it with what was done to it. The other was an XC 600 - had less than 800 miles on it - under warranty - never happened again. We have owned so many 2 strokes between myself and my parents and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one for a second. We mostly ride Muskoka, tight twisties, the idea of throwing a 4 stroke around there all day still has no interest to me. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 Great topic. No first hand experience, but the Poo,s seem to be the most aggressive chassis the last few/many years for that style of riding being similar to riding a dirt bike people say. The new Cat sounds like a home run in that category as well, some are suggesting better than the poo….but that would be a next to brand new sled since last year was first year for it. both have competent 600 that seems reliable with plenty of power for twisty trails. I always ran 2 smoke up until my last sled, that’s a 4 stroke doo. Next to zero issues for me as well on 2 smokes….and I kept most of them for a while. I also never liked holding my 2 smokes to the bar for long times, do not mind with my current sled…but unless running lakes, not many trails in that region where this is a big factor. If I ran just around this area, I might have not bought a 4 stroke…considered for years to buy one, then finally did, but I found myself riding much less in our back yard and more north Ontario or Quebec trails. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christy Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 I ride the same area if local riding is available, North Bay-Sudbury-Cochrane if not. Years ago I had a RX-1 and took it on the tight & twisty trails to Tobermory from Owen Sound (and back the next day with a hangover) so I feel your pain with that type of sled on these trails! I miss it in the rolling hills near Desboro and lakes up north but for all other trails a 600 skidoo is my favourite. Currently on a 2019 Blizzard, sometimes a 2020 Adrenaline. I like both but am really used to the Blizzard so it is my first pick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95rxl650 Posted August 20 Author Share Posted August 20 Spiderman: We used to run around Gravenhurst/Bracebridge alot and out of Ahmic Harbour. Nice wide flat trails compared to many around here. Not to mention the boulders and stumps. We used the bases of tree's to help get around the corners. lol I've ridden 2strokes for well over 40 years but back in the day they didnt make enough horse power to worry about them coming apart. New crank seals and carb boots once in awhile and they were bullet proof. Stoney: 4 stokes are relatively new to me also and I do like them, I just miss the ruff and tumble of the old 2 strokes. For long days though, the four stoke is nice. Christy: Ahhhh yes. The Colonel's had me riding at a crawl with my helmet off the next morning more than once. Breakfast at the diner and the horrible ride home. Our wives were smarter than us boys and trailered up. lol I had 2017 Blizzard I bought from Ronnie but I could never get rid of inside ski lift enough to make me comfortable. My wife loved it coming from an Apex. The Apex had no studs and scared the crap out of her a couple times. Being honest, it always had my full attention too. Praying for a good winter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re:Leaf Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Polaris 650, Skidoo 600r, or possibly Skidoo 900ace non turbo would be my recommendation for tight and twisty trail sled. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderman Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 4 hours ago, 95rxl650 said: Spiderman: We used to run around Gravenhurst/Bracebridge alot and out of Ahmic Harbour. Nice wide flat trails compared to many around here. Not to mention the boulders and stumps. We used the bases of tree's to help get around the corners. lol I've ridden 2strokes for well over 40 years but back in the day they didnt make enough horse power to worry about them coming apart. New crank seals and carb boots once in awhile and they were bullet proof. Stoney: 4 stokes are relatively new to me also and I do like them, I just miss the ruff and tumble of the old 2 strokes. For long days though, the four stoke is nice. Christy: Ahhhh yes. The Colonel's had me riding at a crawl with my helmet off the next morning more than once. Breakfast at the diner and the horrible ride home. Our wives were smarter than us boys and trailered up. lol I had 2017 Blizzard I bought from Ronnie but I could never get rid of inside ski lift enough to make me comfortable. My wife loved it coming from an Apex. The Apex had no studs and scared the crap out of her a couple times. Being honest, it always had my full attention too. Praying for a good winter. They made decent horsepower, they were just built better and with better quality components. Things/times have changed, but I still would not hesitate to purchase a current two stroke, and certainly would not fear holding it to the bar. I'm not a four stroke sled guy - not sure I ever will be. I guess like everything else, I'm stubborn, I like what I like and will go down the with the ship if I don't want to change. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Unfortunately i didnt put a lot of miles on my doo turbo last year but it really didnt feel that much different than my old 850. Just had more zip down low. Hopefully we have some bloddy snow this year to ride. I do notice when we ride now if im behind a 2 stroke from the smell. I like the 4 stroke smokeless running. However, I wouldnt hesitate to buy a 2 stroke again. I really like my sons 850 Assault. But not for long rides I still think the best sled for Muskoka i ever had was my 2010 600 etec X.............that 600 was a sweet motor and was fast enough. We need snow and in reality it makes no difference what you ride. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95rxl650 Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 By comparison, these wee 2 strokes are high strung ticken time bombs. I seen so many 800, 900 and 1000 through the 2000's blowin up that they just turned me off buying one. These sleds with 4000k on them were a risky purchase. I had 22000 or so on a 2006 doo SS and no problems. About the same on an ol XLT 600. Those were in the range of 90hp. Compare them to a new corvette for example. 2 strokes even back in the mid 2000's were making a minimum of 3 times and even 4 times the hp per volume of the Vette. Boat motors get you about 40hp per 1000cc's. So I guess my question is really, are there 2 strokes out there now that would compare to the doo the old Doo 597 engine in terms of reliability? We had a 16 and 17 Blizzard. The 2016 has 12k on it when we sold it. Looked and ran like new and still see it around today. It got bought out from under me on the side of the trail. I have faith in those sleds, but didnt like them for my riding style. Great for riding with my wife or a group, but when it was time to climb on the tank, it wasnt a good fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sksman Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 What’s your budget? And what size are you? I ride a variety of trails from local near Orillia, to Muskoka, to Northern Ontario to Quebec. I have a 2019 XC 600 that rides great can hang pretty good with the 850’s and 4s turbos in the trails. Lakes it’s not terrible with most of guys I ride with. I love my 850 Assault with suspension mods. Fun ride. But it’s work on tight twisties. Last 2 seasons I have ridden with my buddies and spent considerable time on Skidoo 600, 1200, 850 XRS, 900 turbo, Cat ZR 9000, Polaris XC 600, Assault 850, 850 VR1 Boost and XCR 850. Not sure on exact letters on all the skidoos. But the fastest 2 sleds (biggest idiots) were the 2 guys who owned the XCRs. Personally for my height and body size I prefer the seating position of the Polaris sleds. I am 6’2” and 300lbs. My choice would be 850 XCR or 850 VR1. Forget the 600 or 650. This year I will be riding a 850 VR1 for a change but the Assault will be in my garage as a spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95rxl650 Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 I was sooo close to to pulling the trigger on a 19 Indy 600 last year. I rode one Indy or another from the late 80's into the mid 2000's. I only had time for 1 sled last season and made the wrong choice. I'm a small guy with no budget. Semi retired with zero debt. If my back could still handle the spine shots, I'd still be riding late 90's to mid 2000's 121" tracks. There's no lakes to run around here and nothing gets through the bush faster. Unfortunately, I have no seat time on a wide variety of sleds. Had a couple new 600 Blizzards and the 14 ZR7000. Rest are older sleds. Z1 cat, a couple Apex's. I just dont have the shoulder strength to have fun on those anymore. Pins and screws keep me together and all that old muscle trauma is coming back to haunt me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderman Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 My dad is 76 and rides a 121" Indy 600. My mom is 75 and rides a 121" Indy 600 They work well 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1049 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 I think any brand of 600 would fit the type of riding you plan on doing . I’ve been riding 850 renegades since 2019 sidewinders before that and Vipers before that . I’ve really enjoyed the 850 s but for this year I have a 900r coming hope I’m not making a mistake 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95rxl650 Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 12 hours ago, Spiderman said: My dad is 76 and rides a 121" Indy 600. My mom is 75 and rides a 121" Indy 600 They work well I came close to one last year and ended up with the ZR7000. I think the Indy might be my sled of interest this year. Thats pretty impressive, still riding at their age. Were they also school days sweethearts? My wife and I have known each other for 45 years. She decided back then that I was the one she'd corral and break. I'm still prone to a little bucking. lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 no Cat mentioned yet......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95rxl650 Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 I ran across a couple while hunting last season. They were the TEC2 600's but both had a around the 10k on them and a premium price imo. Not knowing anything about the motor it was a quick pass. I dont think I'd ever buy new again. I enjoy getting a sled up to snuff and have been through multiple sleds in a season. I think it was 2021 I had 4 different sleds. 2022 I had none. Had cataract surgery on both eyes that winter. My wife was a hard NO to sleds. Said I was too stupid to stay off them. I prefer enthusiastic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Farmer Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 On 8/22/2024 at 8:35 AM, 95rxl650 said: I ran across a couple while hunting last season. They were the TEC2 600's but both had a around the 10k on them and a premium price imo. Not knowing anything about the motor it was a quick pass. I dont think I'd ever buy new again. I enjoy getting a sled up to snuff and have been through multiple sleds in a season. I think it was 2021 I had 4 different sleds. 2022 I had none. Had cataract surgery on both eyes that winter. My wife was a hard NO to sleds. Said I was too stupid to stay off them. I prefer enthusiastic. Etec 600 is very realiable. Not a power house but it was realiable. Thinking of getting a poo 650 vr1 or xcr if I can find one that has ice ripper track. I am finished with all bs that comes with traditional studs. 850's and 800's seem to be more trouble and not as reliable. Those you want to own only while under warranty. Still love old stuff but most don't have reverse and harder to get parts now too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sksman Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 2 hours ago, Strong Farmer said: Etec 600 is very realiable. Not a power house but it was realiable. Thinking of getting a poo 650 vr1 or xcr if I can find one that has ice ripper track. I am finished with all bs that comes with traditional studs. 850's and 800's seem to be more trouble and not as reliable. Those you want to own only while under warranty. Still love old stuff but most don't have reverse and harder to get parts now too. What BS comes with traditional studs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Farmer Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 29 minutes ago, Sksman said: What BS comes with traditional studs? Tear outs, heat exchanger damage when they fly out at 100 mph and loose coolant, ending your trip. Too many roads in south to have traditional studs. Want to try ice ripper this time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95rxl650 Posted August 27 Author Share Posted August 27 I found the ice ripper fine for most riding but I dont trust them in icy trail conditions. If you like hard acceleration then they just dont do the job. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 11 hours ago, Strong Farmer said: Tear outs, heat exchanger damage when they fly out at 100 mph and loose coolant, ending your trip. Too many roads in south to have traditional studs. Want to try ice ripper this time. 1 hour ago, 95rxl650 said: I found the ice ripper fine for most riding but I dont trust them in icy trail conditions. If you like hard acceleration then they just dont do the job. These two posts reflect my experience with studs. After years of traditional studs, with pull outs and resultant exchanger leaks, I tried 2 consecutive sleds with Ice Ripper tracts. Great tracks 90 percent of the time, but not when the trail is really icy and hilly. I am back to conventional suds again, with some pull outs but no holes in heat exchanger yet. Next track, I will go back to ice ripper style and just slow down when it's icy. I am told that, that is how I should ride in my mid seventies anyway. I have been listening lately and sledding is still fun, so I hope we get some snow this season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledguy74 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 I went to an ice ripper track on my adventure 650 and will be going back to studs if I ever buy again i did not notice the added traction you do with traditional studding same with braking, almost fell off twice with it slid in a couple of turns that had ice and I was use to the studs providing the grip just my opinion on the topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 1 hour ago, tricky said: These two posts reflect my experience with studs. After years of traditional studs, with pull outs and resultant exchanger leaks, I tried 2 consecutive sleds with Ice Ripper tracts. Great tracks 90 percent of the time, but not when the trail is really icy and hilly. I am back to conventional suds again, with some pull outs but no holes in heat exchanger yet. Next track, I will go back to ice ripper style and just slow down when it's icy. I am told that, that is how I should ride in my mid seventies anyway. I have been listening lately and sledding is still fun, so I hope we get some snow this season. Current sled is the IR and I find it a very happy medium between no studs and needing some studs for the odd icy conditions or a lake with minimal snow cover.....keep in mind I came from no studs for 10+ years. I agree that the southern trails with marginal conditions make running studs a hazard....but those same marginal conditions also create more ice in the corners where you need traction.....but I rarely ride in the "southern regions". I have had zero of oh crap moments with current sled and IR track, but again, I rode with no studs for a while, so know what to expect or adjust accordingly as needed to avoid those moments. My sled with its newer power enhancements now has me considering traditional studs since it is now quite noticeable the lack of traction when you pull the throttle......I would like to add studs to my IR, but I know there are mixed reviews on that and if I really want studs, I should replace the track. To stud or not to stud...always a mixed bag of opinions!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderman Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Never had a tear/out - exchanger issue ever. Every sled I have owned except my 500 Indy Trail has been studded. Won't ride Ontario without em 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Farmer Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 42 minutes ago, Spiderman said: Never had a tear/out - exchanger issue ever. Every sled I have owned except my 500 Indy Trail has been studded. Won't ride Ontario without em Depends where you ride. Pavement and frozen dirt is really hard on them in south. We seem to either have good snow or no snow lately. Not allot of ice in this region really. Your region with proper snow cover they tend to last. Still road running in places too. Rocks can be issues too and cause them to deflect and tear out as well. I am looking forward to trying an ice ripper this winter. It give me enough traction I won't be going down that big hill backwards with my feet out sideways any more 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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