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GrizzlyGriff

Warning to you guys with "cans"

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3 hours ago, Jason T said:

West Nippissing / North Bay

images.jpg

Thats the pic I was thinking of. It accompanied an article in the news last winter. 

 

https://devspace1.smartmarkit.com/2019/01/28/north-bay-snowmobilers-issued-ultimatum/

 

This isn't new it was all over Faceplant & the forums last winter.  Anyone caught in North Bay pretty much is on their own.

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2 hours ago, SRXChris said:

Was he upset with the tune or aftermarket can?  

I am thinking the aftermarket exhaust.  Theres NO way to tell a sled has a tune. And thats not a problem in my opinion.  Tresspassers and aftermarket exhaust is.....

 

If somehow they figure out and go down the path of being against tunes,  im done...

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5 minutes ago, TURBO DOO said:

I am thinking the aftermarket exhaust.  Theres NO way to tell a sled has a tune. And thats not a problem in my opinion.  Tresspassers and aftermarket exhaust is.....

 

If somehow they figure out and go down the path of being against tunes,  im done...

I doubt many sledders w/ cans have a sled that is 'tuned'.

 

Swapping the OEM muffler for a can is pretty much the limit of their mechanical abilities. One step up from installing their Monster & TEAM LTD decals...

:baghead:

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41 minutes ago, Ox said:

This is 100% wrong too.

 

You could have* an aftermarket exhaust that is as quiet, or even more quiet that OEM.

Requiring that it be OEM is bad.

 

 

* I understand that is not normally the case, but this could happen more and more if it had to be.

The market is getting more that way all the time.

It's already not the wild west like it was 25 years ago.

It may be wrong Ox but it is the law in Ontario (and sounds like Quebec as well. (No pun intended) I'm would be willing to bet that if a sled had one of the "just as quiet" cans installed that the OPP would not question it being stock when stopped. They are just trying to uphold the law and keep landowners happy thereby keeping trails open in Ontario.  The only way the law will change is if some party can convince the government that allowing quiet cans is better for Ontario than the law they have now.

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I'm all for quiet pipes.

Don't get me wrong!

I've hated those loud things for 25 years!

It blows my mind that it is still an issue to this day.

 

The previous owner has aloud pipes on my truck, and it's just wastefull to replace until they die, but when they doo - it will be quiet again!

 

Pulled a load out to Colorado a few years ago, and it was high profile and pulled like a sail. Pipe was enough to run you out of the truck all the way. 

 

I doo still think that twins on a V8 with cherry's or other can sound nice - for a while...

But a diesel with a single sounds like a sick cow.

We had a 4020 with an M&W turbo [and a straight pipe] on it when I was a kid, and I LOVED to run that tractor!

But I was young then too....

I'm over it...

Edited by Ox

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4 hours ago, Jason T said:

West Nippissing / North Bay

images.jpg

There ya have it.. I wish they'd do the same with bikes (harleys) in the summer, they can be wayyyy more obnoxious that a modified sled

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I have a 100% stock sled (Yamaha Nytro) and I have had issues a few times going through spot checks where the OPP have hassled me saying my exhaust is too loud.  When I tell them the sled is stock they don't believe me.  Now I have never had a ticket and it doesn't happen all the time. It has happened a hand full of times.

 

I also agree that the pipes are too loud and annoying. The C trail goes right through the back of our property and when someone goes by in the middle of the night with a huge braaap it sucks.

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1 minute ago, GibsonNytro said:

I have a 100% stock sled (Yamaha Nytro) and I have had issues a few times going through spot checks where the OPP have hassled me saying my exhaust is too loud.  When I tell them the sled is stock they don't believe me.  Now I have never had a ticket and it doesn't happen all the time. It has happened a hand full of times.

 

I also agree that the pipes are too loud and annoying. The C trail goes right through the back of our property and when someone goes by in the middle of the night with a huge braaap it sucks.

 

And you're a sledder! Imagine what a non-snowmobiler thinks...

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8 minutes ago, revrnd said:

 

And you're a sledder! Imagine what a non-snowmobiler thinks...

Yeah, no kidding.

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24 minutes ago, GibsonNytro said:

I have a 100% stock sled (Yamaha Nytro) and I have had issues a few times going through spot checks where the OPP have hassled me saying my exhaust is too loud.  When I tell them the sled is stock they don't believe me.  Now I have never had a ticket and it doesn't happen all the time. It has happened a hand full of times.

 

I also agree that the pipes are too loud and annoying. The C trail goes right through the back of our property and when someone goes by in the middle of the night with a huge braaap it sucks.

this is the EXACT SCENARIO, for needing a DB limit, and testing, than to just use an antiquated law, that says, no modifications to exhaust systems. dont get me wrong, i am not a fan of the loud braaaaap cans AT ALL BUT, there NEEDS TO BE a procedure, and test to determine if the exhaust is too loud. join our decade, and our technology. get a test. 88 db or less. make the aftermarket, AND the oem comply. that is FAIR. right now it is the wild west, and the law enforcement agencies decide for us, who and what should be looked at, with only the "WE THINK IT IS TOO LOUD, OPEN YOUR HOOD". Ski

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10 minutes ago, skidooboy said:

this is the EXACT SCENARIO, for needing a DB limit, and testing, than to just use an antiquated law, that says, no modifications to exhaust systems. dont get me wrong, i am not a fan of the loud braaaaap cans AT ALL BUT, there NEEDS TO BE a procedure, and test to determine if the exhaust is too loud. join our decade, and our technology. get a test. 88 db or less. make the aftermarket, AND the oem comply. that is FAIR. right now it is the wild west, and the law enforcement agencies decide for us, who and what should be looked at, with only the "WE THINK IT IS TOO LOUD, OPEN YOUR HOOD". Ski

 

'ski, that's in a perfect world. You know how the politicians go for the easiest method. 'Not stock, it's not legal'.

 

Some of you have posted about the 'quiet cans' that are compliant, but how much of the market do they command? The yahoos (that's putting it mildly) don't want a quiet exhaust. They want to be as loud a possible as they braap braap braap thru the gas station parking lot, so others will notice their highly tuned sled... 

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1 hour ago, revrnd said:

I doubt many sledders w/ cans have a sled that is 'tuned'.

 

Swapping the OEM muffler for a can is pretty much the limit of their mechanical abilities. One step up from installing their Monster & TEAM LTD decals...

:baghead:

LMFAO..:rotflmao:

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I  assumed that a 290 hp tune required a change from a stock muffler.  I  guess my buddy thought he was OK with the quiet version of the aftermarket can. I  certainly don't support loud cans. His Sidewinder now with its deep tone seems quieter than a stock Apex with its loud whine 

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In all fairness to the <88db issue...

 

I'd bet that most of the high volume cans will pass that, as the test is "at" or "off idle" I think is how it's werded? (USA)

 

But it's once you get over 6000 rpm and under power that they git loud.

So - I'm not sure that a field test is going to werk?

 

It may need to be more in line with California's CARB - where a manufacturer needs to produce their product to testing and get a variance number.

 

 

Some of y'all may recall the issue of Hot Rod about 35years ago when the title of the main article was "Can they outlaw Hot Rodding?"

It was in response to the CARB, and that it wasn't likely that hardly anyone would $pend the $ to git clearance.

35 yrs later, and it seems that - yes - many ARE getting their CARB numbers.

 

 

Edited by Ox

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1 hour ago, skidooboy said:

this is the EXACT SCENARIO, for needing a DB limit, and testing, than to just use an antiquated law, that says, no modifications to exhaust systems. dont get me wrong, i am not a fan of the loud braaaaap cans AT ALL BUT, there NEEDS TO BE a procedure, and test to determine if the exhaust is too loud. join our decade, and our technology. get a test. 88 db or less. make the aftermarket, AND the oem comply. that is FAIR. right now it is the wild west, and the law enforcement agencies decide for us, who and what should be looked at, with only the "WE THINK IT IS TOO LOUD, OPEN YOUR HOOD". Ski

 

This. Push back intensely until this is established and the aftermarket will comply and they can keep selling their stuff. The Government peeps do take the easy road, DON'T MAKE GIVING UP FREEDOMS EASY!!! After all this is a freedom. Be the squeaky wheel here and be respectful and intelligent about it.

 

I dont like the loud cans anymore either but as power goes up so does decibels its a fact. There are ways to tune a muffler to compliance at pretty much any power level, to practically any DB level its only a matter of cost, and WEIGHT. Two things no one willingly asks for more of

Edited by crispy

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The law was written to disallow cans because it is too much to ask that a dyno get set up on the side of the trail and get a DB reading under load.

At idle, many cans will still be under the noise limit, but under load will be above.

I think it's a reasonable law and abide by it. 

We as sledders, can not afford to alienate land owners and the general public.

 

 

Was at our clubhouse last week while staking with the Skandic superwide snowtractor. Closed trails btw. Saw a sled parked out front, no new permit, had last year's. Continued on staking, came back to the clubhouse and the owner of the sled was there, with the side panel open..had a can about a third the size of the stock muffler. Seems his battery was fooked, sled was there all night..a local. He had a booster pack, but the battery was so far gone it still did not start.

I was going to tell him to pound salt and instigate a trespass to property thing but struck up a conversation instead.

The owner of the sled is the nephew of one of our best, most reasonable easy to get along with land owners.

Crap.

Explained to him that cans close trails. Went home and got my booster pack. Still no start. Towed him and his sled to the garage just up the trail and used a full size battery and cables and it started..

Really hope he gets rid of the can.

What would you guys have done?

 

Edited by vooodooo
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1 hour ago, Ox said:

In all fairness to the <88db issue...

 

I'd bet that most of the high volume cans will pass that, as the test is "at" or "off idle" I think is how it's werded? (USA)

 

But it's once you get over 6000 rpm and under power that they git loud.

So - I'm not sure that a field test is going to werk?

 

It may need to be more in line with California's CARB - where a manufacturer needs to produce their product to testing and get a variance number.

 

 

Some of y'all may recall the issue of Hot Rod about 35years ago when the title of the main article was "Can they outlaw Hot Rodding?"

It was in response to the CARB, and that it wasn't likely that hardly anyone would $pend the $ to git clearance.

35 yrs later, and it seems that - yes - many ARE getting their CARB numbers.

 

 

from michigan but, this is the test used in the states... the muffler on a snowmobile must be in good working order and, when in constant operation, noise emission cannot exceed 88 decibels at 13.1 feet, as measured using the 2004 Society of Automotive Engineers standard J2567 for a stationary snowmobile manufactured after July 1, 1980.

 

it is measured with the db reader (sound listening device, not a DYNO), it is measured for several seconds at or above 4000 rpms. SOME brap cans will pass 88 db at idle but, even stock ones fail at 4000 rpms at 13.1 feet. IT IS A STRICT TEST. and testers are reasonable, in costs. 

 

everyone can agree getting control of the noise is our goal but, everyone should also support a better system than just, NO MODIFIED EXHAUSTS. technically if you were to get a power tripping cop... you painted your rusty stock pipe, polished your heat shields on the pipe or muffler... HERE IS YOUR TICKET, FOR MODIFYING YOUR EXHAUST. food for more thought in the summer, the db limit for atv's and dirt bikes for trail and tracks is 104db (which is LOUD). 88 db is acceptable and achievable.

 

i would bet anyone here, if i didnt say a word, you would have no idea, i have a can on my sled, and you wouldnt ask me to open my hood, or have "the talk" with me about how loud my sled is. i understand i am in the minority but, we need to stop painting with those broad brushes. there are acceptable alternatives. Ski

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4 hours ago, TURBO DOO said:

If somehow they figure out and go down the path of being against tunes,  im done...

Before supplying coverage, at least one insurer (Monnex Meloche), asks whether the snowmobile has been modified.

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i'd be nice to see what fer cans are getting the attention, and see how they pass the test.

 

I'm not a believer in a test @ clutch engagement rpm.

I have rode with guys before that I didn't know they had a can until they powered over a hill or drift under power, and then I could hear them. (from behind me of course ;-) )

 

But then my chum with an 800 Summit 174 that I rode with a few weeks ago, he bought it used and it had a can on it, and I never thought that I heard a can at all.

I have no clue what fer can it is...

 

 

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english ox, english. :D Ski

 

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11 minutes ago, Blake G said:

Before supplying coverage, at least one insurer (Monnex Meloche), asks whether the snowmobile has been modified.

 

In any particular sense?

 

I have added a rack on mine, and I plan to add a cpl power leads yet.

 

My old sled has a "new" (not BRP) tunnel under it.

I added a 16 x 16x track.

I put dual ring pistons in it.

I put an aftermarket head on it. 

I pulled the internal crank seals and drilled the case.

I put those fancy powder pre-filters on it.

I made my own replaceable radius rods.

I put scratchers on it.

more I'm sure....

 

The motor mods are in line with durability.

 

What concern is it for insurance?

 

 

Now if we bought a 500F/A and stuffed a blown 900 under the hood, then that would seem to be of concern.

 

 

???

 

 

.

Edited by Ox

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3 minutes ago, skidooboy said:

english ox, english. :D Ski

 

 

Bi-lingual?

 

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38 minutes ago, Blake G said:

Before supplying coverage, at least one insurer (Monnex Meloche), asks whether the snowmobile has been modified.

Yeah what constitutes modified?  Snow tracker carbides? Choko handlebar muffs. Aftermarket exhaust? That's a BS question from a BS insurer.  

 

I'm definately on board for enforcing the laws we have.  Nothing wrong with stock exhaust systems.  Good to hear the cops are out enforcing the law.

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1 hour ago, skidooboy said:

noise emission cannot exceed 88 decibels at 13.1 feet, as measured using the 2004 Society of Automotive Engineers standard J2567 for a stationary snowmobile manufactured after July 1, 1980.

 

 

Thanks for the stats - my pipes are within spec:

 

pipes.mp3

 

 

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1 hour ago, Blake G said:

Before supplying coverage, at least one insurer (Monnex Meloche), asks whether the snowmobile has been modified.

I believe this is being taken out of context.  I have been asked this question by insurers about other vehicles as well, including cars and trucks.  I think the intent of the question is to establish a maximum insured value. That info, on file, would prevent an insured party from claiming anything extra in case of a claim.

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