More On The Snow

[reevester]

I have a little, and would love too do more, but I don't have the time.. And I'm not vastly experienced. But I do have some knowledge on the subject that I have been trying to share. But it seems some are just too hardheaded to listen. If someone refuses to have a discussion, but instead wants to simply go on about how great of a job they are doing, what can you do?

So just excuses. Nutter is a pretty busy fellow as well but still manages to do a lot for his club and the ofsc. Have you seen what the polar bear riders have done with a Facebook page. They even have signs on the trails asking to like their page.

[02Sled]

A few years ago the OFSC had a booth at the Fall Cottage Life Show which I thought was a positive move in marketing. They had / have a great opportunity to attract new sledders in this type of venue but to the best of my knowledge it was a one time thing. I spoke with huge numbers of cottagers that were curious about the sport but didn't have any idea of how or where to begin. A booth with a couple of those videos, a sled to grab attention and trail maps for the districts to be able to show the trails in the person's area would be a great marketing opportunity. If you could partner with a sled dealer who could talk about affordable sledding it would be even better

[Nith Valley Sledder]

The "give it a try" tour they ran for a few seasons seemed to be pretty successful in getting people interested in snowmobiling. I volunteered with the local event for a couple years and there were people ready to buy a sled on the spot after coming back from their ride.

I'm sure it wasn't a cheap undertaking to put the event on but all the manufacturers had sleds in the pool. Choko, I believe, supplied most of the gear. People just had to show up and the team outfitted them for the ride. The pre-ride training was pretty good and a few people that weren't confident enough to take their sled solo got to ride 2-up with a volunteer. I'd like to see that program revived.

[Classic]

The "give it a try" tour they ran for a few seasons seemed to be pretty successful in getting people interested in snowmobiling. I volunteered with the local event for a couple years and there were people ready to buy a sled on the spot after coming back from their ride.

I'm sure it wasn't a cheap undertaking to put the event on but all the manufacturers had sleds in the pool. Choko, I believe, supplied most of the gear. People just had to show up and the team outfitted them for the ride. The pre-ride training was pretty good and a few people that weren't confident enough to take their sled solo got to ride 2-up with a volunteer. I'd like to see that program revived.

I also helped every year. I would like to see some numbers of people who bought sleds. Many said they would but who knows. 

[UsedtoSkidoo]

no data to back up ideas? wtf?

[SuperG]

IMO- get rid of the freeloaders weekend! 

 

Not enough afterwords go out an actually get sleds and passes to justify it. Just another excuse for the freeloaders to be out on OUR groomed trails for free!

[manotickmike]

Don't wish to quote Nith, but that post made me think...

Just my $0.03 on new riders, from a relative "newb's" perspective.

The only way the new sledders are going to come out, is if it's made easier to try.

We all know it's addictive, but from an outsiders perspective, it's prohibitive. Entry is a pretty big hill, think sled, pass, insurance, trailer, gear, practical tow vehicle, etc. etc.

Manufacturers aren't doing it. You'd think they would put some effort into this, but I haven't seen it.

Yamaha had a "Power Tour" at my local club, but it really didn't do anything for a new rider. Didn't add up to much for me either, but that's another topic.

I think it's up to us as participants to get new people out. I don't have a spare set of gear, and an extra insured and trail passed sled kicking around, but I have taken a pal or 3 out for some 2up riding and handing over the sled for a bit, and encouraged my local "ditch banger" neighbors to get in on the fun.

[bbakernbay]

IMO- get rid of the freeloaders weekend! 

 

Not enough afterwords go out an actually get sleds and passes to justify it. Just another excuse for the freeloaders to be out on OUR groomed trails for free!

I totally agree, people are planning their trip around the Ontario and Quebec Free weekends.

Time to drop that free weekend for a year or two and this could actually encourage some of these people to actually buy a Trail Permit.

What business gives away their product on the busiest weekend of the year for those that actually bought a permit.

It is too late in the season to encourage many people to even buy a permit for the rest of the year.

[Nutter]

The "give it a try" tour they ran for a few seasons seemed to be pretty successful in getting people interested in snowmobiling. I volunteered with the local event for a couple years and there were people ready to buy a sled on the spot after coming back from their ride.

I'm sure it wasn't a cheap undertaking to put the event on but all the manufacturers had sleds in the pool. Choko, I believe, supplied most of the gear. People just had to show up and the team outfitted them for the ride. The pre-ride training was pretty good and a few people that weren't confident enough to take their sled solo got to ride 2-up with a volunteer. I'd like to see that program revived.

 

 

no data to back up ideas? wtf?

 

 

It was a great program but unfortunately the data is what made the manu's bail on the Give It A Try Tour, for them the numbers of people buying sleds afterwards wasn't enough to cover the cost of the program in their eyes. 

 

The season before last I met the couple that tried it in Haliburton, right after their ride some calls were made by reps present and they went to Harpers in Minden and bought 2 sleds and full gear LOL    I know that didn't happen each time, and don't remember how many it was but the program did get turn some none sledders into sledders. 

 

 

Don't wish to quote Nith, but that post made me think...

Just my $0.03 on new riders, from a relative "newb's" perspective.

The only way the new sledders are going to come out, is if it's made easier to try.

We all know it's addictive, but from an outsiders perspective, it's prohibitive. Entry is a pretty big hill, think sled, pass, insurance, trailer, gear, practical tow vehicle, etc. etc.

Manufacturers aren't doing it. You'd think they would put some effort into this, but I haven't seen it.

Yamaha had a "Power Tour" at my local club, but it really didn't do anything for a new rider. Didn't add up to much for me either, but that's another topic.

I think it's up to us as participants to get new people out. I don't have a spare set of gear, and an extra insured and trail passed sled kicking around, but I have taken a pal or 3 out for some 2up riding and handing over the sled for a bit, and encouraged my local "ditch banger" neighbors to get in on the fun

 

 

I agree Mike, something and someone has to ignite the spark to get them interested

 

 

 

A good clip on the subject from back in  2011

 

[Nutter]

IMO- get rid of the freeloaders weekend! 

 

Not enough afterwords go out an actually get sleds and passes to justify it. Just another excuse for the freeloaders to be out on OUR groomed trails for free!

 

 

I totally agree, people are planning their trip around the Ontario and Quebec Free weekends.

Time to drop that free weekend for a year or two and this could actually encourage some of these people to actually buy a Trail Permit.

What business gives away their product on the busiest weekend of the year for those that actually bought a permit.

It is too late in the season to encourage many people to even buy a permit for the rest of the year.

 

 

I have to disagree with you guys, I can't think of a better way to get people to remember how fun riding is and get permits back on sleds that haven't had one on them in years. 

[Viperules700]

I have to disagree with you guys, I can't think of a better way to get people to remember how fun riding is and get permits back on sleds that haven't had one on them in years.

I think it should stay, but charge a processing fee of some sort, say 40 for the weekend. This could be a huge cash cow, in mid season, if there is really 14,000 plus free permits going out, like data shows. It could be 2 groomers worth of revenue. What do we have to loose by charging a processing fee?

[dweese]

So just excuses. Nutter is a pretty busy fellow as well but still manages to do a lot for his club and the ofsc. Have you seen what the polar bear riders have done with a Facebook page. They even have signs on the trails asking to like their page.

No its not just excuses thanks.. so don't make assumptions some of us have some very serous things going on in there lives right now and volunteering for the local sled club just doesn't fit right now. I'm not even sure if sledding is even in the cards for me this year or ever again.

And yes I've seen what local clubs do with thier Facebook pages and it's great. But my point from the get go was, the OFSC should have a targeted marketing strategy using social media. Shouldn't be up to the local clubs to do all the works.

When I'm sitting across the street from a sled dealer and Facebook gives me a push ad for that brand of sled and the local shop, you think the OFSC would be smart enought to have an ad for them pushed as well.

As far as cost, the ads are free, you only pay when someone actually clicks and opens the ad. Then it's around 15 cents perclick.

That's marketing system wide and thats how you target non-users.

And where do you get that money from? Easy, dump the printed copys of Go Snowmobiling and Snowtrax they send us 4 or 5 times a year. Print media is diying very quickly anyways so may as well go with the flow.

If permits sales are migrating to an online only system. Then why not simply PDF email the mag publications to the membership. And use the money saved to try market towards the non-user.

[Nutter]

No its not just excuses thanks.. so don't make assumptions some of us have some very serous things going on in there lives right now and volunteering for the local sled club just doesn't fit right now. I'm not even sure if sledding is even in the cards for me this year or ever again.

And yes I've seen what local clubs do with thier Facebook pages and it's great. But my point from the get go was, the OFSC should have a targeted marketing strategy using social media. Shouldn't be up to the local clubs to do all the works.

When I'm sitting across the street from a sled dealer and Facebook gives me a push ad for that brand of sled and the local shop, you think the OFSC would be smart enought to have an ad for them pushed as well.

As far as cost, the ads are free, you only pay when someone actually clicks and opens the ad. Then it's around 15 cents perclick.

That's marketing system wide and thats how you target non-users.

And where do you get that money from? Easy, dump the printed copys of Go Snowmobiling and Snowtrax they send us 4 or 5 times a year. Print media is diying very quickly anyways so may as well go with the flow.

If permits sales are migrating to an online only system. Then why not simply PDF email the mag publications to the membership. And use the money saved to try market towards the non-user.

 

  I don't get your fixation with the OFSC having to be in the forefront in marketing and promoting sledding in Ontario. Most organizations would be pleased as punch to have Tourism Ontario and their partners doing it for you, and on their dime, along with clubs using free social media resources. As for target market strategy, you thinking the OFSC, Tourism Ontario and their partners don't know what their doing because you're not getting OFSC click ads in August on your Facebook feed is certainly laughable. 

 

Also local clubs like promoting themselves with content they choose, be it local, provincial or national or global. Their local areas really appreciate the local plugs they get, and in return they support the clubs and provide valuable services for riders. Like the posts the North Bay club has been doing about the new ownership of Camp Conewango on Talon Lake and the Polar Bear Riders with the new owners of the Abitibi Outpost. The big bonus here is that just about every post a club makes on Facebook also promotes the OFSC trail system as a whole.

 

There isn't a business in the world that would kill for that kind of marketing and promotional network support. But you seem to think the OFSC doing it all on it's own on it's own dime should be the way to go ... Paleeeese ! 

 

 

BTW .... the OFSC doesn't pay for the Go Snowmobiling Mag, Snowtrax gets the mailing list of people who check the box in exchange for the mag going out with Snowtrax. It was the same deal for the other mags back when they had it, although they didn't produce a whole separate mag, just a few dedicated pages. 

[reevester]

No its not just excuses thanks.. so don't make assumptions some of us have some very serous things going on in there lives right now and volunteering for the local sled club just doesn't fit right now. I'm not even sure if sledding is even in the cards for me this year or ever again.

And yes I've seen what local clubs do with thier Facebook pages and it's great. But my point from the get go was, the OFSC should have a targeted marketing strategy using social media. Shouldn't be up to the local clubs to do all the works.

When I'm sitting across the street from a sled dealer and Facebook gives me a push ad for that brand of sled and the local shop, you think the OFSC would be smart enought to have an ad for them pushed as well.

As far as cost, the ads are free, you only pay when someone actually clicks and opens the ad. Then it's around 15 cents perclick.

That's marketing system wide and thats how you target non-users.

And where do you get that money from? Easy, dump the printed copys of Go Snowmobiling and Snowtrax they send us 4 or 5 times a year. Print media is diying very quickly anyways so may as well go with the flow.

If permits sales are migrating to an online only system. Then why not simply PDF email the mag publications to the membership. And use the money saved to try market towards the non-user.

Sounds like you have it all figured out.

[soupkids]

"...the clubs are the heart of the system, without them there would be no district and in the end no sledding (D15 is an example of this, oh ya no D15 anymore).

The incorporated/unincorporated I think is meant more for the weaker northern clubs that simply do not have the people to do the job s that are set out by the laws of incorporation, may apply to some southern clubs as well.

 

I hope this helps answer your questions and then some greg.

 

Kevin."

 

 

Yikes! My morning coffee just came out my nose.....No D15?  See how much influence just one little number can have when you post. Get your facts straight, bud.

Sorry, posted late at night without my glasses.

[mczed38]

 

 

Too much pointing and clicking Nutter, Share this playlist. 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOk8GO8BDvH5VQkWtQPSWp5tUCvEcSbqU

[soupkids]

Some seem to be forgetting something.

The OFSC is the clubs, always has been, always will be.

The OFSC HO is the part that looks after going for the govt grants, tourism ontario, insurance, etc.

do you really think we would be sledding on groomed trails if each club had to get insurance for their trails, or went knocking on the govt door for a grant ???

some seem to think the each club is a franchise of the OFSC where a fee is paid to belong (kind of yes in a way but not)

The OFSC does not dictate to the clubs how they run their club.

one interesting fact about the OFSc and the permit thing with the province.

The arrangement is the ONLY one where we collect the $$ and keep all the $$, nothing goes to the provincial coffers.

[slomo]

  I don't get your fixation with the OFSC having to be in the forefront in marketing and promoting sledding in Ontario. Most organizations would be pleased as punch to have Tourism Ontario and their partners doing it for you, and on their dime, along with clubs using free social media resources. As for target market strategy, you thinking the OFSC, Tourism Ontario and their partners don't know what their doing because you're not getting OFSC click ads in August on your Facebook feed is certainly laughable. (BS)

 

 

Current main demographic of typical Ontario snowmobiler - white, 55 plus, balding, paunchy, poor health, (the guys are even worse) but able to afford sledding. Problem - getting older, less interested in the hastle, dying off. In order to survive, Ontario snowmobiling (represented by the OFSC according to mission statement) must attract new sledders. The non-traditional sledder needs to be targeted by a specific campaign. The other organizations i.e. Ontario Tourism are not doing this - specifically targeting a wanted group by identifying characteristics and gearing advertising in accordance...

 

This concept seems to be out of your cognitive reach - bombarding with unsubstantiated claims does not prove your point of view. As you have referred to it earlier, thinking the old gravy train gang is out to protect their own interests....while I'm on my DELL computer, keyboarding on a LOGITECH keyboard and watching the results on a SAMSUNG monitor...oops starting to look familiar to another gravy train character....

[soupkids]

The demographic we need to attract is the 40 somethings that now have some time on their hands.

Kids are done with hockey/ winter sports for the most part.

generally not out chasing a piece of ass on the weekends.

[SuperG]

I have to disagree with you guys, I can't think of a better way to get people to remember how fun riding is and get permits back on sleds that haven't had one on them in years. 

Well you have to open your eyes and look at the stats!!!!! its a huge waste of money and resources! On a busy weekend one that is one of the busiest is wasted on permit dollars by giving the freeloaders a free weekend and to literally say FU to trail patrol along with the rest of the PAYING permit buyers! We now have those multi-day permits that they can PURCHASE for that weekend so therefore we can actually generate some income and not loose it! We have ran that campaign for a few years now so they have had plenty of time to get use to it to see if they like it, now its just an excuse for them NOT to buy a full permit or even a multi-day permit! Wake up, its a waste! find a better way to entice new non sledders other than this and FB. 

[Spanky]

Well you have to open your eyes and look at the stats!!!!! 

 

Post up those stats so we can all see.

[SuperG]

Ask your elected OFSC bureaucrats for them! Or if you have stats proving otherwise that it works and we have way more sleds on the trail from new sledders coming from this program that HAVE bought permits, then please post it up! 

[Spanky]

You stated that the free weekend is a "huge waste of money and resources, just look at the stats".  You must have them to be able to come to that conclusion, post them up so we can see for ourselves.

[SuperG]

I have seen them before from OFSC and do not have access to them to post up hints contact your OFSC bureaucrats to see them if you wish. Also seeing first hand at least from my clubs perspective and talking to other neighboring clubs perspective while out on patrol, not enough or hardly any new non sledders from this program! Also get the same response from people, I just came out this weekend cause its FREE!  

[Spanky]

I'm not sure who my "OFSC bureaucrat" might be, but I will ask........

 

Not totally disagreeing with you, in this District we have a couple clubs beating the social media drum (Facebook) for folks to come far and wide to experience our trails last winter, it worked wonderfully which I'm sure was great for the local businesses, but it meant that the locals (who buy their permits) could not enjoy the trails at all due to their poor condition from the traffic.  Safety and rampant trespassing was also a major issue.  We had to trailer out of the area to sled last winter.

 

I don't think that lack of marketing is the issue, you aren't going to get Abdul and the fam to take up snowmobiling.  This might work with other groups in the south of Ontario, but I think that snowmobiling is, by and large, a rural activity.  Look at other sports that depend on volunteers, they are having many of the same issues.  It is also a generational issue, this generation has been raised with different values and expectations, right or wrong these values and expectations do not include much giving of their time and effort, other than behind a keyboard or smartphone.  This is not limited to the snowmobiling community.  If this is going to change for the better within the snowmobile community, it has to come from the local club (as an example, 25 years ago if someone felt that the local club had a poor track record of communication, they would volunteer to change it, nowadays that person would come on a web forum and complain).  I'm not sure how some can expect the OFSC to reach out into everyone's community to solve that problem.  The point made about targeting cottagers I believe was spot-on.  I also agree that letting others (Tourism) spend their money to market us makes the most sense.

 

As for MOTS, I've stayed out of the discussion, but I would ask that voting delegates please take into account other areas besides their own when voting.  Just because STP/D12 has the permit sales/funds to pay all groomer operator, this is definitely not the case everywhere.  Asking a volunteer groomer operator to drive hours away and groom longer is not going to result in better trails, as you will lose that operator.  I am in favour of living within our means, and I never agreed with a $180 trail permit, it only made the whining worse.  I believe the permit should be much higher.  Not saying there aren't savings and efficiencies to be had (too many Districts), but a permit price stuck in the 1990's (and the expectation created by lowering it a few years ago) is at the core of the problem.