dweese Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Again how many times do cops ask for these papers 20 + yrs of riding OFSC trails NEVER have had to provide that Why make excuse for the police You guys must have huge issues with police on trails down in S.Ont must drive people nuts Every-time I have been stopped I've been asked for it, around here that is about twice a year. Even more so, if you run E108 on the weekends in the Madoc - Tweed area. Its a Saturday afternoon radar trap where E108 crosses Hwy 41 all season long for the OPP. And I've had OFSC trail patrol ask for it once, so some of them don't know any better as well. I'm not making excuse, I just have better things to do with my time than stand on the trail side telling a cop he is wrong, or taking a day off work to go to court and fight a ticket, that yes I'd win because the cop is wrong. My time is worth a lot more than proving some half brain cop wrong. And yes, some places there are real issues with Cops.. The regional and city cops are the worse. They are very uneducated when it comes to sleds. Far warning, if your ever in Belleville with your trailer, make sure your 125% legal on everything. We have one city cop, who writes $200k+ a year in trailer tickets alone, biggest one, is no ownership. Most cops would give you a warning, or 48 hours to provide it, but they don't have too, and this guy will write the ticket.. $245 I believe is the fine, and you won't beat it, and our city cops show up for their court days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToSlow Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I tend to subscribe to a Don't Feed the Trolls outlook but I have to reply.... Presumably anyone 'not used to using a comp' would have big problems with starting the computer, connecting to the internet, finding and opening a browser, navigating to the site and using the keyboard or mouse with any accuracy. As for the site itself, I found the process to be straight forward and simple. I won't lose any sleep about the possibility of the trails being open before Dec 1st. (In my dreams!) I also doubt the validity of your permit delivery date information...It's a Sunday. so if i give my opinion im a troll....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToSlow Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I tend to subscribe to a Don't Feed the Trolls outlook but I have to reply.... lol... thanks for coming out. now move on., and we'll not call other members of the forum names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Every-time I have been stopped I've been asked for it, around here that is about twice a year. Even more so, if you run E108 on the weekends in the Madoc - Tweed area. Its a Saturday afternoon radar trap where E108 crosses Hwy 41 all season long for the OPP. And I've had OFSC trail patrol ask for it once, so some of them don't know any better as well. I'm not making excuse, I just have better things to do with my time than stand on the trail side telling a cop he is wrong, or taking a day off work to go to court and fight a ticket, that yes I'd win because the cop is wrong. My time is worth a lot more than proving some half brain cop wrong. And yes, some places there are real issues with Cops.. The regional and city cops are the worse. They are very uneducated when it comes to sleds. Far warning, if your ever in Belleville with your trailer, make sure your 125% legal on everything. We have one city cop, who writes $200k+ a year in trailer tickets alone, biggest one, is no ownership. Most cops would give you a warning, or 48 hours to provide it, but they don't have too, and this guy will write the ticket.. $245 I believe is the fine, and you won't beat it, and our city cops show up for their court days. You need to contact the polie where these cops are ispatched out of, and tell them they are attempting to enforce a non existant law, Trail patrol asking for anything in regards to paperwork need to be told to frig off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 You need to contact the polie where these cops are ispatched out of, and tell them they are attempting to enforce a non existant law, Trail patrol asking for anything in regards to paperwork need to be told to frig off. Is the paper work heavy? Do you think it will slow your sled down by carrying it. God get over it folks. Put it in your bag in the fall and then its there for those that don't know any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 thinking about paperwork.... if you take it in the sled with you riding, it gets wet, lost, unlegible, and you wreck the sled and or buy a new sled and need a replacement transfer... it gonna happen without the paperwork. i understand the "I dont want the hassle with the police" but, you also cant let them run rough shod all over your rights, and non existant laws. if they say they are going to write you a ticket for no permit paperwork, ask them to site the statue in which that ticket will be based on. then politely explain, that there is no law stating "YOU MUST CARRY THE PERMIT PAPERWORK WITH YOU AT ALL TIMES". the permits say on them, they need to be displayed in a visable manor on the hood/cowl area near the center headlamp areas ONLY! NO WHERE DOES IT MENTION CARRYING THE PAPERWORK. if you want to carry something for the police... carry the permit backer paper that states that. think of all the people buying new sleds that havent arrived, and have no vin. are they supposed to wait and buy the permit at full price in season when they have a vin???? no would be the answer. they can have themselves or the purchasing club update the vin when they have it. Food for thought. Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 thinking about paperwork.... if you take it in the sled with you riding, it gets wet, lost, unlegible, and you wreck the sled and or buy a new sled and need a replacement transfer... it gonna happen without the paperwork. i understand the "I dont want the hassle with the police" but, you also cant let them run rough shod all over your rights, and non existant laws. if they say they are going to write you a ticket for no permit paperwork, ask them to site the statue in which that ticket will be based on. then politely explain, that there is no law stating "YOU MUST CARRY THE PERMIT PAPERWORK WITH YOU AT ALL TIMES". the permits say on them, they need to be displayed in a visable manor on the hood/cowl area near the center headlamp areas ONLY! NO WHERE DOES IT MENTION CARRYING THE PAPERWORK. if you want to carry something for the police... carry the permit backer paper that states that. think of all the people buying new sleds that havent arrived, and have no vin. are they supposed to wait and buy the permit at full price in season when they have a vin???? no would be the answer. they can have themselves or the purchasing club update the vin when they have it. Food for thought. Ski I've been riding sleds for a long time and carrying the required paperwork (ownership & insurance) + the permit paperwork (since we have been told to) in the sled for about 30 years. I put a photocopy of the ownership, an original pink insurance slip and a copy of the permit paperwork in a plastic insurance slip folder with the opening taped closed. I have had someone total one of my sleds and yet I have never lost the paperwork or had it turn illegible. Sometimes I've forgotten what nook I put it in but it was always on the sled somewhere. I agree that trail patrol should not be asking for paperwork. The trail patrol instructors make a point of stating that in the first class and refreshers that every trail patroller takes. However, if having all this paperwork available when needed means I will be riding away rather than sitting on the side of the trail being hassled, I am go'in to keep do'in what I've been do'in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToSlow Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 well folks, after we beat this permit thread to death, then in a few weeks there will be all new thread of how rough the trails are, or how some sob almost hit me on a corner. but bottom line is we are all hardcore sledders and we will all buy permits. and we will be happy as a pig in crap when the first trail opens, and even some sled nuts will trailer for hrs to get to that trail just to get a fix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 well folks, after we beat this permit thread to death, then in a few weeks there will be all new thread of how rough the trails are, or how some sob almost hit me on a corner but bottom line is we are all hardcore sledders and we will all buy permits. and we will be happy as a pig in crap when the first trail opens, and even some sled nuts will trailer for hrs to get to that trail just to get a fix Lol! Yeah superburger employee's will be on here complaining about their lot being two full, and having no room to plow all of the fresh snow! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave K Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Again, if you are at a trail side stop, and if a cop thinks you need to show your green form and tell him he is wrong, see where that gets you. It's a simple peice of paper, why is everyone so bull headed about things, yes you don't need it, but just carry and save yourself any posable headaches or delays. X2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 well folks, after we beat this permit thread to death, then in a few weeks there will be all new thread of how rough the trails are, or how some sob almost hit me on a corner. but bottom line is we are all hardcore sledders and we will all buy permits. and we will be happy as a pig in crap when the first trail opens, and even some sled nuts will trailer for hrs to get to that trail just to get a fix one of the most accurate statements you have ever made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teener Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Is the paper work heavy? Do you think it will slow your sled down by carrying it. God get over it folks. Put it in your bag in the fall and then its there for those that don't know any different. Exactly, never argue with a bureaucrat and/or cop, it's not worth your breath. And by the way, if your trail permit falls off or is stolen (yes, this happened to me a few years ago), you need your permit # (coincidentally on the paper work...) to file a police report in order to obtain a replacement at the discounted price. The last thing you need is to be hassled on a multi-day trip because your permit sticker is missing and you don't have a police report # to back you up or you had to pay full-price for a replacement. Really, I don't understand what all the angst is about....just because the law doesn't require you to carry a piece of paper....spare belt...oil...emergency supplies, doesn't mean it's not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Exactly, never argue with a bureaucrat and/or cop, it's not worth your breath. And by the way, if your trail permit falls off or is stolen (yes, this happened to me a few years ago), you need your permit # (coincidentally on the paper work...) to file a police report in order to obtain a replacement at the discounted price. The last thing you need is to be hassled on a multi-day trip because your permit sticker is missing and you don't have a police report # to back you up or you had to pay full-price for a replacement. Really, I don't understand what all the angst is about....just because the law doesn't require you to carry a piece of paper....spare belt...oil...emergency supplies, doesn't mean it's not a good idea. I did not read one post where anyone said it was a bad idea to carry it, just posts that pointed out legaly you do not, and cops or TP have no business to demand to see it. Nobody like stupid police, an everyone hates police that are so stupid they make up their own laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 If you carry the green copy and loose it you have a yellow copy that shows you bought a pass. So loosing or wrecking your green copy does not matter. Except for the following! Now what I don't like is the no green copy your pass is invalid thought process or If a guy buys a permit before he buys his sled and does not have the sled serial number on the permit but has the permit attached to his sled then leave him alone or he put his pass on his wifes sled and visa versa. But the macho trail patrol and police seem to want to flex thier muscles at this point and claim the permit to be nul and void. This is wrong on so many levels and not legal in others. I can understand the trail pass in the pocket thought process but this is not what is and has happened. In the case of a person who carries a pass in their pocket then charge them for failing to display. 130 bucks and make them put the pass on the sled or remove from the trail but leave the guys alone who bought and are displaying a pass. Same goes for looking for stolen passes. The OFSC know what passes are stolen police will have a list they can read the number on the pass and if the guy has a green copy or does not it can be cross referenced with the list. Leave the guy alone or change the law! I carry my green copy but up here we are so happy to see the pass we never ask for the green copy, ever! The police never ask for it as well I asked a local OPP and he said no they do not ask! They do ask for license and registration however and you have to show it, thats the law! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 You know what I could care less if someone bought a 180 dollar pass on Dec 3rd before the paperwork went to the OFSC! I know clubs have done it and venders! I'm just so happy they bought one a day or 5 late! A lot of worry over nothing! I mean if its such a big issue then drop the clubs or vender sale completly and go online only! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 think of all the people buying new sleds that havent arrived, and have no vin. are they supposed to wait and buy the permit at full price in season when they have a vin???? no would be the answer. they can have themselves or the purchasing club update the vin when they have it. Food for thought. Ski Yep I agree! I'm just happy they bought one and have it on display! Kind of warms my heart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 You know what I could care less if someone bought a 180 dollar pass on Dec 3rd before the paperwork went to the OFSC! I know clubs have done it and venders! I'm just so happy they bought one a day or 5 late! A lot of worry over nothing! I mean if its such a big issue then drop the clubs or vender sale completly and go online only! Lets just hope that happens in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 You know what I could care less if someone bought a 180 dollar pass on Dec 3rd before the paperwork went to the OFSC! I know clubs have done it and venders! I'm just so happy they bought one a day or 5 late! A lot of worry over nothing! I mean if its such a big issue then drop the clubs or vender sale completly and go online only! Agree, the idea is to buy before the snow flies and get money to the clubs early, so if a guy rolls in on the 3rd, a vendor back dates and the club hs yet to collect their erly sales revenues, then wgas, just one more permit sold and the money is gtting to the lub the same time as the guy that actually came in on dec.1. it truly is not a big deal, and in reality is not costing frig all to the ystem, not making ay difference nd if clubs want to stop it they can show up and collect on the 2nd and then know there can be no more discounted permits sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Agree, the idea is to buy before the snow flies and get money to the clubs early, so if a guy rolls in on the 3rd, a vendor back dates and the club hs yet to collect their erly sales revenues, then wgas, just one more permit sold and the money is gtting to the lub the same time as the guy that actually came in on dec.1. it truly is not a big deal, and in reality is not costing frig all to the ystem, not making ay difference nd if clubs want to stop it they can show up and collect on the 2nd and then know there can be no more discounted permits sold. I know a few places that have done that.. Since it's a cash deal for permits, sometimes pay cheques don't aways line up. So maybe you don't have the cash until the 2nd or 3rd... I've got no problem if they back date things a few days. It sells a permit and keeps one more person on the trails. Sometimes the spirt of the rules needs to override the letter of the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I wonder if they're selling permits today (Nov. 1st) at the Novi, Michigan show. Probably not, since it's "online only" until midnight, but I wonder. Do you really turn away someone at a Michigan show if you've gone through the expense of sending resources (booth, staff) to that show and they're a non-resident willing to pay? These are some crazy hard lines in the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I wonder if they're selling permits today (Nov. 1st) at the Novi, Michigan show. Probably not, since it's "online only" until midnight, but I wonder. Do you really turn away someone at a Michigan show if you've gone through the expense of sending resources (booth, staff) to that show and they're a non-resident willing to pay? These are some crazy hard lines in the sand. I think the problem is they are not set up to sell permits other then online (no provisions other then online where made). I think it is an oversight that should be looked at but it won't happen this year for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 If you carry the green copy and loose it you have a yellow copy that shows you bought a pass. So loosing or wrecking your green copy does not matter. Except for the following! Now what I don't like is the no green copy your pass is invalid thought process or If a guy buys a permit before he buys his sled and does not have the sled serial number on the permit but has the permit attached to his sled then leave him alone or he put his pass on his wifes sled and visa versa. But the macho trail patrol and police seem to want to flex thier muscles at this point and claim the permit to be nul and void. This is wrong on so many levels and not legal in others. I can understand the trail pass in the pocket thought process but this is not what is and has happened. In the case of a person who carries a pass in their pocket then charge them for failing to display. 130 bucks and make them put the pass on the sled or remove from the trail but leave the guys alone who bought and are displaying a pass. Same goes for looking for stolen passes. The OFSC know what passes are stolen police will have a list they can read the number on the pass and if the guy has a green copy or does not it can be cross referenced with the list. Leave the guy alone or change the law! I carry my green copy but up here we are so happy to see the pass we never ask for the green copy, ever! The police never ask for it as well I asked a local OPP and he said no they do not ask! They do ask for license and registration however and you have to show it, thats the law! There is NO longer a green copy So this all but a moot point now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogirl69 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I wonder if they're selling permits today (Nov. 1st) at the Novi, Michigan show. Probably not, since it's "online only" until midnight, but I wonder. Do you really turn away someone at a Michigan show if you've gone through the expense of sending resources (booth, staff) to that show and they're a non-resident willing to pay? These are some crazy hard lines in the sand. Yes permits were being sold online only at the Novi show today just like the show last week. Tomorrow and Sunday $210 permits will be available. Staff, booth and expenses are paid for by Ontario Tourism not with permit $$$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marximuus Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 well folks, after we beat this permit thread to death, then in a few weeks there will be all new thread of how rough the trails are, or how some sob almost hit me on a corner. but bottom line is we are all hardcore sledders and we will all buy permits. and we will be happy as a pig in crap when the first trail opens, and even some sled nuts will trailer for hrs to get to that trail just to get a fix Or the thread that may pop up saying I got my permit on November 20th etc.... a lot of hype over a simple disclaimer that permit may not be delivered until a certain date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 There is NO longer a green copy So this all but a moot point now Saw that in the other thread now that people are getting their passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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