UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Why should it be a public event, were trying to get a years worth of business done, not shake hands and kiss babys and listen to frivolous complaints from the ill informed ? Each club recieves a registration package and votes on who ther deligates and attendies are, for those who have a vested interest and are interested in attending they will know the what where when and why through their local club almost a year in advance. Hey Nutter, Is this the kind of new out of the box anti old boys club thinking you were talking about? Im pretty sure your comment to WB forgot about this little gem you posted earlier. Which do you think will keep people away more, comments about an old boys club or your affirmation of the fact? Newbies are incouraged to join clubs and learn a little about what it takes to put sleds on snow, IMO having someone at AGM that doesn't even have enough communication with a local club IMO is a waste of their and and everyone elses time. But as I said in a post on the first page, no one is refused entry to AGM. I appreciate your opinion and you may be right. I just think its not wise with a non-profit to limit involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 I can predict the outcome of a request to change the dates... real simple... NO. Why? Because the dates obviously work for those that are there. For those that the dates don't work for, they are not there so it becomes really tough for them to vote for a change but even if they were there they can't vote since they are not the annointed delegates from their club. Ideally everyone who cares enough to be there should be able to vote and have their opinions count rather than that of just a representative from your club. Let's have a true democratic process. Legally, every stakeholder has a vote. Im sorry but thats law. On the registration form you are asked to indicate if you are a voting delegate YES or NO and your CLUB/ASSOCIATION. I asked about what I can and can't do. I was told that I could sit with the guys from the club at the AGM on Saturday but without registering and receiving a name badge that was it. I was told clearly that each club has only two designated voters which I think is wrong in principal however I can see where location could stack the deck for a local club. With the meeting being in Collingwood they could easily have a very significant representation of people from clubs in the surrounding area based on proximity and accessability. If everyone in attendance had a vote that would definitely give them a weighted advantage for self interest. Damned if you do damned if you don't but a true deomcracy is better. The other option is that the club representatives can actually carry proxy votes where others have assigned their votes in writing. Then the club representatives could rather than have one vote carry 30 or 40 votes. Closer to a true democracy. Since your comming, maybe you could suggest in a motion that the local club voices being carried by two voting deligates from each club is not enough, and that you would volunteer to count and keep track of the 462 deligates from 231 clubs provionce wide whom you fee should carry more then one card ? As for proximity and attendance, under provincial and federal corp act any club is welcome to send their two club votes via proxy by anyone they wish. Which for the record is what my motion last year was trying to help curb, it's one thing to send your voice, but to not be there to hear the voice of other clubs and amendments made to original motions by other clubs, IMO is just as bad as not being there at all. And yes this does allow for the stacking of votes, but it's the memebrship it's self that does this to themselves by not sending representation ofr their club and allowing their vote to rest in the hands of others via proxy. But again it's fed and provincial corp acts that dictate this practice. Which again IMO goes back to the the same principal as a permit buyer complaining to a club volunteer there was sticks on the trail, but riding around them rather then picking them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Since your comming, maybe you could suggest in a motion that the local club voices being carried by two voting deligates from each club is not enough, and that you would volunteer to count and keep track of the 462 deligates from 231 clubs provionce wide whom you fee should carry more then one card ? Great Idea Nutter, I am glad you have embraced this. As for the numbers, this can easily be tracked by simple computer programs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Why should it be a public event, were trying to get a years worth of business done, not shake hands and kiss babys and listen to frivolous complaints from the ill informed ? Each club recieves a registration package and votes on who ther deligates and attendies are, for those who have a vested interest and are interested in attending they will know the what where when and why through their local club almost a year in advance. Hey Nutter, Is this the kind of new out of the box anti old boys club thinking you were talking about? Im pretty sure your comment to WB forgot about this little gem you posted earlier. Which do you think will keep people away more, comments about an old boys club or your affirmation of the fact? Newbies are incouraged to join clubs and learn a little about what it takes to put sleds on snow, IMO having someone at AGM that doesn't even have enough communication with a local club IMO is a waste of their and and everyone elses time. But as I said in a post on the first page, no one is refused entry to AGM. I appreciate your opinion and you may be right. I just think its not wise with a non-profit to limit involvement. There is no limit to involvement, start with a club meeting and carry one from there, if one wishes to go to AGM without some knowledge about what it takes to put sleds on snow have at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Since your comming, maybe you could suggest in a motion that the local club voices being carried by two voting deligates from each club is not enough, and that you would volunteer to count and keep track of the 462 deligates from 231 clubs provionce wide whom you fee should carry more then one card ? Great Idea Nutter, I am glad you have embraced this. As for the numbers, this can easily be tracked by simple computer programs! Computer programs ?? Motion or amendment #1, motion is presented, floors discussion on motion, (amendments to motion are are possible and more common then not) ... all in favor of amendment to original motion hold your cards up, all against hold your cards up. All in favor of original motion or motion with the amendment made ...... all against !!!! How could a computer program possibly count these votes through out the day ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Since your comming, maybe you could suggest in a motion that the local club voices being carried by two voting deligates from each club is not enough, and that you would volunteer to count and keep track of the 462 deligates from 231 clubs provionce wide whom you fee should carry more then one card ? Great Idea Nutter, I am glad you have embraced this. As for the numbers, this can easily be tracked by simple computer programs! Computer programs ?? Motion or amendment #1, motion is presented, floors discussion on motion, (amendments to motion are are possible and more common then not) ... all in favor of amendment to original motion hold your cards up, all against hold your cards up. All in favor of original motion or motion with the amendment made ...... all against !!!! How could a computer program possibly count these votes through out the day ??? I deleted my post because this is a waste of my time. Normally I would explain why, but thats a waste as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 I can predict the outcome of a request to change the dates... real simple... NO. Why? Because the dates obviously work for those that are there. For those that the dates don't work for, they are not there so it becomes really tough for them to vote for a change but even if they were there they can't vote since they are not the annointed delegates from their club. Ideally everyone who cares enough to be there should be able to vote and have their opinions count rather than that of just a representative from your club. Let's have a true democratic process. Legally, every stakeholder has a vote. Im sorry but thats law. On the registration form you are asked to indicate if you are a voting delegate YES or NO and your CLUB/ASSOCIATION. I asked about what I can and can't do. I was told that I could sit with the guys from the club at the AGM on Saturday but without registering and receiving a name badge that was it. I was told clearly that each club has only two designated voters which I think is wrong in principal however I can see where location could stack the deck for a local club. With the meeting being in Collingwood they could easily have a very significant representation of people from clubs in the surrounding area based on proximity and accessability. If everyone in attendance had a vote that would definitely give them a weighted advantage for self interest. Damned if you do damned if you don't but a true deomcracy is better. The other option is that the club representatives can actually carry proxy votes where others have assigned their votes in writing. Then the club representatives could rather than have one vote carry 30 or 40 votes. Closer to a true democracy. I do believe I mentioned that any decisions made on behalf of the club would be shared and decided upon by the people from the club sitting at the table , we will be having a club meeting prior to agm to go over the AGM motions , if there is any amendmants on the floor the day of business we as a group will make the best decision we can make at that time. We were appointed as deligates by the club and not annointed by the way ! Glad your coming O2sled and willing to learn with a open mind ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 How could a computer program possibly count these votes through out the day ??? Are you honestly suggesting that the voting process at the AGM cannot be converted into a mathematical algorithm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 How could a computer program possibly count these votes through out the day ??? Are you honestly suggesting that the voting process at the AGM cannot be converted into a mathematical algorithm? Are you shocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Are you shocked? Shocked? No. I am certain it is a joke, but I must admit the humour went over my head. Maybe it is an inside joke from last year's AGM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Are you shocked? Shocked? No. I am certain it is a joke, but I must admit the humour went over my head. Maybe it is an inside joke from last year's AGM? No joke , the thought has been brought up in the past , but that's just it . A thought. Got an ideas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Got an ideas ? I am not clear on which part of the process is impossible for a computer to process, though if someone wants to explain the specific problem as it relates to not being able to be processed by a computer with more detail I would love to examine it for possible solutions. Honestly, as Nutter described it, it sounds like a project you would give a high school student as a basic learning exercise. That is why I assumed he was joking about it being computationally impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Okay... so now I am much more educated than I was a couple of days ago. I called the OFSC in Barrie yesterday. The AGM starts on a Thursday and ends on a Saturday. Bottom line if you want to attend in any way shape or form you need to be either retired or extremely interested in being there. Why? If you're not retired it means taking a couple of vacation days from work. Registration is $280.00. You can attend without registration which also means without a name badge. However without registering and paying the $280.00 you cannot participate in any of the break out sessions and need to get your meals elsewhere. I have to work Thursday and Friday and the last session is over at 4:30. I can get there around 3:00 Friday and attend Saturday however they don't offer a registration just for the one day and as they said themselves it doesn't make economic sense to pay $280.00 for one day. I hate to say it but this does smell just a little bit like an old boys club. If they truly want to make this accessable why not Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Isn't the idea to encourage people to participate? I would also like to suggest that they have the option of allowing people to register for a day or days that they can attend. The agenda is also not available in advance. You find out the agenda after the fact when they send you your registration package. In contrast every single business conference I have ever attended publishes the full agenda in advance so that you can determine the true value of your attendance weighted against your ability to attend. I have on occasion chosen to attend two of three days of a conference based on the agenda knowing when I would get value for my time. At this time I expect I will be there Saturday early Saturday and get what I can from the experience with the limited insight I am allowed. It used to be Friday Saturday Sunday . We could open discussion on this again as you make a very valid point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 WHat happened? Did the ofsc whisk everyone away in the middle of the night? Did some people here get a knock on there door accompanied by the sound of jack boots? Should we call this " Forumknacht?" Shhhh herr nutter is listening Slow down on the OC band wagon Koolaid Bill, it could back to haunt you when recruting new volunteers, that is unless you just don't want any new volunteers in your club. I do not march to anyone's drums. anyone who knows me knows this. All is not perfect at the OFSC that is why I attend the AGM. Both to listen and to speak. It is possible for good ideas to come from outside of our fold. Listening is free. Indeed new volenteers can be retained by listening to them and making them part of the democracy. But Bill by supporting comments that it is not a democracy and just an "old boys club" where one doesn't have his say, don't you feel it could keep one from volunteering ? What are you smoking? How does listening to volunteers for new ideas promote an old boys club. Indeed after over 25 years of volunteering I would be an "old boy" but I value each and every person that makes our great sport happen. I always welcome new volunteers and indeed the right to free speech is precious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvMyViper Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 How could a computer program possibly count these votes through out the day ??? Are you honestly suggesting that the voting process at the AGM cannot be converted into a mathematical algorithm? LOL.. That made me laugh out loud....... Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Slow down on the OC band wagon Koolaid Bill, it could back to haunt you when recruting new volunteers, that is unless you just don't want any new volunteers in your club. I do not march to anyone's drums. anyone who knows me knows this. All is not perfect at the OFSC that is why I attend the AGM. Both to listen and to speak. It is possible for good ideas to come from outside of our fold. Listening is free. Indeed new volenteers can be retained by listening to them and making them part of the democracy. But Bill by supporting comments that it is not a democracy and just an "old boys club" where one doesn't have his say, don't you feel it could keep one from volunteering ? What are you smoking? How does listening to volunteers for new ideas promote an old boys club. Indeed after over 25 years of volunteering I would be an "old boy" but I value each and every person that makes our great sport happen. I always welcome new volunteers and indeed the right to free speech is precious. Nothing is more welcoming than supporting the words of it's an "old boys club" and the permit buyer does not have a say. It even makes me giddy and want to volunteer ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Nothing is more welcoming than supporting the words of it's an "old boys club" and the permit buyer does not have a say. It even makes me giddy and want to volunteer ....... Probably as equally welcoming as suggesting that new members are akin to baby kissing and having frivolous idea's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Nothing is more welcoming than supporting the words of it's an "old boys club" and the permit buyer does not have a say. It even makes me giddy and want to volunteer ....... Probably as equally welcoming as suggesting that new members are akin to baby kissing and having frivolous idea's! Miscreants, Mischief Makers and Sandal Wearing Fornicators of Hard Shelled Reptiles ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 But Bill by supporting comments that it is not a democracy and just an "old boys club" where one doesn't have his say, don't you feel it could keep one from volunteering ? What are you smoking? How does listening to volunteers for new ideas promote an old boys club. Indeed after over 25 years of volunteering I would be an "old boy" but I value each and every person that makes our great sport happen. I always welcome new volunteers and indeed the right to free speech is precious. Your approach is refreshing. It wasn't that long ago when I first approached my local club to volunteer and was told they had all the help they needed. They did call me almost a year later looking for a bartender at a dinner held in conjunction with the Chamber of Commerce. Talk about discouraging. Since then some of those old boy barriers have been coming down and I am happy to say I now enjoy being involved with the club and more importantly the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Here you go folks. Club House1.PDF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reved Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Here you go folks. :ItWasUST!: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Here you go folks. And here you have the reason the majority of the membership don't feel it's good idea to be more open with documentation...... Why don't you explain to everyone exactly what document that's from, and what the two pass words are exactly for UTS ? Or do you expect some volunteer from a club to come on here and explain it as many did on Freedom Sledder, so you can twist what they say and try and piss them off with your BS "I know best I'm UTS ? This used to be a good site for club and volunteer info ... see ya's ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Or do you expect some volunteer from a club to come on here and explain it as many did on Freedom Sledder Heck, I'll volunteer to explain it. I really don't see what the big deal is. UTS does raise valid points, and while you may disagree with his point of view, I fail to see why anyone would become "pissed off" about a differing point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Here you go folks. And here you have the reason the majority of the membership don't feel it's good idea to be more open with documentation...... Why don't you explain to everyone exactly what document that's from, and what the two pass words are exactly for UTS ? Or do you expect some volunteer from a club to come on here and explain it as many did on Freedom Sledder, so you can twist what they say and try and piss them off with your BS "I know best I'm UTS ? This used to be a good site for club and volunteer info ... see ya's ...... Yes Nutter is right. The letter from the ofsc refers to a password system to info that honestly is not much use to most sledders. Probably means nothing in the end of things. However, what it does prove is that they do wish to keep info from all of you club members. Now ask yourselves, if they dont want seemingly innocuous info to get into your hands, what else do they wish to kep secret and why? I posted this to show that I was right and to get people to get involved and help out this organisation..... Why on earth would yo ube mad Nutter? Why so angry? Usually anger is a defense mechanism. I wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Here you go folks. And here you have the reason the majority of the membership don't feel it's good idea to be more open with documentation...... Why don't you explain to everyone exactly what document that's from, and what the two pass words are exactly for UTS ? Or do you expect some volunteer from a club to come on here and explain it as many did on Freedom Sledder, so you can twist what they say and try and piss them off with your BS "I know best I'm UTS ? This used to be a good site for club and volunteer info ... see ya's ...... Yes Nutter is right. The letter from the ofsc refers to a password system to info that honestly is not much use to most sledders. Probably means nothing in the end of things. However, what it does prove is that they do wish to keep info from all of you club members. Now ask yourselves, if they dont want seemingly innocuous info to get into your hands, what else do they wish to kep secret and why? I posted this to show that I was right and to get people to get involved and help out this organisation..... Why on earth would yo ube mad Nutter? Why so angry? Usually anger is a defense mechanism. I wonder why? So permit buyers personal info (address, phone number, reg number ...ect) is "seemingly innocuous info" ? I'm just angry you choose to post that without knowing the facts and just spewing what you wish on a public forum. Again what exactly is that doc you posted ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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