UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Your defending these actions and I am presenting a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Another one I have just recently heard about and been sledding for 6 years. Main Trail Mag. So much for trasnparency. Whu do I need an ID and password to find this? Why can't it just be available on the OFSC website if things are truly transparent? Why does it need to be hidden or jump through hoops to get it? Main trail is the OFSC news publication, copies are sent out to every club, district and association for distribution or review by the membership. If you are not recieving it I suggest you ask your club exec why this is. The club house section of the OFSC website is not for the general public, each club within the OFSC has a user ID and pass word. I find it hard to beleive you do not know about or have access to either of these when Yukon is your clubs VIA coordinator. So the OFSC can make broad sweeping descisions about supporting newly enacted drinking and driving laws but they cant let 02sled or others like him have an online copy of a trail mag which gives you information your entitled too? That my friend is screwed up! Who say they can't ? He just needs to ask Yukon for his clubs user ID and password, or get a copy off of who ever recieves the club mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Your defending these actions and I am presenting a different opinion. Who's defending ? I'm telling you why things are they way they are whether I agree with them of not ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Who say they can't ? He just needs to ask Yukon for his clubs user ID and password, or get a copy off of who ever recieves the club mail. Why is it done that way? I know your not a corporate guy Nutter and neither am I but the more speedbumps you put in the way while not using technology hurts you. It should readily available when you insert your permit ID # into a central datatbase online allowing you access to the HIDDEN side of the OFSC. Its easy and the way you guys are doing it is backwards and it smacks of elitism and old boys clubs. I doubt it is that way but some of your comments on here have me thinking otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Your defending these actions and I am presenting a different opinion. Who's defending ? I'm telling you why things are they way they are whether I agree with them of not ..... Now your just being passive aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Who say they can't ? He just needs to ask Yukon for his clubs user ID and password, or get a copy off of who ever recieves the club mail. So here are a couple of things to change that will address more than one issue. In this day and age there is little need for a club Wizard who holds the secret password to the Kingdom of Snow. Nor is there a need for a Club Mail Room with the Mail Room Clerk and teletype machine. Yukon and whoever is the Mail Room Guy are volunteers. The more that gets taken off their plates, the more time they have for other volunteer work and/or lessens the volunteer 'burn-out'. The OFSC can handle both those jobs in a matter of a few keystrokes. Even automate it so no one at the OFSC has to do any keystroking. The added benefit, therefore, is people like O2Sled (because he's the example in the last post) can, at their leisure, and when so inclined, get the information themselves 24/7 in a manner convenient to them and not have to go cap-in-hand to figure out who in the club can get him the information and on a Tuesday night in a location 2.5 hours from his home. Less work for the club volunteers. Easier access to information for the Permit Holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Another one I have just recently heard about and been sledding for 6 years. Main Trail Mag. So much for trasnparency. Whu do I need an ID and password to find this? Why can't it just be available on the OFSC website if things are truly transparent? Why does it need to be hidden or jump through hoops to get it? Main trail is the OFSC news publication, copies are sent out to every club, district and association for distribution or review by the membership. If you are not recieving it I suggest you ask your club exec why this is. The club house section of the OFSC website is not for the general public, each club within the OFSC has a user ID and pass word. I find it hard to beleive you do not know about or have access to either of these when Yukon is your clubs VIA coordinator. So the OFSC can make broad sweeping descisions about supporting newly enacted drinking and driving laws but they cant let 02sled or others like him have an online copy of a trail mag which gives you information your entitled too? That my friend is screwed up! Who say they can't ? He just needs to ask Yukon for his clubs user ID and password, or get a copy off of who ever recieves the club mail. Why should I have to ask a gate keeper for permission. As stated by others... enter my permit number and name and I should have access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Who say they can't ? He just needs to ask Yukon for his clubs user ID and password, or get a copy off of who ever recieves the club mail. So here are a couple of things to change that will address more than one issue. In this day and age there is little need for a club Wizard who holds the secret password to the Kingdom of Snow. Nor is there a need for a Club Mail Room with the Mail Room Clerk and teletype machine. Yukon and whoever is the Mail Room Guy are volunteers. The more that gets taken off their plates, the more time they have for other volunteer work and/or lessens the volunteer 'burn-out'. The OFSC can handle both those jobs in a matter of a few keystrokes. Even automate it so no one at the OFSC has to do any keystroking. The added benefit, therefore, is people like O2Sled (because he's the example in the last post) can, at their leisure, and when so inclined, get the information themselves 24/7 in a manner convenient to them and not have to go cap-in-hand to figure out who in the club can get him the information and on a Tuesday night in a location 2.5 hours from his home. Less work for the club volunteers. Easier access to information for the Permit Holder. You should probably write that up as a proposal and have five witnesses sign and then wait til next year to present that at the agm..........that is if you can find out the date in time from your club member who handles such things! The above was a joke. The sad part is is that it is based on truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Who say they can't ? He just needs to ask Yukon for his clubs user ID and password, or get a copy off of who ever recieves the club mail. Why is it done that way? I know your not a corporate guy Nutter and neither am I but the more speedbumps you put in the way while not using technology hurts you. It should readily available when you insert your permit ID # into a central datatbase online allowing you access to the HIDDEN side of the OFSC. Its easy and the way you guys are doing it is backwards and it smacks of elitism and old boys clubs. I doubt it is that way but some of your comments on here have me thinking otherwise. Why is it done that way, as I said the OFSC can only release what they legally can, and can legally only answer to stake holders of the OFSC ... the clubs, the stake holders of the clubs are the permit buyer to whom the club answers to. Can the OFSC stake holders (the clubs) change that yes but it has to be done by majority vote of all the clubs, which is the voice of the permit buyer. Who say they can't ? He just needs to ask Yukon for his clubs user ID and password, or get a copy off of who ever recieves the club mail. So here are a couple of things to change that will address more than one issue. In this day and age there is little need for a club Wizard who holds the secret password to the Kingdom of Snow. Nor is there a need for a Club Mail Room with the Mail Room Clerk and teletype machine. Yukon and whoever is the Mail Room Guy are volunteers. The more that gets taken off their plates, the more time they have for other volunteer work and/or lessens the volunteer 'burn-out'. The OFSC can handle both those jobs in a matter of a few keystrokes. Even automate it so no one at the OFSC has to do any keystroking. The added benefit, therefore, is people like O2Sled (because he's the example in the last post) can, at their leisure, and when so inclined, get the information themselves 24/7 in a manner convenient to them and not have to go cap-in-hand to figure out who in the club can get him the information and on a Tuesday night in a location 2.5 hours from his home. Less work for the club volunteers. Easier access to information for the Permit Holder. Here's one for you, three years ago the OFSC board of Govs decided we should do a mail out to every permit buyer, which included permit renewal form, copy of main trail and bunch of other stuff. The the membership tore it apart and veto'd it's existance (obviously not realizing the piggy back mail out revenue potential from advertisers), as they felt the money spent for this was better spent on the snow, and that they the clubs would loose contact with their permit buyers who may buy their permit from another club, seeing as the permit buyer had to fill in the club name, and of course that person to person connection that is shared through club vendors and buying direct from the club which at times leads to a gain in a volunteer ..... it was axed. Logisticaly and fincialy without risk it makes sense to use this single "club wizard" you speak of to distribute the OFSC mailings and OFSC info to the clubs membership. As was said a few times over in this thread, many would do nothing with this info, which I agree, it would be a waste of resources to spend the time and money to ensure single distribution of every faccet of OFSC business to every single permit buyer, when it can be done through volunteer channels. 80,000 permit buyers is a big mailing cost. As for e-data information typing in a permit number does not satisfy that this info is soley kept to the permit buyer, anyone with a pen and paper can get a permit number in any sled parking area, and this IMO would not satisfy corp due diligance to ensure this info is only available to permit holders. But again as said this org belongs to the permit buyer who is willing to help by putting time to run the org, and they have last say through their involvement, which by the way is open to all permit buyers to do so. But my personal opinion on the mail out proposed 3 years ago, it was a worthy venture that had outside income potential that would of made a lot more then it cost to do it. With that said I also beilieve that some info should only be shared with those involved, as they have an understanding of how things run within clubs, districts and associations and the OFSC .. IE, grooming costs, insurance signage, risk managment, policys and procidure .. ect. I would hate to have to field calls from people who just buy a permit and have zero understanding of an annual corp budget or how a club is actual run and what it all entails, and after a few whiskey sours they decide to dig into the budget and cure the OFSC of all it's short falls with a phone call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Who say they can't ? He just needs to ask Yukon for his clubs user ID and password, or get a copy off of who ever recieves the club mail. Why should I have to ask a gate keeper for permission. As stated by others... enter my permit number and name and I should have access. Gate keeper ??? loosen the fanny pack and step away from the Dungons and Dragons ...... Any one with pen and paper standing beside your sled could do the same, and there is no reason to allow that. I'm sure if you pm Yukon or any other club exec from your club and ask for the club log in info they would more then happy to give it to you. I'm suprized you don't already have it since you are an active volunteer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Here's a thought, STG, UTS or 02Sled or all three of you could volunteer to help the staff and volunteers that already handle how the OFSC releases information, and volunteer to help them service it, and find ways to fund it that apease the majority vote of all 231 clubs that are the OFSC. Let me know I can quickly put you in touch with everything you need to get going to save some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 You should probably write that up as a proposal and have five witnesses sign and then wait til next year to present that at the agm..........that is if you can find out the date in time from your club member who handles such things! The above was a joke. The sad part is is that it is based on truth. It is ? Write a proposal and find some to second it, then give it to a club member or present it to your club memmbership yourself and/or with your seconder, if majority vote agrees then it will go provincial and be presented at AGM ..... that's it nothing more. Or are you suggesting that any and every proposal writen by anyone should go directly to AGM ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 But my personal opinion on the mail out proposed 3 years ago, it was a worthy venture that had outside income potential that would of made a lot more then it cost to do it. With that said I also beilieve that some info should only be shared with those involved, as they have an understanding of how things run within clubs, districts and associations and the OFSC .. IE, grooming costs, insurance signage, risk managment, policys and procidure .. ect. I would hate to have to field calls from people who just buy a permit and have zero understanding of an annual corp budget or how a club is actual run and what it all entails, and after a few whiskey sours they decide to dig into the budget and cure the OFSC of all it's short falls with a phone call. Your thinking is dangerous. Everyone who owns a permit can and should be privy to all the OFSC's info. Your personal opinion is fine but it is not allowed by law. It is illegal to act that way. As for the mailing, lets not be obtuse. Lets use Senor O2Sled, He has a permit and #, once purchased all of his info is then put into a central database (this already exists) and when he wants info he creates a user ID and passowrd based on his personal info and permit #. No mailing dollars needed. It is very simple and Im sure there are many computer savvy volunteers (cough Skidooer cough) who could set this up without a second thought. This would cost us virtually nothing and free up said club volunteer for trail work versus administrative bullcrap that take up time. The thinking on that mailing is backwards and not in tune with our technolgical time. As for your thoughts again on info sharing with permit holders, I think you should really think about that. Its not for you or anyone to decide who gets what info or what they do with it. They legally are entitled to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 You should probably write that up as a proposal and have five witnesses sign and then wait til next year to present that at the agm..........that is if you can find out the date in time from your club member who handles such things! The above was a joke. The sad part is is that it is based on truth. It is ? Write a proposal and find some to second it, then give it to a club member or present it to your club memmbership yourself and/or with your seconder, if majority vote agrees then it will go provincial and be presented at AGM ..... that's it nothing more. Or are you suggesting that any and every proposal writen by anyone should go directly to AGM ? Why should we write a proposal and go thorugh all that rigamarole for some small stupid thing which is logical and will most likely be adopted anyway. How many things, idea's and actions are done without a proposal at an agm? Likely hundreds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 STG, UTS or 02Sled ... Those 3 disseminate information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 STG, UTS or 02Sled ... Those 3 disseminate information? I'll colour the pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 STG, UTS or 02Sled ... Those 3 disseminate information? I'll colour the pictures.  And I'm sure they'll be blue!  (Or is that blew?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 But my personal opinion on the mail out proposed 3 years ago, it was a worthy venture that had outside income potential that would of made a lot more then it cost to do it. With that said I also beilieve that some info should only be shared with those involved, as they have an understanding of how things run within clubs, districts and associations and the OFSC .. IE, grooming costs, insurance signage, risk managment, policys and procidure .. ect. I would hate to have to field calls from people who just buy a permit and have zero understanding of an annual corp budget or how a club is actual run and what it all entails, and after a few whiskey sours they decide to dig into the budget and cure the OFSC of all it's short falls with a phone call. Your thinking is dangerous. Everyone who owns a permit can and should be privy to all the OFSC's info. Your personal opinion is fine but it is not allowed by law. It is illegal to act that way. As for the mailing, lets not be obtuse. Lets use Senor O2Sled, He has a permit and #, once purchased all of his info is then put into a central database (this already exists) and when he wants info he creates a user ID and passowrd based on his personal info and permit #. No mailing dollars needed. It is very simple and Im sure there are many computer savvy volunteers (cough Skidooer cough) who could set this up without a second thought. This would cost us virtually nothing and free up said club volunteer for trail work versus administrative bullcrap that take up time. The thinking on that mailing is backwards and not in tune with our technolgical time. As for your thoughts again on info sharing with permit holders, I think you should really think about that. Its not for you or anyone to decide who gets what info or what they do with it. They legally are entitled to it! Please explain what is ilegall about what we are talking about, it has already been explained the OFSC does not sell permits, the clubs do that, and the stake holders of the OFSC are the clubs and the stake holders of the clubs are the permit buyers. Everyone who does buy a permit is privy to all OFSC information, you just diasagree with how that info is distributed. If you think it can be done the way you think it should be done, of course legaly done with corp due dilligance, then put it togther I will be happy to submit it for you if you or your seconder wish not to submit it yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Please explain what is ilegall about what we are talking about, it has already been explained the OFSC does not sell permits, the clubs do that, and the stake holders of the OFSC are the clubs and the stake holders of the clubs are the permit buyers. Why bother? I will just get the same ridiculous answer? I dont see any point when I can already write down your response for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 You should probably write that up as a proposal and have five witnesses sign and then wait til next year to present that at the agm..........that is if you can find out the date in time from your club member who handles such things! The above was a joke. The sad part is is that it is based on truth. It is ? Write a proposal and find some to second it, then give it to a club member or present it to your club memmbership yourself and/or with your seconder, if majority vote agrees then it will go provincial and be presented at AGM ..... that's it nothing more. Or are you suggesting that any and every proposal writen by anyone should go directly to AGM ? Why should we write a proposal and go thorugh all that rigamarole for some small stupid thing which is logical and will most likely be adopted anyway. How many things, idea's and actions are done without a proposal at an agm? Likely hundreds. What ringamarole, write it up have a seconder and submit or present it to your club ??? How many ideas and actions are done at AGM without a proposal and vote ? ... zero. Again I ask you do you feel any and every proposal writen by anyone should be brought straight to the floor at AGM, and not have some backing by the membership first, to judge it's value and feasabily ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Please explain what is ilegall about what we are talking about, it has already been explained the OFSC does not sell permits, the clubs do that, and the stake holders of the OFSC are the clubs and the stake holders of the clubs are the permit buyers. Why bother? I will just get the same ridiculous answer? I dont see any point when I can already write down your response for you! So if you feel it's ilegall then file a suit, you buy a permit The answer you get is the facts, you just don't like it ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Please explain what is ilegall about what we are talking about, it has already been explained the OFSC does not sell permits, the clubs do that, and the stake holders of the OFSC are the clubs and the stake holders of the clubs are the permit buyers. Why bother? I will just get the same ridiculous answer? I don't see any point when I can already write down your response for you! So if you feel it's illegal then file a suit, you buy a permit The answer you get is the facts, you just don't like it ..... No Nutter, what I said was I'm not getting any answers from you. I'm getting process. I know the process. Its ridiculous. I'm suggesting an alternative to the process and you keep telling me how its done. What is the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 What ringamarole, write it up have a seconder and submit or present it to your club ??? How many ideas and actions are done at AGM without a proposal and vote ? ... zero. Again I ask you do you feel any and every proposal writen by anyone should be brought straight to the floor at AGM, and not have some backing by the membership first, to judge it's value and feasabily ? No Nutter, what I said was the OFSC performs actions based upon a mandate from the clubs. Not all of these actions are debated or proposed at the AGM. I didnt mention anything about actions at the AGM. The mandate given by the clubs to the ofsc allows them to take some liberalities with respect that they would act in the best interest of the clubs. Im suggesting that it is logistically impossible for all independant actions or descisions to be made by proposal at the AGM. A notion you yourself alluded to many times. So stop telling me to bring up a proposal from my club to the AGM in order to make changes. Im not talking fundamental policy changes I am talk about actions that could easily be decided on a daily basis without going to the agm, somthing I know the OFSC does on a daily basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 No Nutter, what I said was the OFSC performs actions based upon a mandate from the clubs. Not all of these actions are debated or proposed at the AGM. I didnt mention anything about actions at the AGM. The mandate given by the clubs to the ofsc allows them to take some liberalities with respect that they would act in the best interest of the clubs. Im suggesting that it is logistically impossible for all independant actions or descisions to be made by proposal at the AGM. A notion you yourself alluded to many times. So stop telling me to bring up a proposal from my club to the AGM in order to make changes. Im not talking fundamental policy changes I am talk about actions that could easily be decided on a daily basis without going to the agm, somthing I know the OFSC does on a daily basis. All OFSC by-laws and policies along with it's annual financials are voted and passed or passed with amendments by the membership each and every year at AGM. A change as you mentioned was once already proposed by the BOG (already mentioned mail out) and was vetoed by the membership. In fact the mail out was passed by the BOG and did make a one year appearance before getting axed by the membership, which is the first time I recall the membership ever over turning something the board implemented. I'm glad you feel you know what the OFSC does on a daily bases, that must mean you are well informed, but sorry you do not like that your posting an idea on a website should come to fruition without due process, because you think it's a logical idea, but it will not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 All OFSC by-laws and policies along with it's annual financials are voted and passed or passed with amendments by the membership each and every year at AGM. A change as you mentioned was once already proposed by the BOG (already mentioned mail out) and was vetoed by the membership. In fact the mail out was passed by the BOG and did make a one year appearance before getting axed by the membership, which is the first time I recall the membership ever over turning something the board implemented. I'm glad you feel you know what the OFSC does on a daily bases, that must mean you are well informed, but sorry you do not like that your posting an idea on a website should come to fruition without due process, because you think it's a logical idea, but it will not happen. More process. I got it the first time a year ago. Not my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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