OFSC AGM 2010 Who's Going from OC

[skidooer]

Sorry you don't like my methods of critique Dooer, but I'm a straight shooter, I don't beat around the bush with my opinions and I don't waste other peoples time or money as well as my own.

I did not say that. I, for one, welcome and appreciate your insight into the topics. That is exactly why I, and most other people, open them up for peer review instead of going straight to the club. The clubs have enough to worry about, they don't need a bunch of stupid ideas being presented on top. People like yourself provide the perfect filter to determine if the idea is worthy of going to the next step.

Your method of critique is exactly what is needed when discussing the issues. However, you cannot at the same time claim that nobody is willing to step up. They did step up and you shot them down. That is not a bad thing in and of itself, but if you want to see people step up and stay up, you need to nurture the ideas and help them learn to become the proposal writing machine that you have become.

If you are unwilling to do that, you cannot complain that nobody is willing to help.

[Nutter]

I knew you wrote that. I was basically commenting on your attitude. It doesnt seem very positive although I do believe that such an open meeting would be logistically impossible.

I don't know how I could be more positive about it ? Logisticaly it can't be done, and resource and time wise it shouldn't be done, but if someone shows enough want to get a reg from their local club then by all means we'd love to have ya.

[Nutter]

Sorry you don't like my methods of critique Dooer, but I'm a straight shooter, I don't beat around the bush with my opinions and I don't waste other peoples time or money as well as my own.

I did not say that. I, for one, welcome and appreciate your insight into the topics. That is exactly why I, and most other people, open them up for peer review instead of going straight to the club. The clubs have enough to worry about, they don't need a bunch of stupid ideas being presented on top. People like yourself provide the perfect filter to determine if the idea is worthy of going to the next step.

Your method of critique is exactly what is needed when discussing the issues. However, you cannot at the same time claim that nobody is willing to step up. They did step up and you shot them down. That is not a bad thing in and of itself, but if you want to see people step up and stay up, you need to nurture the ideas and help them learn to become the proposal writing machine that you have become.

If you are unwilling to do that, you cannot complain that nobody is willing to help.

Step up ? I'm sorry but you wont want to hear this either, and call me what you want for it ... Blogging thoughts on line is not stepping up, sending me or another club member an e-mail or phone call and actually setting up something to work on an idea is stepping up. I don't know many who volunteer enough time as it is, that can chase random thoughts on line from people who are not even willing to come out and give a hand once in while, and learn a little and present there ideas with some understandinbg of what it takes to put sleds on groomed trails. I easily put in over a 100 a year of my own time on my own phones calling people who say they want to come out and be involved but never do, even after repeated calls, so don't tell me I cannot complain about keyboard volunteers.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

I knew you wrote that. I was basically commenting on your attitude. It doesnt seem very positive although I do believe that such an open meeting would be logistically impossible.

I don't know how I could be more positive about it ? Logisticaly it can't be done, and resource and time wise it shouldn't be done, but if someone shows enough want to get a reg from their local club then by all means we'd love to have ya.

I wouldnt call "Ill informed and Frivolous concerns" positive. and secondly, why would someone have to get a reg from the local club to go? That is not correct.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Sorry you don't like my methods of critique Dooer, but I'm a straight shooter, I don't beat around the bush with my opinions and I don't waste other peoples time or money as well as my own.

I did not say that. I, for one, welcome and appreciate your insight into the topics. That is exactly why I, and most other people, open them up for peer review instead of going straight to the club. The clubs have enough to worry about, they don't need a bunch of stupid ideas being presented on top. People like yourself provide the perfect filter to determine if the idea is worthy of going to the next step.

Your method of critique is exactly what is needed when discussing the issues. However, you cannot at the same time claim that nobody is willing to step up. They did step up and you shot them down. That is not a bad thing in and of itself, but if you want to see people step up and stay up, you need to nurture the ideas and help them learn to become the proposal writing machine that you have become.

If you are unwilling to do that, you cannot complain that nobody is willing to help.

Step up ? I'm sorry but you wont want to hear this either, and call me what you want for it ... Blogging thoughts on line is not stepping up, sending me or another club member an e-mail or phone call and actually setting up something to work on an idea is stepping up. I don't know many who volunteer enough time as it is, that can chase random thoughts on line from people who are not even willing to come out and give a hand once in while, and learn a little and present there ideas with some understandinbg of what it takes to put sleds on groomed trails. I easily put in over a 100 a year of my own time on my own phones calling people who say they want to come out and be involved but never do, even after repeated calls, so don't tell me I cannot complain about keyboard volunteers.

Volunteerism is much more than moving branches aside.

[Nutter]

I knew you wrote that. I was basically commenting on your attitude. It doesnt seem very positive although I do believe that such an open meeting would be logistically impossible.

I don't know how I could be more positive about it ? Logisticaly it can't be done, and resource and time wise it shouldn't be done, but if someone shows enough want to get a reg from their local club then by all means we'd love to have ya.

I wouldnt call "Ill informed and Frivolous concerns" positive. and secondly, why would someone have to get a reg from the local club to go? That is not correct.

Why ?

[Nutter]

Volunteerism is much more than moving branches aside.

No kidding, do you consider throwing the odd idea of how something should be done on line volunteering, and that other volunteers should jump to try and implement it no matter what their thoughts are on it ?

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Why ?

WHy what? Why is it not positive?

Or why shouldnt you have to get a pass to go to the AGM?

I already addressed both of these.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Volunteerism is much more than moving branches aside.

No kidding, do you consider throwing the odd idea of how something should be done on line volunteering, and that other volunteers should jump to try and implement it no matter what their thoughts are on it ?

I do consider it volunteering. Thats not what Skidooer is saying although I know what he is going to say and has set you up for it but here goes.

I (Nutter) as a rep of the PPSC and the OFSC am on a popular snowmobile forum. I read a suggestion that someone who doesnt or hasnt volunteered but has a great idea and shares it with us online. That is their only way to contribute for whatever reason. I then nurture that idea and implement it into my platform. Has the original idea not been a form of volunteerism? The person has volunteered their thoughts and does not have the ability to help but this benefits us and the ofsc. Is that not volunteering something? I suggest it is.

[Nutter]

Why ?

WHy what? Why is it not positive?

Or why shouldnt you have to get a pass to go to the AGM?

I already addressed both of these.

Pass what pass ? I'm asking why you think it's wrong that clubs distribute the registration forms for AGM ?

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Why ?

WHy what? Why is it not positive?

Or why shouldnt you have to get a pass to go to the AGM?

I already addressed both of these.

Pass what pass ? I'm asking why you think it's wrong that clubs distribute the registration forms for AGM ?

Anyone who has bought a permit should be able to go.

[Nutter]

Volunteerism is much more than moving branches aside.

No kidding, do you consider throwing the odd idea of how something should be done on line volunteering, and that other volunteers should jump to try and implement it no matter what their thoughts are on it ?

I do consider it volunteering. Thats not what Skidooer is saying although I know what he is going to say and has set you up for it but here goes.

I (Nutter) as a rep of the PPSC and the OFSC am on a popular snowmobile forum. I read a suggestion that someone who doesnt or hasnt volunteered but has a great idea and shares it with us online. That is their only way to contribute for whatever reason. I then nurture that idea and implement it into my platform. Has the original idea not been a form of volunteerism? The person has volunteered their thoughts and does not have the ability to help but this benefits us and the ofsc. Is that not volunteering something? I suggest it is.

If I read a post of an idea and the person is willing to put some time in implementing it, IMO sure it's volunteering.

But suggesting we bar code all permits and let them be printed on line, and TP, STOP and Police run around with bar code readers, and I comment that I feel it wouldn't work and we argue on line why I feel that way for 3 days and it's over ...... I would say no that is not volunteering.

If he pressed the idea and really believed in it and understood it wouldn't work in that form and wanted to further it, and exchange ideas to modify it to work or use some of the idea some where and showed some want to do it, then yes I would consider that volunteering.

Here's one for you two seasons ago JMP2204 over on Freedom Sledder came up with an idea of something that could wrap around a permit to make it more appealing, many balked at the idea, he pressed and sent me a few sketches, we worked together with TVBrian and came up with a proto type and had a few made, now our club has adopted them successfully and we have sent templates to many other clubs around the province. Would TVB and I of taken his idea and worked with it without him helping .... not a chance.

But hey these are just my opinions don't like me or want to discredit me for it knock yourself out.

[Nutter]

Why ?

WHy what? Why is it not positive?

Or why shouldnt you have to get a pass to go to the AGM?

I already addressed both of these.

Pass what pass ? I'm asking why you think it's wrong that clubs distribute the registration forms for AGM ?

Anyone who has bought a permit should be able to go.

And they can, they just have to pick up or have faxed or e-mailed a reg form from their local club, district or assocation, fill it out and and their all set up to go to AGM. I don't undersand your arguement anymore ?

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Why ?

WHy what? Why is it not positive?

Or why shouldnt you have to get a pass to go to the AGM?

I already addressed both of these.

Pass what pass ? I'm asking why you think it's wrong that clubs distribute the registration forms for AGM ?

Anyone who has bought a permit should be able to go.

And they can, they just have to pick up or have faxed or e-mailed a reg form from their local club, district or assocation, fill it out and and their all set up to go to AGM. I don't undersand your arguement anymore ?

Well thats good. I would think all that should be needed was a copy of your permit tho.

Nutter, I dont argue back and forth to discredit you or because I dont like you. I actually admire you for you dedication and your passion. I dont always agree with you tho and that I think is a good thing. I never confuse argument with dislike. Different ideas help not hinder.

[Canuck]

This began with a suggestion that the location of annual AGM be easier to find.

OFSC seems to be set up like Parliament. You reside in a District, and elect a District head. The Districts send reps to the AGM. Anyone can run for election, etc.

Where OFSC differs, however, is the that the venue's location; who can view proceedings, etc. appears limited.

The OFSC is a hybrid of government and private (individual permit) funding. It should be more transparent.

[Nutter]

This began with a suggestion that the location of annual AGM be easier to find.

OFSC seems to be set up like Parliament. You reside in a District, and elect a District head. The Districts send reps to the AGM. Anyone can run for election, etc.

Where OFSC differs, however, is the that the venue's location; who can view proceedings, etc. appears limited.

The OFSC is a hybrid of government and private (individual permit) funding. It should be more transparent.

The OFSC is 100% transparent to it's membership (the permit buyer), just because you have go through local levels to save the org cost to get what you want certainly doesn't mean it isn't transparent. Same goes for viewing proceedings ...ect, while not public it is all open to all it's members.

My question is do some of you think this stuff should be open to the public for all to see, even those who have no vested interest in the OFSC and possibly be against the sport, and use this info to lobby their cause ? Should they be able to see our financials, grants given, permit income, legal issues, policies and procedures ...ect. IMO not a chance, those with proven vested interest (permit buyers) and enough want to get off their tuckus and find this stuff out that's readily available to them if they want it, sure it's not all that hard for non members to get this info if they really wanted it, but the OFSC as our umbrella corp must practic duediligance to provide that info to our membership only, and not the general public. And in the opinion of many not only is it a cost savings to do this from the club down, but it also serves as a built in screening by it's own membership.

There is absolutly no need for some granola chomping sandal wearing turtle rescuer to have easy privy access to this info.

[SlowTouringGuy]

<sigh>

I said nothing about the general public. I said that "I" as a permit holder and a club member and a volunteer extrordinaire found it odd that the OFSC website did not make it apparent to "me" the permit holder and club member where the AGM was being held. And, I further commented (in a criticism of the lack of OFSC transparency) that the OFSC should show leadership to the clubs by encouraging the desemination of more information to its members in a more modern fashion and make it easier for members to engage.

Fax applications? What century are they operating in?

Permit Holders are the Ultimate Shareholders of the OFSC. The more they are welcomed the stronger the organization. Bigger organizations have learned - Turn a deaf ear to your shareholders and they will punish you.

[Canuck]

It's a bit of a leap from publicizing the location of AGM to 'abuse' of the information by someone with an axe to grind.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

This began with a suggestion that the location of annual AGM be easier to find.

OFSC seems to be set up like Parliament. You reside in a District, and elect a District head. The Districts send reps to the AGM. Anyone can run for election, etc.

Where OFSC differs, however, is the that the venue's location; who can view proceedings, etc. appears limited.

The OFSC is a hybrid of government and private (individual permit) funding. It should be more transparent.

The OFSC is 100% transparent to it's membership (the permit buyer), just because you have go through local levels to save the org cost to get what you want certainly doesn't mean it isn't transparent. Same goes for viewing proceedings ...ect, while not public it is all open to all it's members.

My question is do some of you think this stuff should be open to the public for all to see, even those who have no vested interest in the OFSC and possibly be against the sport, and use this info to lobby their cause ? Should they be able to see our financials, grants given, permit income, legal issues, policies and procedures ...ect. IMO not a chance, those with proven vested interest (permit buyers) and enough want to get off their tuckus and find this stuff out that's readily available to them if they want it, sure it's not all that hard for non members to get this info if they really wanted it, but the OFSC as our umbrella corp must practic duediligance to provide that info to our membership only, and not the general public. And in the opinion of many not only is it a cost savings to do this from the club down, but it also serves as a built in screening by it's own membership.

There is absolutly no need for some granola chomping sandal wearing turtle rescuer to have easy privy access to this info.

I can erase this if you wish.

[Nutter]

<sigh>

I said nothing about the general public. I said that "I" as a permit holder and a club member and a volunteer extrordinaire found it odd that the OFSC website did not make it apparent to "me" the permit holder and club member where the AGM was being held. And, I further commented (in a criticism of the lack of OFSC transparency) that the OFSC should show leadership to the clubs by encouraging the desemination of more information to its members in a more modern fashion and make it easier for members to engage.

Fax applications? What century are they operating in?

Permit Holders are the Ultimate Shareholders of the OFSC. The more they are welcomed the stronger the organization. Bigger organizations have learned - Turn a deaf ear to your shareholders and they will punish you.

Well if you don't like fax, e-mail or picking one up, then log in to the club house section with your local clubs pass work and user ID and download and print one off and send it in and buy first round at the on line meet and greet we have each year at AGM.

Maybe tell us how you would like to get this "more information out without it being public" ? Can you tell me what was the content on page 3 of the last main trail mag, it is readily available to all OFSC members through their local club, or you don't know cause you haven't read it .... and think we should spend the money to deliver one to each permit buyer ? Deaf ear ? all the info is there the OFSC is asa transparent as you want it to be, the majority of volunteers just feel it should only be releasd to permit buyers through their local clubs.

[Nutter]

It's a bit of a leap from publicizing the location of AGM to 'abuse' of the information by someone with an axe to grind.

Can you show me links to any other none profit pay per use org that publishes their upcoming AGM info on line ?

Not 100% sure but you might want to check out last seasons first edition of the Go Snowmobiling mag that was mailed to each permit buyer who checked the box to recieve it, I beleive Collingwood as the next AGM venue was mentioned in the AGM report ?

[sledjunk]

It's a bit of a leap from publicizing the location of AGM to 'abuse' of the information by someone with an axe to grind.

Can you show me links to any other none profit pay per use org that publishes their upcoming AGM info on line ?

CARS

MLRC

RallySport Ontario

[Canuck]

Nutter - Youth hockey organizations are pay per use (ie $300 to play for the season). They are registered, not for profit organizations.

Hockey AGM's are in the spring, and I will mail you the links. Each club has an AGM; the governing bodies have AGM's, etc.

Ever hear the term 'hockey mom or dad?'. Tough crowd. If the various hockey officials (also volunteers) can be accountable, in an open manner, so can OFSC.

No one is suggesting anything is amiss. However, it might be time to open the doors and communicate in a better manner with the populace.

I note that the OFSC has a new president. Look forward to her leadership (and STG - she's based in Huntsville. They just love SnowCrest riders up there :poke: . Just kidding - just clicked on the SnowCrest website and WOW - everything from golf tournaments to notice of AGM :poke: :poke: )

History has been made this week by the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs. The OFSC Board of Governors has elected its first female President. Brenda Welsh, a long-term volunteer from Huntsville was elected to the position this week. Welsh had previously served as the organization's Secretary-Treasurer. She and her husband Tom operate Huntsville Marine. Welsh will serve a two-year term and succeeds Bruce Robinson.

[Nutter]

Can you show me links to any other none profit pay per use org that publishes their upcoming AGM info on line ?

CARS

MLRC

RallySport Ontario

I was thinking more along the lines of something like the OFSC, private corp pay per use orgs, like Ontario Place, Metro Zoo, The ROM ...ect, not non asset holding clubs. But again it's up to the membership if they want this info published to the public, and the OFSC wishes not to do so.

[Nutter]

Nutter - Youth hockey organizations are pay per use (ie $300 to play for the season). They are registered, not for profit organizations.

Hockey AGM's are in the spring, and I will mail you the links. Each club has an AGM; the governing bodies have AGM's, etc.

Ever hear the term 'hockey mom or dad?'. Tough crowd. If the various hockey officials (also volunteers) can be accountable, in an open manner, so can OFSC.

No one is suggesting anything is amiss. However, it might be time to open the doors and communicate in a better manner with the populace.

I note that the OFSC has a new president. Look forward to her leadership (and STG - she's based in Huntsville. They just love SnowCrest riders up there :poke: . Just kidding - just clicked on the SnowCrest website and WOW - everything from golf tournaments to notice of AGM :poke: :poke: )

History has been made this week by the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs. The OFSC Board of Governors has elected its first female President. Brenda Welsh, a long-term volunteer from Huntsville was elected to the position this week. Welsh had previously served as the organization's Secretary-Treasurer. She and her husband Tom operate Huntsville Marine. Welsh will serve a two-year term and succeeds Bruce Robinson.

What I don't get is why you guys say the info is not there, it's there for any member who wants it, it's just not there for public viewing put out by the OFSC it's self.

Is hockey in danger of loosing arenas by greenies or figure skaters protesting their use for hockey Both my kids played within Oshawa Minor Hockey Ass, I just checked their website and didn't see any AGM info, nore was ever invited to one, went to many banquets though.