Canuck Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Can you show me links to any other none profit pay per use org that publishes their upcoming AGM info on line ? CARS MLRC RallySport Ontario I was thinking more along the lines of something like the OFSC, private corp pay per use orgs, like Ontario Place, Metro Zoo, The ROM ...ect, not non asset holding clubs. But again it's up to the membership if they want this info published to the public, and the OFSC wishes not to do so. The Google link states "Non-profit organization composed of the 260 local snowmobile clubs and their associations". Diving further, "The Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs is a non-profit, volunteer driven organization, mandated by its member clubs to act on a provincial level for the greater good of organized snowmobiling. Ontario's 231(sic) local snowmobile clubs are formed into 17 districts, each represented at the provincial level by an elected Governor and an Operations Director." I don't think OFSC is a private corp. It is a non-profit organization driven by volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 What I don't get is why you guys say the info is not there, it's there for any member who wants it, it's just not there for public viewing put out by the OFSC it's self. Is hockey in danger of loosing arenas by greenies or figure skaters protesting their use for hockey Both my kids played within Oshawa Minor Hockey Ass, I just checked their website and didn't see any AGM info, nore was ever invited to one, went to many banquets though. Dont spin this like our very sport is threatened if the OFSC would publically release this info. If your so worried about losing our sport maybe its not being run correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Is hockey in danger of loosing arenas by greenies or figure skaters protesting their use for hockey Nutter, I was reluctant to say this, but I see many similarities between how the OFSC 'appears' to be operating and the state of youth hockey before the press went nuts about hidden financials, lack of budgets, lack of audited statements, etc. It's all fine, until it isn't. What some are suggesting - advise where the AGM is; let those interested into the room to listen, meet, discuss issues at the Ontario level. As for a conscious decision 'not to publicize'? Please provide where, in the minutes, that decision was made. It could simply be that someone forgot to post it on the website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Can you show me links to any other none profit pay per use org that publishes their upcoming AGM info on line ? CARS MLRC RallySport Ontario I was thinking more along the lines of something like the OFSC, private corp pay per use orgs, like Ontario Place, Metro Zoo, The ROM ...ect, not non asset holding clubs. But again it's up to the membership if they want this info published to the public, and the OFSC wishes not to do so. Information you requested doesnt help your case? SJ's links are correct. Dont forget Nutter the very assets you describe were purchased by permit holders themselves, the very prople who should get this info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 And as was said many times over and over and over again and again, all the info is available for any permit buyer at any time they wish, all they have to do is ask for it and prove they are permit holder. The OFSC is 100% transparent, and it's AGM is open to any permit holder to attend. The majority of the membership just does not wish to have this info open to the public. Want the financials ask a club member if your not already involved in a club, want to know the dates of AGM ask a club member if your not already involved in a club, want to know anything else just ask a club member ..... The OFSC has to act under the Ontario corperations act, just as the clubs that make up the OFSC do, and they do what the stake holders ask of them. And yes Canuck the OFSC is a private corp. I just checked the Shriners site for AGM info since I was a little disapointed at thier last circus performance at $26 a ticket ... hmmmm couldn't find a damn thing, logicaly I would ask a Shriner if I really cared. Same for the Metro Zoo the ROM and Ontario Place .... Enough time waste here again, if anyone of you really cared you would already know all this info is there for any permit buyer. Have fun fishing for someone else who doesn't agree with your opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 And as was said many times over and over and over again and again, all the info is available for any permit buyer at any time they wish, all they have to do is ask for it and prove they are permit holder. The OFSC is 100% transparent, and it's AGM is open to any permit holder to attend. The majority of the membership just does not wish to have this info open to the public. Want the financials ask a club member if your not already involved in a club, want to know the dates of AGM ask a club member if your not already involved in a club, want to know anything else just ask a club member ..... The OFSC has to act under the Ontario corperations act, just as the clubs that make up the OFSC do, and they do what the stake holders ask of them. And yes Canuck the OFSC is a private corp. I just checked the Shriners site for AGM info since I was a little disapointed at thier last circus performance at $26 a ticket ... hmmmm couldn't find a damn thing, logicaly I would ask a Shriner if I really cared. Same for the Metro Zoo the ROM and Ontario Place .... Enough time waste here again, if anyone of you really cared you would already know all this info is there for any permit buyer. Have fun fishing for someone else who doesn't agree with your opinions But if we as shareholders are asking for this stuff, is it a waste of time? Why should we ahave to ask a club member what date the AGM is. Isnt that kind of assinine in this day and age? With all this wonderful technology wouldnt it be easier to post it. Why make it so difficult? Seems like its kinda fishy. Maybe a simple page with news and events. I dont think thats too much to ask. Taken from The Canadian Corporations Act, Section 2 Subsection 3 Under the federal CCA, the membership must meet at least once a year to review the financial statements and associated report of the auditor and to appoint an auditor for the coming year. So the way I read this is every year you must inform each shareholder of the date and time of meeting and provide the financial statement to each memeber to prepare beforehand. By the way, I know this is law. What the OFSC is doing is illegal. Sorry but thats the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Nutter, U should probably re read some of your statements and realize that these policies are illegal. Sorry UTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Nutter, U should probably re read some of your statements and realize that these policies are illegal. Sorry UTS Ya sure the OFSC is operating illegally, they just use a back ally legal team to advise of $20 million worth of budget and corp actions every year ... your killing me UTS killing me You do realize the stake holders fall under the club corporations act that they are member of (who they buy their permit from, there is no permits sold through the OFSC alone and no OFSC membership persay other through a local club), and the clubs fall under the OFSC corporations act as the OFSC is their umbrella of which they are members of. It is your local clubs duty to make available all the information needed (eg OFSC club house user id or password, main trail and all OFSC mailings ...ect) if not it is the memberships duty to elect a competent exec to make it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Nutter, U should probably re read some of your statements and realise that these ploicies are illegal. Sorry UTS Ya sure the OFSC is operating illegally, they just use a back ally legal team to advise of $20 million worth of budget and corp actions every year ... your killing me UTS killing me You do realize the stake holders fall under the club corporations act that they are member of (who they buy their permit from, there is no permits sold through the OFSC alone and no OFSC membership persay other through a local club), and the clubs fall under the OFSC corporations act as the OFSC is their umbrella of which they are members of. It is your local clubs duty to make available all the information needed (eg OFSC club house user id or password, main trail and all OFSC mailings ...ect) if not it is the memberships duty to elect a competent exec to make it so. I knew you would be back! NUtter you can spin it anyway you want but it comes down to the law and the OFSC makes, distributes and sells the permits. Quoted from their website......... 1. that snowmobilers should purchase Snowmobile Trail Permits from the club that maintains the trails they ride the most often. 2.All of the revenue from all Snowmobile Trail Permit sales goes to the OFSC and its clubs. 3.The Full Seasonal Trail Permit may be purchased from OFSC clubs, associations or districts or online at this web site. 4.The OFSC is providing the privilege of trail access 5.Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs Non-profit organization composed of the 260 local snowmobile clubs and their associations. Includes information about trails, events, safety and links. Bottom line is that its the duty of the OFSC to inform and invite members to its financial papers and AGM. No matter what you say this is the law. The way its being handled is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Groomer Guy Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 Ok...... So Who's Going to Be a the AGM..................... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Nutter, U should probably re read some of your statements and realise that these ploicies are illegal. Sorry UTS Ya sure the OFSC is operating illegally, they just use a back ally legal team to advise of $20 million worth of budget and corp actions every year ... your killing me UTS killing me You do realize the stake holders fall under the club corporations act that they are member of (who they buy their permit from, there is no permits sold through the OFSC alone and no OFSC membership persay other through a local club), and the clubs fall under the OFSC corporations act as the OFSC is their umbrella of which they are members of. It is your local clubs duty to make available all the information needed (eg OFSC club house user id or password, main trail and all OFSC mailings ...ect) if not it is the memberships duty to elect a competent exec to make it so. I knew you would be back! NUtter you can spin it anyway you want but it comes down to the law and the OFSC makes, distributes and sells the permits. Quoted from their website......... 1. that snowmobilers should purchase Snowmobile Trail Permits from the club that maintains the trails they ride the most often. 2.All of the revenue from all Snowmobile Trail Permit sales goes to the OFSC and its clubs. 3.The Full Seasonal Trail Permit may be purchased from OFSC clubs, associations or districts or online at this web site. 4.The OFSC is providing the privilege of trail access 5.Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs Non-profit organization composed of the 260 local snowmobile clubs and their associations. Includes information about trails, events, safety and links. Bottom line is that its the duty of the OFSC to inform and invite members to its financial papers and AGM. No matter what you say this is the law. The way its being handled is incorrect. Each and every permit is identified by the selling club, the OFSC as an entity does not sell permits, they cannot as per OFSC by-laws. It's duty to report is fulfilled when it reports to it's stake holders ....... the clubs. If you walk up to the door of the OFSC office in Barrie there is a sign telling you that you cannot by permits from the OFSC, when purchasing on line you cannot complete a transaction without selecting a club to purchase from. The OFSC does not sell permits, they are purely a collective administrating and governing body made up of 231 clubs from across the province, to which they receive instruction from and have to answer to, each club has to answer to it's membership and carry their members voices and concerns to a regional level or the provincial level if warranted by the membership, the permit buyer is top of the food chain and runs the OFSC through their involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 the permit buyer is top of the food chain and runs the OFSC through their involvement. They why not be more transaparent and let everyone know when the AGM is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 the permit buyer is top of the food chain and runs the OFSC through their involvement. They why not be more transaparent and let everyone know when the AGM is. As said the OFSC is 100% transparent but everything goes through the clubs, associations or districts from where people buy their permits from, as they are the OFSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Like I said guys, you already have close to or over 1000 under one roof trying to get business for the year done, voting on by-law and policy changes and budget ..ect and taking in seminars and workshops. With anymore where and how would you ever get anything done over the course of 2 days, and at what cost ? I'll add to that, that no one is ever refused entry to AGM, if they wish to go all they have to get a registration form from their local club and their in (they may also be voted by their club membership top the clubs voting delegate), if they don't know there's an annual OFSC AGM and when and where it is, then it would be a given they have not even gone to a club meeting and it would be a gross waste of money along with their and everyone else's time for them to be there. if they don't know there's an annual OFSC AGM and when and where it is, then it would be a given they have not even gone to a club meeting and it would be a gross waste of money along with their and everyone else's time for them to be there. Wrong! I have attended our club meetings that I am made aware of and am able to. Unfortunately they tend to be on weekdays which makes it feasable for the locals only. I believe I am an active member in my local club doing what I can in trail patrol and helping out at events. However I just learned a couple of weeks ago that there is an annual OFSC AGM although I attended our clubs AGM. I still know very little about the veunue. As for a waste of money I expect it would be my money as I would not be expecting anyone to pay for me to be a volunteer any more than I expect the club to reimburse me for trail patrol. As for a waste of time then yes it becomes an old boy's club. Any opportunity to engage more people to become active and participate should be embraced. I am going to investigate attending so that: - I can learn more about how my permit dollars are allocated and spent. I find it utterly amazing the way I see some of the money spent today with little or no consideration on ROI in some cases. - I can investigate other opportunities to become more involved with my local club and the sledding community at large. - I can become more educated in general. I OBJECT TO SUGGESTING MY ATTENDANCE WOULD BE A WASTE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 the permit buyer is top of the food chain and runs the OFSC through their involvement. They why not be more transaparent and let everyone know when the AGM is. As said the OFSC is 100% transparent but everything goes through the clubs, associations or districts from where people buy their permits from, as they are the OFSC. Why not just cut the political party line........... Its a simple solution. Post the date on the website in a news format and with a simple caveat at the bottom saying anyone who wishes financials, please email us and we will provide them.........Why hide it through layers of website? Are we going to go into the green eco spy thing again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Ok...... So Who's Going to Be a the AGM.....................  lol Bet you're sorry you asked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Ok...... So Who's Going to Be a the AGM.....................  lol Bet you're sorry you asked I hope not. I think these discussions are very important and help the process as a whole. Argument and different opinions are a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 <sigh> I said nothing about the general public. I said that "I" as a permit holder and a club member and a volunteer extrordinaire found it odd that the OFSC website did not make it apparent to "me" the permit holder and club member where the AGM was being held. And, I further commented (in a criticism of the lack of OFSC transparency) that the OFSC should show leadership to the clubs by encouraging the desemination of more information to its members in a more modern fashion and make it easier for members to engage. Fax applications? What century are they operating in? Permit Holders are the Ultimate Shareholders of the OFSC. The more they are welcomed the stronger the organization. Bigger organizations have learned - Turn a deaf ear to your shareholders and they will punish you. Well if you don't like fax, e-mail or picking one up, then log in to the club house section with your local clubs pass work and user ID and download and print one off and send it in and buy first round at the on line meet and greet we have each year at AGM. Maybe tell us how you would like to get this "more information out without it being public" ? Can you tell me what was the content on page 3 of the last main trail mag, it is readily available to all OFSC members through their local club, or you don't know cause you haven't read it .... and think we should spend the money to deliver one to each permit buyer ? Deaf ear ? all the info is there the OFSC is asa transparent as you want it to be, the majority of volunteers just feel it should only be releasd to permit buyers through their local clubs. Another one I have just recently heard about and been sledding for 6 years. Main Trail Mag. So much for trasnparency. Whu do I need an ID and password to find this? Why can't it just be available on the OFSC website if things are truly transparent? Why does it need to be hidden or jump through hoops to get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 if they don't know there's an annual OFSC AGM and when and where it is, then it would be a given they have not even gone to a club meeting and it would be a gross waste of money along with their and everyone else's time for them to be there. Wrong! I have attended our club meetings that I am made aware of and am able to. Unfortunately they tend to be on weekdays which makes it feasable for the locals only. I believe I am an active member in my local club doing what I can in trail patrol and helping out at events. However I just learned a couple of weeks ago that there is an annual OFSC AGM although I attended our clubs AGM. I still know very little about the veunue. As for a waste of money I expect it would be my money as I would not be expecting anyone to pay for me to be a volunteer any more than I expect the club to reimburse me for trail patrol. As for a waste of time then yes it becomes an old boy's club. Any opportunity to engage more people to become active and participate should be embraced. I am going to investigate attending so that: - I can learn more about how my permit dollars are allocated and spent. I find it utterly amazing the way I see some of the money spent today with little or no consideration on ROI in some cases. - I can investigate other opportunities to become more involved with my local club and the sledding community at large. - I can become more educated in general. I OBJECT TO SUGGESTING MY ATTENDANCE WOULD BE A WASTE! No one is objecting ..... your involved with your local club and know about AGM through your involvement, if you wish to know more ask more ... whats the problem ? there is AGM packages sent to every club for distribution or review by it's members ? You just learned a few weeks ago there was an OFSC AGM ??? then why the AGM outcome questions at the show last year to me and Yukon at the Dist 7 booth ? You seem like a smart fellow, one would think you would know an org like the OFSC has an annual AGM. Why not just cut the political party line........... Its a simple solution. Post the date on the website in a news format and with a simple caveat at the bottom saying anyone who wishes financials, please email us and we will provide them.........Why hide it through layers of website? Are we going to go into the green eco spy thing again? As said the OFSC will not provide them to the general public as there is absolutly no reason what so ever to do so, the OFSC is legaly only able to give them to stake holders (the clubs), from there the stake holders provide them to the permit buyer. Pretty simple to understand if you ask me ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Ok...... So Who's Going to Be a the AGM.....................  lol Bet you're sorry you asked I hope not. I think these discussions are very important and help the process as a whole. Argument and different opinions are a good thing. It would be a very scary world if everyoe thought the same. Nothing would ever change or progress. Disagreement encourages active thought and evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Another one I have just recently heard about and been sledding for 6 years. Main Trail Mag. So much for trasnparency. Whu do I need an ID and password to find this? Why can't it just be available on the OFSC website if things are truly transparent? Why does it need to be hidden or jump through hoops to get it? Main trail is the OFSC news publication, copies are sent out to every club, district and association for distribution or review by the membership. If you are not recieving it I suggest you ask your club exec why this is. The club house section of the OFSC website is not for the general public, each club within the OFSC has a user ID and pass word. I find it hard to beleive you do not know about or have access to either of these when Yukon is your clubs VIA coordinator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 As said the OFSC will not provide them to the general public as there is absolutly no reason what so ever to do so, the OFSC is legaly only able to give them to stake holders (the clubs), from there the stake holders provide them to the permit buyer. Pretty simple to understand if you ask me ....... Why do you keep arguing in circles? Why do you keep spewing out the same stuff? Cant admit its wrong? You know Nutter its ok to not agree with something and use a different method. Its called evolution and its not wrong. I will say it again............Why not announce the AGM online in a very open fashion? If someone wants the fianancials, provide id and their permit # and then email them to them........... Why is that so hard? Why do you have to keep going on about transparency, stakeholders, club memberships, permit holders, and such? Stremaline the process and we all win? Why would individual clubs have to hand out these items when it can be all done with a few keystrokes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 One more shot before I duck and run, do you guys even read the GO Snowmobiling mag that is sent to each permit buyer that checks the box to recieve it ? It's chock full of the information about OFSC. Or do you not check the box because you do not wish to receive this information. Also there has been a tab on the OFSC home page to recieve the OFSC e-newsletter for quite some time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Another one I have just recently heard about and been sledding for 6 years. Main Trail Mag. So much for trasnparency. Whu do I need an ID and password to find this? Why can't it just be available on the OFSC website if things are truly transparent? Why does it need to be hidden or jump through hoops to get it? Main trail is the OFSC news publication, copies are sent out to every club, district and association for distribution or review by the membership. If you are not recieving it I suggest you ask your club exec why this is. The club house section of the OFSC website is not for the general public, each club within the OFSC has a user ID and pass word. I find it hard to beleive you do not know about or have access to either of these when Yukon is your clubs VIA coordinator. So the OFSC can make broad sweeping descisions about supporting newly enacted drinking and driving laws but they cant let 02sled or others like him have an online copy of a trail mag which gives you information your entitled too? That my friend is screwed up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 As said the OFSC will not provide them to the general public as there is absolutly no reason what so ever to do so, the OFSC is legaly only able to give them to stake holders (the clubs), from there the stake holders provide them to the permit buyer. Pretty simple to understand if you ask me ....... Why do you keep arguing in circles? Why do you keep spewing out the same stuff? Cant admit its wrong? You know Nutter its ok to not agree with something and use a different method. Its called evolution and its not wrong. I will say it again............Why not announce the AGM online in a very open fashion? If someone wants the fianancials, provide id and their permit # and then email them to them........... Why is that so hard? Why do you have to keep going on about transparency, stakeholders, club memberships, permit holders, and such? Stremaline the process and we all win? Why would individual clubs have to hand out these items when it can be all done with a few keystrokes? What circles I'm telling you facts of how it is ??? Don't like it write up a proposal to change it and if the majority of OFSC stake holders agree and it can be legaly done it will be changed to your liking. I don't know what else to say ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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