OFSC AGM 2010 Who's Going from OC

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Here you go folks.

And here you have the reason the majority of the membership don't feel it's good idea to be more open with documentation...... Why don't you explain to everyone exactly what document that's from, and what the two pass words are exactly for UTS ? Or do you expect some volunteer from a club to come on here and explain it as many did on Freedom Sledder, so you can twist what they say and try and piss them off with your BS "I know best I'm UTS ?

This used to be a good site for club and volunteer info ... see ya's ......

Yes Nutter is right. The letter from the ofsc refers to a password system to info that honestly is not much use to most sledders. Probably means nothing in the end of things.

However, what it does prove is that they do wish to keep info from all of you club members. Now ask yourselves, if they dont want seemingly innocuous info to get into your hands, what else do they wish to kep secret and why? I posted this to show that I was right and to get people to get involved and help out this organisation.....

Why on earth would yo ube mad Nutter? Why so angry? Usually anger is a defense mechanism. I wonder why?

So permit buyers personal info (address, phone number, reg number ...ect) is "seemingly innocuous info" ?

I'm just angry you choose to post that without knowing the facts and just spewing what you wish on a public forum. Again what exactly is that doc you posted ?

Lots of other stuff in there besides members addresses. Let not blow things out of proportion.

[skidooer]

I'm just angry you choose to post that without knowing the facts and just spewing what you wish on a public forum.

To be fair, the facts keep changing.

• We have been told that every club member is equal and has an equal amount of say within the organization.
  
• We have been told that club members are not club members at all, and that we should get a job at McDonalds if we don't like their hamburgers or something. I didn't get it either.
  
• We have been told that all club members are club members, but not all club members are equal and that there is a membership hierarchy.
  

There is nothing wrong with any of the above points, if that is how the clubs want to run. However, you must understand that it is very confusing for the rest of us when the clubs keep changing their mind (at least publicly) about how they operate. So what if UTS posts something that is inaccurate? I see people doing that all the time on this forum. While I may laugh and sometimes try to correct them, I certainly am nowhere close to being angry about it.

[Reved]

This used to be a good site for club and volunteer info ... see ya's ......

Ha? This site is no longer a source of good info because... UTS disagrees with you on here and every other site on the internet but this site is no longer a good place.

PS most disagree with him. Just ask his wife.

[Canuck]

PS most disagree with him.

M.O.S.T. ; S.M.A.R.T. - heck, just about any club disagrees with him.

:poke:

.

[Reved]

PS most disagree with him.

M.O.S.T. ; S.M.A.R.T. - heck, just about any club disagrees with him.

:poke:

.

Here's a club some would like to use on him :poke:

[Nutter]

This used to be a good site for club and volunteer info ... see ya's ......

Ha? This site is no longer a source of good info because... UTS disagrees with you on here and every other site on the internet but this site is no longer a good place.

PS most disagree with him. Just ask his wife.

To disagree is one thing but to go on about conspiracies of Jack Booted Henchmen and a secret societies within the OFSC is another. It seems as of late every time the someone so much as even mentions the OFSC in a thread, that thread gets the same treatment from a few mods here. This never used to happen here .......

What happens when no one defends organized sledding on a website open to the public, IMO people go with a bad taste in their mouth about it ?

[UsedtoSkidoo]

This used to be a good site for club and volunteer info ... see ya's ......

Ha? This site is no longer a source of good info because... UTS disagrees with you on here and every other site on the internet but this site is no longer a good place.

PS most disagree with him. Just ask his wife.

To disagree is one thing but to go on about conspiracies of Jack Booted Henchmen and a secret societies within the OFSC is another. It seems as of late every time the someone so much as even mentions the OFSC in a thread, that thread gets the same treatment from a few mods here. This never used to happen here .......

What happens when no one defends organized sledding on a website open to the public, IMO people go with a bad taste in their mouth about it ?

So you represent organised sledding now? You should be applauding us as we all bring up valid points and arguments. Some will work some wont!

No one is slamming organized sledding Nutter. Im suggesting idea's and you dont agree with it. The second no one disagrees with each other is exactly when people should be worried.

Whats wrong with asking questions and bringing up new idea's? Answer that question without spinning this around!

[cehyoopers]

this site has become more about the problem then about answers,,,,,

[UsedtoSkidoo]

this site has become more about the problem then about answers,,,,,

I agree sort of, whenever someone come's up with an answer we are told thats not how its done and get a huge description on the process. Then when we discuss any issue we get told that we are bashing organised sledding?

However, without talking about the problems how do we come up with answers?

[skidooer]

What happens when no one defends organized sledding on a website open to the public, IMO people go with a bad taste in their mouth about it ?

What, exactly, are you trying to defend? If you recall, the shields went up as soon as STG made a great suggestion that the AGM details should be posted on the OFSC website so that anyone who is interested in attending can make the necessary arrangements to do so. The idea was presented logically and I did not see anyone else who felt it was a bad idea, including other "OFSC bigwigs".

What was it about STG's suggestion that you felt would leave a bad taste in someone's mouth? Is it because STG's extracurricular activities are not in line with the average snowmobiler? Are you concerned that the STG fan base growing from his idea would lead to an increase in sheep roaming the trails? Do you, perhaps, think it is unfair that STG's great idea will propel him directly to volunteer of the year instead of someone who has worked hard all year long? I honestly do not get it.

[Lep]

This is getting to be to much

[Reved]

This used to be a good site for club and volunteer info ... see ya's ......

Ha? This site is no longer a source of good info because... UTS disagrees with you on here and every other site on the internet but this site is no longer a good place.

PS most disagree with him. Just ask his wife.

...It seems as of late every time the someone so much as even mentions the OFSC in a thread, that thread gets the same treatment from a few mods here. This never used to happen here ...

It's a forum where people voices thier views. It does not matter if the are a member or a member with mod duties, all have an opinion they can voice.

[Wildbill]

Debate is a healthy part of democracy.

That being said

OC hosts club forums for FREE (thanks)

OC members buy permits and ride

At any given time the majority of OC'ers may dissagree with UTS or Nutter or anyone as they are an intelligent group with thier own thoughts.

Nutter your hostility brings on heavier replies. You stated that I was anti OFSC.I am not I do however want to see some change as do you.

UTS I expect that you are just about pissing yourself laughing at how wound up you have Nutter.

I say again debate and freedom of speech are the cornerstones of democracy

ON that not Welcome -2- Parry Sound.

[skidooer]

Well said, WildBill.

I would like to add that I, and others, just want to discuss ideas, not put them into practice. As LMV has always said, this forum is his basement. If we are talking about how the sport can be improved, it is simple banter over a beer, not a serious club meeting. If by the off chance a good idea comes along, then we can maybe think about bringing it up in front of a club. However, most of the talk exists solely to exercise our thinking on a topic that is close to our hearts, it is certainly not content that is ready for implementation by any stretch of the imagination. While we certainly appreciate alternative points of view, shooting down all ideas as invalid because the OFSC does it this way accomplishes nothing.

We do not pick on the OFSC specifically. Sometimes the talk is about the OFSC, sometimes it is about how the manufacturers can improve their snowmobiles, sometimes it is about how a change in riders attitude would improve the sport. I am not sure where the idea that people are anti-OFSC is coming from. People do not talk about things that they do not care about, the fact people are talking about the OFSC at all means that all of you hard working volunteers are doing something very right.

[RevRiders]

First time back on thr forum since the winter...this was a longgg exercise to read this post.

It's hard to think what the debate was even about!

Anyway..Sept 9th..we are 2 1/2 months from rideing!

[Pembroke Stratos 285XL]

But how? Every time I see someone, myself included, trying to do something about it, their ideas are quickly shot down in peer review. I will admit that my ideas are probably terrible and deserve to be shot down, but without guidance from a more experienced member my ideas are unlikely to improve. To be fair, I did have one kind individual offer to help move an idea forward, but unfortunately I did not hear back from him. I suspect my idea failed within his peer group.

That was me that brought your proposal forward to the VIA Committee, Skidooer, three years ago. My recollection at that time was that there were issues with the proposal but it did merit further discussion. I don't recall what your proposal was. The reason you didn't hear back from me was because I quit volunteering.

I used the analogy on another website about membership to the OFSC. The purchase of a trail permit does not make you a member of the OFSC no more than the purchase of a Big Mac, Quarter Pounder or even a Happy Meal makes you a member of McDonalds, sorry. If some of you knew the limitations of the Privacy Act and other barriers in dealing with the publics information you'd realize that what you propose just isn't possible, nobody is trying to shoot you or your ideas down. There are 231 incorporated clubs in Ontario that are voting members of the OFSC, each carrying two votes. If you'd like information about the OFSC go through your local club, if there is something you'd like to change get involved with your club, nevermind having a volunteer carry it for you. I don't understand what is so difficult about this?

From my perspective, it seems that the folks who complain the loudest about the apparent lack of transparency of the OFSC, and the lack of clickable instant links to financials and other corporate documentation are those that want to "volunteer" behind a computer monitor and keyboard. Just my opinion, for what its worth...as a former volunteer.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Buying a permit from a club does make you a club member and in fact once your a club member your a member of the ofsc.

Also, just because someone doesnt brush trails doesnt make them any less of a volunteer. There are many forms of volunteering!

[Pembroke Stratos 285XL]

Buying a permit from a club does make you a club member and in fact once your a club member your a member of the ofsc.

Incorrect...buying a permit from a club and/or paying a membership fee (depending on that specific clubs by-laws) makes you a voting member of that club (incorporation). It does not make you a voting member of the OFSC (different incorporation). You can (and should) add your voice to how your club votes at the OFSC AGM.

If your club, whom you are a voting member of, does not provide you with the information that you are looking for, that is not a transparency issue with the OFSC, it is a transparency issue with your club. Get involved and change it. Tired of the old boy's club? Get involved and change it. Don't expect to get a vote at the OFSC AGM from the comfort of your keyboard.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Buying a permit from a club does make you a club member and in fact once your a club member your a member of the ofsc.

Incorrect...buying a permit from a club and/or paying a membership fee (depending on that specific clubs by-laws) makes you a voting member of that club (incorporation). It does not make you a voting member of the OFSC (different incorporation). You can (and should) add your voice to how your club votes at the OFSC AGM.

If your club, whom you are a voting member of, does not provide you with the information that you are looking for, that is not a transparency issue with the OFSC, it is a transparency issue with your club. Get involved and change it. Tired of the old boy's club? Get involved and change it. Don't expect to get a vote at the OFSC AGM from the comfort of your keyboard.

I never said a "voting member" of the OFSC. I said a member. A member who has to make his/her voice known at the individual clubs AGM.

for the last time, I UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS!

Oh and I thought there wasn't any "Old boys" club?

[Pembroke Stratos 285XL]

Buying a permit from a club does make you a club member and in fact once your a club member your a member of the ofsc.

Incorrect...buying a permit from a club and/or paying a membership fee (depending on that specific clubs by-laws) makes you a voting member of that club (incorporation). It does not make you a voting member of the OFSC (different incorporation). You can (and should) add your voice to how your club votes at the OFSC AGM.

If your club, whom you are a voting member of, does not provide you with the information that you are looking for, that is not a transparency issue with the OFSC, it is a transparency issue with your club. Get involved and change it. Tired of the old boy's club? Get involved and change it. Don't expect to get a vote at the OFSC AGM from the comfort of your keyboard.

I never said a "voting member" of the OFSC. I said a member. A member who has to make his/her voice known at the individual clubs AGM.

for the last time, I UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS!

Oh and I thought there wasn't any "Old boys" club?

Good! Then let your voice be heard at your individual clubs AGM. A member of a not-for-profit incorporation has a vote, a non-member doesn't.

When did I say to you that there was no "old boys club"? There are indeed old boys clubs, within my association/district AND provincially, I'm sure there are others. You and others here just don't want to do anything about it.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Good! Then let your voice be heard at your individual clubs AGM. A member of a not-for-profit incorporation has a vote, a non-member doesn't.

When did I say to you that there was no "old boys club"? There are indeed old boys clubs, within my association/district AND provincially, I'm sure there are others. You and others here just don't want to do anything about it.

It wasnt meant for you but now that we are saying I dont want to do anything about it? Well guess what?

I volunteer, you dont! Your words not mine! So I guess Im doing more about it than you are. So who is lecturing who?

[Pembroke Stratos 285XL]

Good! Then let your voice be heard at your individual clubs AGM. A member of a not-for-profit incorporation has a vote, a non-member doesn't.

When did I say to you that there was no "old boys club"? There are indeed old boys clubs, within my association/district AND provincially, I'm sure there are others. You and others here just don't want to do anything about it.

It wasnt meant for you but now that we are saying I dont want to do anything about it? Well guess what?

I volunteer, you dont! Your words not mine! So I guess Im doing more about it than you are. So who is lecturing who?

Lecturing? In Skidooer's words above, I thought this "is simple banter over a beer, not a serious club meeting"...geezus, who's french cuts are in a twist now?

My recollection from the discussion over on another website was that you don't own a snowmobile or purchase a trail permit, was this correct? I also recall, although my memory has failed me before, is that Skidooer does not purchase a trail permit either, am I correct?

Not criticising guys, just wondering...

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Lecturing? In Skidooer's words above, I thought this "is simple banter over a beer, not a serious club meeting"...geezus, who's french cuts are in a twist now?

My recollection from the discussion over on another website was that you don't own a snowmobile or purchase a trail permit, was this correct? I also recall, although my memory has failed me before, is that Skidooer does not purchase a trail permit either, am I correct?

Not criticising guys, just wondering...

Im strictly a Thong Guy if you must know!

No sled, no permit, still volunteer, am club member still.

As for Skidooer, he kinda marches to his own beat, if you know what I mean!

[skidooer]

That was me that brought your proposal forward to the VIA Committee, Skidooer, three years ago. My recollection at that time was that there were issues with the proposal but it did merit further discussion. I don't recall what your proposal was. The reason you didn't hear back from me was because I quit volunteering.

Cool. Thanks for doing so!

[Pembroke Stratos 285XL]

Im strictly a Thong Guy if you must know!

No sled, no permit, still volunteer, am club member still.

As for Skidooer, he kinda marches to his own beat, if you know what I mean!

Lol, awesome on the thong! And thanks for continuing to volunteer with your club!