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Halfway Haven closing


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4 hours ago, Hoosier said:

I haven't been up to the albiti canyon, but isn't that something similar up there?

Canyon trail in my opinion only exists to fill rooms in town and sell meals and gas too. That’s why local buisness like this loop and it is usually first ride open as well. Hh actually goes so where, so different atmosphere meeting sledders coming in from different directions no doubt. 
 

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11 hours ago, Ox said:

But if the bridge aint open to ALL Yanks this winter, I sure wouldn't bother opening it. 

 

Pretty sure the rules won't change for Americans travelling to Canada  for this winter at least.

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I agree, and am amazed when SDB told me that he was yonder, even with his portfolio of documents.

 

But I still say that if the border aint open to all, I wouldn't open it up.

It costs WAY too much to keep that gen set running 24/7 in the winter.

 

Costs are MUCH lower in the summer when they can just cycle the gen once a day to keep the fridges and such cold, on days that no-one else is there.

 

They shouldn't have opened last year!

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On 8/30/2021 at 12:04 PM, Ox said:

I agree, and am amazed when SDB told me that he was yonder, even with his portfolio of documents.

 

But I still say that if the border aint open to all, I wouldn't open it up.

It costs WAY too much to keep that gen set running 24/7 in the winter.

 

Costs are MUCH lower in the summer when they can just cycle the gen once a day to keep the fridges and such cold, on days that no-one else is there.

 

They shouldn't have opened last year!

Hindsight being 20/20 they should not have opened last season.   The closed border and the lack of snow in that area were a recipe for disaster.   I wanted to do "the loop" last season and there was no snow in Dub to complete the trip.    

 

I hate to say it, but I bet its closed for good.   This will really hurt the local communities economy in the winter unless they can figure out a way to get gas.   The OFSC will close the trail if there is no gas.   Too much liability if someone gets stuck out there and dies.    

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1 hour ago, Wildman said:

does anyone know if Half way is owned property or a crown land lease?

 In the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources Crown Land Atlas it shows the Jeep Lake area where 1/2 way is located as being "Enhanced Management area" so I'm thinking it would be a crown land lease.

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Really debating about going full Quebec this coming season. 🤔...Imo, Dub never opened the connection to keep riders out, period.  Yes, it was a different Health Region,  but you could ride every where else?, yes they were low on snow, but come on.  I crossed multiple Health Regions Daily last season. Not much proof of the much dreaded sledder Covid spreading events either. The club needs to decide if they are gonna build a new trail or not.  As for Halfway Haven, we'll with the border closed and no connection north, what do you expect. Big decisions this coming season.  

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1 hour ago, Turbo Doo said:

Really debating about going full Quebec this coming season. 🤔...Imo, Dub never opened the connection to keep riders out, period.  Yes, it was a different Health Region,  but you could ride every where else?, yes they were low on snow, but come on.  I crossed multiple Health Regions Daily last season. Not much proof of the much dreaded sledder Covid spreading events either. The club needs to decide if they are gonna build a new trail or not.  As for Halfway Haven, we'll with the border closed and no connection north, what do you expect. Big decisions this coming season.  

Well said TD, I’m with you as I also think Dub had a reason more than just low snow to keep the trails closed. 

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21 minutes ago, WinderFab said:

Well said TD, I’m with you as I also think Dub had a reason more than just low snow to keep the trails closed. 

And that's fine,  but as Ski has said, they have known about the need for a dedicated trail north, and unfortunately for them, the procrastination has caught up. The Club, the OFSC and business's need to all be part of the solution,  if that's what is even wanted 

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4 hours ago, Turbo Doo said:

Really debating about going full Quebec this coming season. 🤔...Imo, Dub never opened the connection to keep riders out, period.  Yes, it was a different Health Region,  but you could ride every where else?, yes they were low on snow, but come on.  I crossed multiple Health Regions Daily last season. Not much proof of the much dreaded sledder Covid spreading events either. The club needs to decide if they are gonna build a new trail or not.  As for Halfway Haven, we'll with the border closed and no connection north, what do you expect. Big decisions this coming season.  

So no northern corridor this winter?  

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27 minutes ago, gobills said:

So no northern corridor this winter?  

We shall see. There's a few things we want to Doo in Quebec this season for a few reasons, which may take up some time,  so the debate is on. 

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I highly doubt that there was $ to build a new trail  - as long as there was another option. You know that's how these things work.

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3 hours ago, signfan said:

Price of lumber has dropped significantly.  Maybe they'll get lucky and it all won't be plowed.

thinking like this is what got us to this position.

 

Take Hornepayne for example... they have taken the time to build a trail next to the plowed roads, that give them issues. on the years the road is not being used, they still groom and use the trail, instead of the road. we as sledders can decide if we would rather run the road or the trail at that point. they keep the trail trimmed, brushed and signed and used for those years when the loggers or whoever use the road. this gives them a permanent trail, a known entity for issues, brushing. 

 

Dub on the other hand have made some twinned trails but, only use them, or a portion of them, and trim them on years when the road is in use, and they "need" the twinned section(s). sometimes it is a year, sometimes it is several years, and the bush swallows the trail, then the work, planning, scrambling to replace it, and complaining, starts all over. there needs to be a permanent solution.

 

I understand it is easier to groom, trim, sign  a road but, think about taking the time to make a trail that cannot be easily disrupted by land use of loggers, miners, plowed etc... and knowing you will always have a trail. the work upfront will be high but, the security for years to come will be higher. 

 

think about all the man hours, money, time spent, only to have some other user group lay claim to the road, plow, dozer it all up, and ruin the trail, work, and connectivity to other communities, regions for economic impact on both ends. it happens almost every year there.

 

doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result, is the definition of insanity. Ski

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Yeah, well 15 yrs ago was the time to have done that. There hasn't been enough interest since The Crash to justify $pending loonies on anything like that since.

 

Hornepayne's trail has been there since the 90's, back when the sport had much promise of bringing $. I believe that Brian was likely the president of the club at that time, and also the big wig at the Town Centre (name?). I am guessing that he pushed for and found financing for that extra line, as I don't know who else in Hornepayne would have benefitted from that, other than the gas station sell a few more gallons of gas? But all other $ would have been spent within the confines of the Town Centre. 

 

Back at that time it would have been Ray and Pat that would have seen the bulk of any throughput in Dub, and they had good options and the river wasn't crossed. But the economy today is a whole different deal. [As I understand it] The locals not only don't need the tourist $ right now, but they may not even want it - if they are already full to the max, and needing to add housing. 

 

Sledding my be a big concern for us here, but the Superior Snow Challenge Loop (?) has bigger fish to fry right now, and they need to make hay. 

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1 hour ago, skidooboy said:

thinking like this is what got us to this position.

 

Take Hornepayne for example... they have taken the time to build a trail next to the plowed roads, that give them issues. on the years the road is not being used, they still groom and use the trail, instead of the road. we as sledders can decide if we would rather run the road or the trail at that point. they keep the trail trimmed, brushed and signed and used for those years when the loggers or whoever use the road. this gives them a permanent trail, a known entity for issues, brushing. 

 

Dub on the other hand have made some twinned trails but, only use them, or a portion of them, and trim them on years when the road is in use, and they "need" the twinned section(s). sometimes it is a year, sometimes it is several years, and the bush swallows the trail, then the work, planning, scrambling to replace it, and complaining, starts all over. there needs to be a permanent solution.

 

I understand it is easier to groom, trim, sign  a road but, think about taking the time to make a trail that cannot be easily disrupted by land use of loggers, miners, plowed etc... and knowing you will always have a trail. the work upfront will be high but, the security for years to come will be higher. 

 

think about all the man hours, money, time spent, only to have some other user group lay claim to the road, plow, dozer it all up, and ruin the trail, work, and connectivity to other communities, regions for economic impact on both ends. it happens almost every year there.

 

doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result, is the definition of insanity. Ski

Hornepayne did it,  Dub should be able to do it....But, maybe the want is gone...

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1 hour ago, Ox said:

Yeah, well 15 yrs ago was the time to have done that. There hasn't been enough interest since The Crash to justify $pending loonies on anything like that since.

 

Hornepayne's trail has been there since the 90's, back when the sport had much promise of bringing $. I believe that Brian was likely the president of the club at that time, and also the big wig at the Town Centre (name?). I am guessing that he pushed for and found financing for that extra line, as I don't know who else in Hornepayne would have benefitted from that, other than the gas station sell a few more gallons of gas? But all other $ would have been spent within the confines of the Town Centre. 

 

Back at that time it would have been Ray and Pat that would have seen the bulk of any throughput in Dub, and they had good options and the river wasn't crossed. But the economy today is a whole different deal. [As I understand it] The locals not only don't need the tourist $ right now, but they may not even want it - if they are already full to the max, and needing to add housing. 

 

Sledding my be a big concern for us here, but the Superior Snow Challenge Loop (?) has bigger fish to fry right now, and they need to make hay. 

that is what I was saying Ox, Hornepayne had the foresight to see the need for a permanent trail and get off the roads. Dub did the opposite, and struggle every year, for the touring rider.

 

there is lots of extra money in dub for the residents but, the remainder are just are workers that come in from other regions and provinces in some case, and go home when they get their check (7 on 7 off, or 14 on 10 off, schedules). most locals use the trail for camp access, fishing, and the odd trip to hawk, wawa, or ernie's for a meal/day trip. so, when conditions exist, they will just ride the roads like they have done for years, and not worry about the trail. Ski

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59 minutes ago, Turbo Doo said:

Hornepayne did it,  Dub should be able to do it....But, maybe the want is gone...

the want is there for a few but, not enough to convince the masses, to get it done. hoping the mine's could help the township, club, residents. Maybe, they could see the benefit of their staff recreating in the area, and planting roots.  I dunno.

 

I know a way to get to hornepaynes side with only 17 km of actual existing trail but, I know hornepayne would have no reason to groom their end, if Dub doesnt have a viable option and a realistic traffic to them. Ski 

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1 hour ago, skidooboy said:

the want is there for a few but, not enough to convince the masses, to get it done. 

Bingo.....

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11 hours ago, skidooboy said:

thinking like this is what got us to this position.

 

Take Hornepayne for example... they have taken the time to build a trail next to the plowed roads, that give them issues. on the years the road is not being used, they still groom and use the trail, instead of the road. we as sledders can decide if we would rather run the road or the trail at that point. they keep the trail trimmed, brushed and signed and used for those years when the loggers or whoever use the road. this gives them a permanent trail, a known entity for issues, brushing. 

 

Dub on the other hand have made some twinned trails but, only use them, or a portion of them, and trim them on years when the road is in use, and they "need" the twinned section(s). sometimes it is a year, sometimes it is several years, and the bush swallows the trail, then the work, planning, scrambling to replace it, and complaining, starts all over. there needs to be a permanent solution.

 

I understand it is easier to groom, trim, sign  a road but, think about taking the time to make a trail that cannot be easily disrupted by land use of loggers, miners, plowed etc... and knowing you will always have a trail. the work upfront will be high but, the security for years to come will be higher. 

 

think about all the man hours, money, time spent, only to have some other user group lay claim to the road, plow, dozer it all up, and ruin the trail, work, and connectivity to other communities, regions for economic impact on both ends. it happens almost every year there.

 

doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result, is the definition of insanity. Ski

Definitely a reasonable argument.  The V'al Dor club has the exact same issue on 386 running south of town.  Flip side is quality of trail you get on years when that road isn't plowed.  12' wide side trail that follows the contours of the ground vs a 20' wide road that is built up.  Big difference in trail quality.  If the club had the ability to build proper road that's great.  50 plus miles of road construction is not a cheap endeavor to undertake though.  This one project could eat up the OFSC's entire capital grant program and then some for a whole year.  Is that in the best interest of the province as a whole?  I hope the locals figure it out.  This area is definitely on the bucket list.  But as others stated there is other options for touring riders.  Hopefully the reluctance of these small towns to see tourists due to covid disappears this winter.  My back still hurts from the moguls through Smooth Rock Falls from last winter.

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36 minutes ago, signfan said:

Definitely a reasonable argument.  The V'al Dor club has the exact same issue on 386 running south of town.  Flip side is quality of trail you get on years when that road isn't plowed.  12' wide side trail that follows the contours of the ground vs a 20' wide road that is built up.  Big difference in trail quality.  If the club had the ability to build proper road that's great.  50 plus miles of road construction is not a cheap endeavor to undertake though.  This one project could eat up the OFSC's entire capital grant program and then some for a whole year.  Is that in the best interest of the province as a whole?  I hope the locals figure it out.  This area is definitely on the bucket list.  But as others stated there is other options for touring riders.  Hopefully the reluctance of these small towns to see tourists due to covid disappears this winter.  My back still hurts from the moguls through Smooth Rock Falls from last winter.

X2....well said 

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  • 1 month later...

I was told by a local up there that it will be re-opening.    I cant get into any more details but the guy who told me will know the truth.  

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