2013 OFSC AGM

[Yukon]

unfortunatly Suzane is no longer our district admin, this could very well be the reason we haven't seen it.

That's to bad. When was the change?

[Wildman]

That's to bad. When was the change?

couple weeks ago, and yes, there is nothing good about it, as far as I am concerned Suzane did an excellent job, we always got the answers to our questions and the information seemed to flow flawlessly.

[Wildman]

by the way I should note that we have now recieved the information package on the FFC.

[sledjunk]

For those who have access, it is on the OFSC resources site for clubs to download.

[bbakernbay]

And why weren't we told that by the OFSC and/or District?

 

Jeeeezzz.

[Yukon]

And why weren't we told that by the OFSC and/or District?

 

Jeeeezzz.

Because the info wasn't passed to you from your district.... 

[bbakernbay]

Well we had our FFC presentation tonight by President Brenda & General Manager Paul.

 

About 35 in attendance, 2.5 hours or thereabouts.

 

Very professional presentation by both Paul & Brenda, very thorough and relatively easy to understand the recommendations.

 

Tremendous amount of work has gone into the Committee's Report.

 

Major assumption is based upon the various user surveys and historical data indicating that $180 permit cost is a major threshold for many so that is why they are recommending $180 Early, Early Bird purchased on or before November 1st plus $7.50 fee to cover various costs.  Purchaser must select the Club/Association that they want to support.

 

They are estimating an additional 15% increase in total Trail Permits sold as a result.

 

Left the Districts with the decision making on how to apportion balance of revenue from Permit after Club gets first 30% and OFSC gets a share for Groomers, Insurance and Admin.

 

No further comments at this time, I've had enough for this evening.

[bbakernbay]

A few more thoughts on Framework for Change

 

The whole process has been based upon the fact that the Status Quo is failing with seriously declining sales of Trail Permits and costs increasing.

 

I am certainly in agreement with that as the total permits sold in 2002 was 112,000 and only 70,000 in 2012. 

 

The 2009 price increase came at a time when sales were actually picking up in the previous year but took a nosedive after $180 price threshold was exceeded.

 

Their extensive surveys over several years indicate that price point is critical, like it or not.

 

There are 145,000 sleds in Ontario that are being insured, twice that of the permits sold by OFSC.

 

Most of us are agreed that a person that purchases a permit from any particular club does not necessarily ride exclusively on that club's trails and in many cases they don't ride there very much but purchased there because of convenience.

 

Most people do buy where they ride but undoubtedly a large percentage do travel on neighbouring club trails, after all it is a province wide permit.

 

IMHO, just because a club has a high population base, or has a high profile business which generates lots of sales, or a club that spends $$ on advertising or otherwise promotes itself, doesn't mean that they should have exclusive use of the funds generated from those permits.

 

Many clubs have too small a population base, limited places to sell their permits and in many cases can't afford advertising or even a website to communicate with prospective purchasers.

 

In my mind, the user should rightfully expect that the money he/she pays for a permit is used wisely and fairly throughout the system no matter where he/she decides to ride, because of weather & snow conditions, etc.

 

It does seem clear that some clubs have generated considerable funds in reserve that are not being used for grooming and trail maintenance.

 

GM Paul indicated that the reserves have dropped from $14,000,000 to $8,500,000 and that is both good and bad news.

 

Our North Bay Snowmobile Club can't be successful unless our neighbouring clubs are also successful. 

 

The Mattawa and Area Snowmobile Club is a perfect example of that situation, small population base, very low permit sales but lots of TOP A and A112A trail to maintain on the RAP Trail.  Very heavy through traffic by users that bought their T.P.'s elsewhere.

 

The revised Framework for Change has many new and innovative ideas.

 

Give those people that will commit very early, before November 2nd, a chance to buy a TP at $180 plus $7.50 for credit card & fulfillment fees and they must buy online.

 

The Selling Clubs get 30% of these sale revenue immediately after November 2nd so money is available for startup sooner than the former December 2nd deadline.

 

All 7 and 3 day passes will be sold online only which cuts out work by the clubs and makes the buyer have actual start and end dates on the permit he or she prints at home.  No more punch the hole yourself.

 

If the weather was like this past March & April, you can buy your TP after March 10th, 2014 and you will receive a 2015 Seasonal Permit at no additional charge.  Good idea.

 

For a $210 seasonal Permit, 6%goes to Groomer Fund, 10% to OFSC programs and 13% to Insurance (both premium and OFSC Self Insurance fund)  This is referred to as the Base Cost totaling 29%.

 

The clubs get 4% for fulfillment costs which is long overdue to cover credit card fees, postage, etc.

 

The remaining 37% is called the Equalization fund that is administered by the Districts.

 

The Clubs in each District will establish a criteria for disbursement of the funds.

 

The Matrix is gone to be replaced by Grooming Hours and Trail Length in 3 categories.

 

Some of these funds get moved outside of a District, presumably to the far northern Districts.

 

The Revenue forecasts for FFC are based on approximately a 15% increase in sales brought on by the survey info that more people will buy TP's if the price was at $180.

 

Whether that translates into real sales remains to be seen, no one can really know as snow and other factors play a huge role.

 

The FFC indicates that Districts and Clubs must watch their spending very carefully over this next year.

 

The coming year is rightfully called a Transition Year with an evaluation to follow and further recommendations implemented as may be appropriate.

 

Love to hear other views as the FFC gets wider distribution.

 

Should be an interesting AGM, sorry I'm not going, our Club is trying to cut costs too,

 

Brian - NBSC

[sledjunk]

Brian

 

Thanks for your insight and we will miss you at the AGM.

 

In my first reading of the FFC, it was unclear (at least to me) whether the individual clubs would continue to be PSE's, or whether the responsibility was to rest with the district?  Was this confirmed or clarified at your meeting?

 

This certainly is different from the mandatory planks from the FFC platform that was approved last year.

[Wildman]

I'm not gonna say that they are bad ideas. The hurdle, if we use simple math, to get the same $ as last year, we need to sell 11,666 more permits, to do better we need more. I would like to hear a debate that would convince me that there are 11,666 sleds that are usable sitting around, that people are going to put a permit on because the early price is $180.  I would think that the 42,000 that we have lost since 2002, a good percentage are probably not in the sport anymore. I doubt they are going to spend the cash to get back in the sport because the permit is $180. If this goes through and backfires, we are in duck soup, but with that being said, we need to try something.

 

    The only thing I can come up with that makes sence in my simple mind is; look at the districts that have low permit sales, they have very few club trails and maintain mostly top trails. Give them a regional permit for 75 -120, and see if that brings their locals back. I know allot of people will cry it's not fair, but it just may help these other areas be more sustainable.

[bbakernbay]

Clubs can still remain as individual PSE's (Permit Selling Entities) but they must fall within the District for the distribution of the funds beyond their first 30%.

 

They will likely have to enter into some Agreement amongst the rest of the clubs in the District and set criteria as to how those funds will be distributed amongst them all.

 

It doesn't impact us in District 11 but it will with MSR and clubs like hill & Gully which are a separate PSE.

[sledjunk]

Thanks for the clarification.

[sledjunk]

    The only thing I can come up with that makes sence in my simple mind is; look at the districts that have low permit sales, they have very few club trails and maintain mostly top trails. Give them a regional permit for 75 -120, and see if that brings their locals back. I know allot of people will cry it's not fair, but it just may help these other areas be more sustainable.

 

I think that to bring the locals back in those areas, some local loops need to open up as well.  This will also help the tourism in those areas.

 

A small example of this is with the late season OC ride from last year.  The initial intent was to hold it based out of Wawa to provide some much needed revenue in an area that sorely needed it.  However, with the closure of all but the TOP trails, it was not feasible to trailer that far to only be able to ride in and out of town on the same trail.  Unless we wore Slomo's eyepatch, we would be looking at the same trees.

 

I do not know if the FFC will work, but I agree that we have to try something.

 

The report on the Try Our Trails indicates that almost 15000 permits were printed for that weekend.  90% of those sleds were 5+ years old, and 40% would be eligible for a classic permit.

 

48% of these people had not purchased a permit in the last 8 seasons and 37.5% did not have a current permit but had purchased on in the last 8 seasons.

 

I am hopeful that a fair number of these sleds may get Full or Classic permits this winter.

 

Fingers crossed!

[Domino]

Sounds like a meeting of the "the good old boys club" you're invited but we'll do as we wish.  I understand I'm an outsider without an opinion that counts.  Obviously, I don't want to waste my time or money. but if there is any value in having my input, I'll attend.

 

I'm not sure how you would be considered and outsider....

 

You are certainly a permit buyer, a volunteer and a supporter.  You should be as welcome as anyone!

[Viperules700]

Need to change the free weekend badly. Why buy a permit, when you can ride all week mon to Thursday, since there is almost no enforcement then. The locals here have figured that out. I almost see as much traffic during the middle of the week day as I do on a weekend. The big difference is very few of these sleds have permits. Most of the people are cash crop and diary farmers. Ride the trails for a few hours mom to Thursday and not bother buying a permit. Going to take allot more enforcement to get the attitudes to change. Most of these people have ofsc trails on thier properties as well. allot of them think they should be given a few permits for free, for use of the land. 180 bucks before nov 2nd won't bring any of these riders on board.

[bbakernbay]

Try Our Trails is the wrong weekend for several reasons.

 

Why do it Family Day Weekend when the paying customers are out in droves and the trails are usually not the best.

 

Nnot a good way to impress a new user or those that paid.

 

Make it same weekend as Quebec.

 

Too many people are figuring out that they can get almost 10 days of free riding by buying a 3 day permit in either ON or Quebec and run the two together.

[sledjunk]

Need to change the free weekend badly. Why buy a permit, when you can ride all week mon to Thursday, since there is almost no enforcement then. The locals here have figured that out. I almost see as much traffic during the middle of the week day as I do on a weekend. The big difference is very few of these sleds have permits. Most of the people are cash crop and diary farmers. Ride the trails for a few hours mom to Thursday and not bother buying a permit. Going to take allot more enforcement to get the attitudes to change. Most of these people have ofsc trails on thier properties as well. allot of them think they should be given a few permits for free, for use of the land. 180 bucks before nov 2nd won't bring any of these riders on board.

How will changing the free weekend correct the freeloaders that you see during the week???

 

What might help is if you volunteer to be a trail patrol or STOP officer for your club.

[bbakernbay]

THe FFC includes a revision whereby Trail Patrollers can be upgraded to Special constables for the soile purpose of enforcing Trail Permit infractions.

 

Supposed to be up and running this winter.

[sledjunk]

Try Our Trails is the wrong weekend for several reasons.

 

Why do it Family Day Weekend when the paying customers are out in droves and the trails are usually not the best.

 

Nnot a good way to impress a new user or those that paid.

 

Make it same weekend as Quebec.

 

Too many people are figuring out that they can get almost 10 days of free riding by buying a 3 day permit in either ON or Quebec and run the two together.

Not sure that I agree.  I think the Family Day Weekend is the best time for the free weekend from the potential snowmobilers perspective.

 

This 'new' long weekend was implemented (IMO) to promote family winter events.  For a non sledding family, a regular weekend might be too short to commit the time to try this.  The extra day allows the weekend to start Saturday, get to a location and arrange rental and equipment, a full day Sunday to experience the trails, and a leisurely wind down on Monday.

 

While we regular sledders are used to rushing up on Friday and driving back on Sunday, this is not the best way to get a newcomer to try this on their own.  It may be inconvenient for us but the idea is to increase our numbers by allowing people to 'sample our wares'.  It needs to have an 'event' like Family Day to wrap it in so that it is memorable.

 

And if they can make it a week long event by buying a three day permit, even better!  The more the fish nibbles on the bait, the more chance he will get hooked!  Isn't that the point?

 

Just my opinion.

[sledjunk]

THe FFC includes a revision whereby Trail Patrollers can be upgraded to Special constables for the soile purpose of enforcing Trail Permit infractions.

 

Supposed to be up and running this winter.

Training is already in place and available online.  Criminal Record check and First Aid Certificate is required.

 

 

BTW, speaking of online, the rest of the AGM material is on the resources site for club access.

[Viperules700]

How will changing the free weekend correct the freeloaders that you see during the week???

What might help is if you volunteer to be a trail

patrol or STOP officer for your club.

The bottom line is they don't want to ride weekends anyway's, but since there is one 3 day weekend that they can, they will ride for free that weekend. I still believe they should charge a processing fee of say 40 bucks for the free

weekend permits. At 15,000 permits that is

600,000 bonus bucks. That would cover some of

the revenue loss on the early nov permits. Why

not try it, what does the federation have to

loose??

[lucrestyle]

The bottom line is they don't want to ride weekends anyway's, but since there is one 3 day weekend that they can, they will ride for free that weekend. I still believe they should charge a processing fee of say 40 bucks for the free weekend permits. At 15,000 permits that is 600,000 bonus bucks. That would cover some of the revenue loss on the early nov permits. Why not try it, what does the federation have to loose??

Great idea! $40 may be too high.. $20 would be more realistic and still generate 300k

Brian great post well captured

[Greggie]

It seems that how they bring the ffc, it will bring money for everyone but there are also a lot of cases how the clubs can loose money. Status quo, you know how much money you get for every sold permit, for sure more then the 30%. What is better one bird in the hand then 10 in the sky?

Thanks,

Greg

[skidooboy]

i love how they agree the 180 permit price was the breaking point, then call the new permit early early bird, and then charge 187.50, might as well call it 190.00. they know the breaking point is 180... MAKE IT ONE 180. is it going to bring more riders in? nope, die hards will buy early and clubs and ofsc will lose even more. NOT A GOOD PLAN. Ski

[2bsledding]

i love how they agree the 180 permit price was the breaking point, then call the new permit early early bird, and then charge 187.50, might as well call it 190.00. they know the breaking point is 180... MAKE IT ONE 180. is it going to bring more riders in? nope, die hards will buy early and clubs and ofsc will lose even more. NOT A GOOD PLAN. Ski

To Back that up look at the graph on page 5 of FFC document. when the permit price breached the $180 to $200 mark. Seasonal permit sales dropped drastically. It wasn't so much that people couldn't afford the increase. It was more where people had drawn the line. Over $200 and I'm not buying anymore.