New Cats

[wrightonalan]

i have 2 buddies that are cat guys ,would never consider a different brand .they just always seem behind the game to me .i hope new sled does well ,hate to see another brand bite the dust.

[stoney]

2 hours ago, wrightonalan said:

i have 2 buddies that are cat guys ,would never consider a different brand .they just always seem behind the game to me .i hope new sled does well ,hate to see another brand bite the dust.

I always had cats up until 2022 and had no issues really.

I wanted to buy a 4-stroke and was concerned that I would be disappointed with a Cat purchase seeing where things were at so bought a Doo, no regrets, but like you, I also want to see Cat succeed and continue to be around. 

 

With the new chassis and that really nice gauge they have now, that might end up being the best in the industry, things look good, but we will see how things perform on the snow.

 

I did some looking around and it seems the Cat 800 they had was pumping out between 155 and 160 HP, so if you take 11% of that as advertised, that puts the new 858 at 170'ish HP, with a lighter sled to boot - that as well might be a real competitor for the turbo 2-strokes from DOO & POO, without the added components, but that will not help them in the mountain segment.

 

Things are looking good, just late for sure, but that might not matter if things are as advertised!

[Spiderman]

Hope they can run on ethanol drenched fuel

 

 

[stoney]

wrong thread.....lol

[UsedtoSkidoo]

17 hours ago, stoney said:

I always had cats up until 2022 and had no issues really.

I wanted to buy a 4-stroke and was concerned that I would be disappointed with a Cat purchase seeing where things were at so bought a Doo, no regrets, but like you, I also want to see Cat succeed and continue to be around. 

 

With the new chassis and that really nice gauge they have now, that might end up being the best in the industry, things look good, but we will see how things perform on the snow.

 

I did some looking around and it seems the Cat 800 they had was pumping out between 155 and 160 HP, so if you take 11% of that as advertised, that puts the new 858 at 170'ish HP, with a lighter sled to boot - that as well might be a real competitor for the turbo 2-strokes from DOO & POO, without the added components, but that will not help them in the mountain segment.

 

Things are looking good, just late for sure, but that might not matter if things are as advertised!

We need more competition so Im glad cat has dug out the R&D and made a new 2 stroke. 

 

But cats suck.

[signfan]

The fact that they partnered with Garmin on the gauge is a good thing.  Hopefully that pushes all of the OEM's to improve what they offer.  I wonder if you will be able to load maps like you can on a garmin gps.

[stoney]

46 minutes ago, signfan said:

The fact that they partnered with Garmin on the gauge is a good thing.  Hopefully that pushes all of the OEM's to improve what they offer.  I wonder if you will be able to load maps like you can on a garmin gps.

I watched a YouTube video of the release and I’m sure something along those lines were mentioned , but it was directed more towards Canadian and US official snowmobile trail maps. 

[ontariof7]

1 hour ago, UsedtoSkidoo said:

We need more competition so Im glad cat has dug out the R&D and made a new 2 stroke. 

 

But cats suck.

Passive, aggressive enough? Nah, I know you have more in you.

[stoney]

3 hours ago, UsedtoSkidoo said:

We need more competition so Im glad cat has dug out the R&D and made a new 2 stroke. 

 

But cats suck.

 

If the 4-stroke is also going in the new chassis along with the 2-strokes as mentioned, and that chassis is as light, well balanced and as good as suggested, things might get a whole lot more interesting.

Lacking in the accessory department though.

I am looking forward to seeing and hearing about the new Cat's on the snow this winter with the 600 and next winter with the 858 & potentially the 4-stroke. 

And they all suck at times - only as good as their worst day on the trails!

But our winters have definitely sucked......

[UsedtoSkidoo]

2 hours ago, ontariof7 said:

Passive, aggressive enough? Nah, I know you have more in you.

I am glad we have more competition.

 

Cant buy a cat though. Just cant!

[Baylaker]

5 hours ago, signfan said:

The fact that they partnered with Garmin on the gauge is a good thing.  Hopefully that pushes all of the OEM's to improve what they offer.  I wonder if you will be able to load maps like you can on a garmin gps.

It’s Garmin, they’re the best. The gauge looks great! I’d be very surprised if they didn’t offer an option to upload maps.

 

 

[Canuck]

2 hours ago, UsedtoSkidoo said:

I am glad we have more competition.

 

Cant buy a cat though. Just cant!

I get it. Can't buy a Skidoo myself

[UsedtoSkidoo]

17 hours ago, Canuck said:

I get it. Can't buy a Skidoo myself

Now your just being vindictive.......................lol

[signfan]

On 9/12/2023 at 11:37 AM, stoney said:

 

If the 4-stroke is also going in the new chassis along with the 2-strokes as mentioned, and that chassis is as light, well balanced and as good as suggested, things might get a whole lot more interesting.

Lacking in the accessory department though.

I am looking forward to seeing and hearing about the new Cat's on the snow this winter with the 600 and next winter with the 858 & potentially the 4-stroke. 

And they all suck at times - only as good as their worst day on the trails!

But our winters have definitely sucked......

If they fit it out with a 4 stroke they might be caught up to BRP.  What's coming from BRP next year though?  

[stoney]

6 minutes ago, signfan said:

If they fit it out with a 4 stroke they might be caught up to BRP.  What's coming from BRP next year though?  

I would think they have too and likely already engineered when they designed the new chassis, I cannot see how Cat did not know Yami was exiting the market, decision like that was not made on a whim.

As for what is coming by others, I guess one of the great side affects of having a market with multiple manufactures, ideally all that are healthy - what is next......

I personally do not really care, but seeing Cat appear to be stepping up, is good for the overall sport.

 

[Spiderman]

2 hours ago, stoney said:

I would think they have too and likely already engineered when they designed the new chassis, I cannot see how Cat did not know Yami was exiting the market, decision like that was not made on a whim.

As for what is coming by others, I guess one of the great side affects of having a market with multiple manufactures, ideally all that are healthy - what is next......

I personally do not really care, but seeing Cat appear to be stepping up, is good for the overall sport.

 

Agreed!

 

 

[Ox]

2 hours ago, stoney said:

I would think they have too and likely already engineered when they designed the new chassis, I cannot see how Cat did not know Yami was exiting the market, decision like that was not made on a whim.

As for what is coming by others, I guess one of the great side affects of having a market with multiple manufactures, ideally all that are healthy - what is next......

I personally do not really care, but seeing Cat appear to be stepping up, is good for the overall sport.

 

 

I would like to think that Cat knew that Yammi was on the way out when they got into bed together.

.. everyone else did ...

[stoney]

1 hour ago, Ox said:

 

I would like to think that Cat knew that Yammi was on the way out when they got into bed together.

.. everyone else did ...

LOL - ya, that was the mindset no doubt, but as mentioned before, it also gave Yammi a life line, however when was the big question answered as to when the end would happen, that was likely not solidified until maybe 2 to 3 years ago....

[stoney]

 

[Spiderman]

54 minutes ago, stoney said:

LOL - ya, that was the mindset no doubt, but as mentioned before, it also gave Yammi a life line, however when was the big question answered as to when the end would happen, that was likely not solidified until maybe 2 to 3 years ago....

Are we sure it wasn’t Yammi giving Cat a lifeline? yammi knowing full well they were exiting.

 

 

[stoney]

17 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

Are we sure it wasn’t Yammi giving Cat a lifeline? yammi knowing full well they were exiting.

 

 

I am sure some might think that, but IMO, I do not think so.

 

Cat had the chassis - Yamaha did not

Cat had the 2-stroke offerings - Yamaha did not

Cat even switched from Suz to their own 2-strokes over that time frame and AFAIK, the Cat 2-strokes worked very well

Cat had the 4-stroke offerings - Yamaha did too, apparently a better one, but from all that I have heard, Cats 4-stroke were solid motors too though

 

Then there was the Yamaha Ski's, that most did not like.

The Yamaha clutching, I have no idea if it was good or worst than Cat's, but did the T-cat not out run the Yamaha in the same chassis, which I would suggest is a clutch thing (I am not sure if that is accurate or not).

They each had different gauges, that I think both were bad.

I think the Yammi graphics were better.

 

Did Yammi come into the production plant and help Cat with improving the builds over the years, - I have no idea personally, maybe they helped with that 

The Procross chassis improved each and every year, no matter what people said about how old it was, it was always being improved upon.

 

Curious to know how or why you think the other way, the above are just my thoughts.

[wrightonalan]

sounds like cat has really got a nice sled coming out .hopefully lives up to billing in the real world

[scottyr]

3 hours ago, stoney said:

I am sure some might think that, but IMO, I do not think so.

 

Cat had the chassis - Yamaha did not

Cat had the 2-stroke offerings - Yamaha did not

Cat even switched from Suz to their own 2-strokes over that time frame and AFAIK, the Cat 2-strokes worked very well

Cat had the 4-stroke offerings - Yamaha did too, apparently a better one, but from all that I have heard, Cats 4-stroke were solid motors too though

 

Then there was the Yamaha Ski's, that most did not like.

The Yamaha clutching, I have no idea if it was good or worst than Cat's, but did the T-cat not out run the Yamaha in the same chassis, which I would suggest is a clutch thing (I am not sure if that is accurate or not).

They each had different gauges, that I think both were bad.

I think the Yammi graphics were better.

 

Did Yammi come into the production plant and help Cat with improving the builds over the years, - I have no idea personally, maybe they helped with that 

The Procross chassis improved each and every year, no matter what people said about how old it was, it was always being improved upon.

 

Curious to know how or why you think the other way, the above are just my thoughts.

 

The Cat was the better sled of the 2.    Yamaha skis suck and Cats clutches work better.   The Cat is faster every time across the lake according to my buddy who is a Cat/Yamaha dealer.    

[Spiderman]

13 hours ago, stoney said:

I am sure some might think that, but IMO, I do not think so.

 

Cat had the chassis - Yamaha did not

Cat had the 2-stroke offerings - Yamaha did not

Cat even switched from Suz to their own 2-strokes over that time frame and AFAIK, the Cat 2-strokes worked very well

Cat had the 4-stroke offerings - Yamaha did too, apparently a better one, but from all that I have heard, Cats 4-stroke were solid motors too though

 

Then there was the Yamaha Ski's, that most did not like.

The Yamaha clutching, I have no idea if it was good or worst than Cat's, but did the T-cat not out run the Yamaha in the same chassis, which I would suggest is a clutch thing (I am not sure if that is accurate or not).

They each had different gauges, that I think both were bad.

I think the Yammi graphics were better.

 

Did Yammi come into the production plant and help Cat with improving the builds over the years, - I have no idea personally, maybe they helped with that 

The Procross chassis improved each and every year, no matter what people said about how old it was, it was always being improved upon.

 

Curious to know how or why you think the other way, the above are just my thoughts.

 

I am just thinking it's entirely possible.

we have no idea what Cat's true financial standing was

Its great they had all that stuff - but it doesn't matter if their sales aren't very good

Yamaha could have come to them and said - "hey, we have some good stuff too - we're going to bow out in a few - but for now -we have these contracts - we have this/that - lets' partner up - we'll share some stuff - you'll make a few more sales - we'll full fill what we need to then exit stage left"

 

I just don't see Yamaha taking on the partnership to try and stay relevant in the game.

They are a very smart and well run company - who make excellent products in a lot of sectors

I just deep down think they are smart enough to realize the sled market is not a money maker - we'll gracefully exit - rather than just shut everything down and go home. 

 

[stoney]

1 hour ago, Spiderman said:

 

I am just thinking it's entirely possible.

we have no idea what Cat's true financial standing was

Its great they had all that stuff - but it doesn't matter if their sales aren't very good

Yamaha could have come to them and said - "hey, we have some good stuff too - we're going to bow out in a few - but for now -we have these contracts - we have this/that - lets' partner up - we'll share some stuff - you'll make a few more sales - we'll full fill what we need to then exit stage left"

 

I just don't see Yamaha taking on the partnership to try and stay relevant in the game.

They are a very smart and well run company - who make excellent products in a lot of sectors

I just deep down think they are smart enough to realize the sled market is not a money maker - we'll gracefully exit - rather than just shut everything down and go home. 

 

 

I agree, it was not all one sided and they both gained from this, I just think Cat had more that was brought to the table on the snowmobile side.

 

Yammi needed a new chassis, I assume they knew the market for them was not worth that investment to retool for a new one at that time, so who to piggy back off of vs. possibly shutting things down back than, I am guessing Cat was the only one of the three that saw greater value in that partnership with Doo and Poo so far out front with market share, maybe I am wrong though.

Cat financially may have also needed and gained from that, not sure, but Cat would have gained some Yammi riders for sure, so win win......but I am guessing they also lost riders due to no new chassis, bigger cc motor, etc....themselves over the years.

 

Was the partnership a short bandage fix before closing or if they saw the market share go up the last few years, maybe they had plan B, I doubt that though and of course that never happened clearly......only to be a fly on the wall.