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Halfway Haven closing

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10 hours ago, signfan said:

326 km wawa to black creek

317 km wawa to Golais river

263 Km wawa to chapleau

285 Km chapleau to black creek

276 Km chapleau to golais river

 

All based on the Algoma Trail Plan map.  You see 200 km between fuel stations in Quebec and it works.  I think that's getting near the max though.  At these distances I think you'd see a lot of ppl getting into trouble.  Detouring through Chapleau helps, but still some big distance many sleds won't make.

 

For comparison what are you Cochrane to Abitibi Base Camp and then down to Smooth Rock.  250 km???  Most consider Abitibi Base Camp to be a necessary lifeline for that trail.

Something not right with your distances. You must have used wawa 5 and back tracked on wawa lake. When I last rode it in 2018 I swear it was 60 miles from chapleau to halfway snd another 70 miles to wawa for a total of 208 km’s. Then another 37 miles or so to dub. I think my total for day was around 270 km’s, which would be dub to chapleau.
This is how it got it’s name too. 
 

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30 minutes ago, Strong Farmer said:

Something not right with your distances. You must have used wawa 5 and back tracked on wawa lake. When I last rode it in 2018 I swear it was 60 miles from chapleau to halfway snd another 70 miles to wawa for a total of 208 km’s. Then another 37 miles or so to dub. I think my total for day was around 270 km’s, which would be dub to chapleau.
This is how it got it’s name too. 
 

Just running off what the Algoma trail plan map says.

 

24 kms wawa town site to top D / wawa 5.

 

112.1 km top d / wawa 5 to Halfway

 

15.7 halfway to the chapleau turn

 

110.9 chapleau turn to chapleau

 

According to the map running north up wawa 5 and then down the lake to town is 26 km.  

 

My math comes out over the 260 km mark.  Whether this all makes sense or not I don't know.  It's what's on the map.  Even if it's out by 10 km you're still up near 250 km.

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2 minutes ago, signfan said:

Just running off what the Algoma trail plan map says.

 

24 kms wawa town site to top D / wawa 5.

 

112.1 km top d / wawa 5 to Halfway

 

15.7 halfway to the chapleau turn

 

110.9 chapleau turn to chapleau

 

According to the map running north up wawa 5 and then down the lake to town is 26 km.  

 

My math comes out over the 260 km mark.  Whether this all makes sense or not I don't know.  It's what's on the map.  Even if it's out by 10 km you're still up near 250 km.

 

4CC4FA8C-6981-4892-923D-8F3593F3F433.png

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1 minute ago, Strong Farmer said:
3 minutes ago, Strong Farmer said:

 

4CC4FA8C-6981-4892-923D-8F3593F3F433.png

I went a looking and that’s what I found from 2018. Ski is very close,hope he don’t mind me digging that up. No where near 260 km’s. Ski math it is 218 km’s which is doable on most sleds and if you carry a few l of fuel it won’t be an issue. Hope ofsc can keep bottom end of loop open. Cheers 

Edited by Strong Farmer
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, signfan said:

Hopefully the map is wrong.  It would be a shame to see C101D closed again.

I think it’s 227 from Wawa to Chapleau. It’s sad but I don’t see how this trail will remain open with out Halfway. Most times the groomer operators sleep at halfway and pick up fuel very tuff terrain to open up 

Edited by 1049
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2022 will be a completely different season once mass vaccinations are completed.

 

Possibly 2022 or 2023 will be the return to no restrictions if you look south of the border at how they are opening up.  

 

 

How much much is the shortfall?

 

I have never been there but wanted to do a trip including a stop there.  

 

 

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On 5/1/2021 at 12:34 PM, scottyr said:

This is another blow to tourism in that area.   So does this mean that you cannot get from Chapleau to Wawa anymore either?    

Depends on the sled/sledder. I can.

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14 hours ago, signfan said:

Just running off what the Algoma trail plan map says.

 

24 kms wawa town site to top D / wawa 5.

 

112.1 km top d / wawa 5 to Halfway

 

15.7 halfway to the chapleau turn

 

110.9 chapleau turn to chapleau

 

According to the map running north up wawa 5 and then down the lake to town is 26 km.  

 

My math comes out over the 260 km mark.  Whether this all makes sense or not I don't know.  It's what's on the map.  Even if it's out by 10 km you're still up near 250 km.

Close enough, although the distance from Top D/Wawa 5 intersection to Halfway is suspect. That stretch on my last three sleds has always been closer to 90 km, maybe 95 (when every map I have used has called it much further), but all the other distances have agreed with my sled. I think that is where some others have come up with 225 to 235 for Wawa to Chapleau. But as 1049, Turbo Doo and others have stated, it isn't fuel for sleds that makes HH a critical fixture. There's all of the grooming logistics, food, shelter and safety considerations that are even more important. Newer sleds almost all have provision to add a fuel caddy, and sleds like mine can cover 275-300 km on a tank. This will be a tough loss for sled trippers, as will the loss of Black Creek Outfitters, if that happens. The run from Elliot Lake, or alternatively Searchmont, to Hearst is my favourite continuous bit of long distance trail in the province. Just when it looked like we might get Manitouwage/ Marathon on a linked loop, we might lose most of the west D/F trails. That would be a tougher loss to me than loosing districts 4,5 and 9 and they are my home turf and enjoyed them this year. Hopefully, new owners surface for Black Creek and a miracle solution is found for HH. If that happens, all you peeps that haven't ridden in my favourite area, get out and try it, just not all at once during my trip.

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Edited by tricky
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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, tricky said:

Close enough, although the distance from Top D/Wawa 5 intersection to Halfway is suspect. That stretch on my last three sleds has always been closer to 90 km, maybe 95 (when every map I have used has called it much further), but all the other distances have agreed with my sled. I think that is where some others have come up with 225 to 235 for Wawa to Chapleau. But as 1049, Turbo Doo and others have stated, it isn't fuel for sleds that makes HH a critical fixture. There's all of the grooming logistics, food, shelter and safety considerations that are even more important. Newer sleds almost all have provision to add a fuel caddy, and sleds like mine can cover 275-300 km on a tank. This will be a tough loss for sled trippers, as will the loss of Black Creek Outfitters, if that happens. The run from Elliot Lake, or alternatively Searchmont, to Hearst is my favourite continuous bit of long distance trail in the province. Just when it looked like we might get Manitouwage/ Marathon on a linked loop, we might lose most of the west D/F trails. That would be a tougher loss to me than loosing districts 4,5 and 9 and they are my home turf and enjoyed them this year. Hopefully, new owners surface for Black Creek and a miracle solution is found for HH. If that happens, all you peeps that haven't ridden in my favourite area, get out and try it, just not all at once during my trip.

Yes I agree everyone should experience this area . The last few years this has become my home turf with no snow close to home I really hope someone comes up with a solution because once it’s gone it will be very hard get it back 

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Edited by 1049
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21 minutes ago, tricky said:

Close enough, although the distance from Top D/Wawa 5 intersection to Halfway is suspect. That stretch on my last three sleds has always been closer to 90 km, maybe 95 (when every map I have used has called it much further), but all the other distances have agreed with my sled. I think that is where some others have come up with 225 to 235 for Wawa to Chapleau. But as 1049, Turbo Doo and others have stated, it isn't fuel for sleds that makes HH a critical fixture. There's all of the grooming logistics, food, shelter and safety considerations that are even more important. Newer sleds almost all have provision to add a fuel caddy, and sleds like mine can cover 275-300 km on a tank. This will be a tough loss for sled trippers, as will the loss of Black Creek Outfitters, if that happens. The run from Elliot Lake, or alternatively Searchmont, to Hearst is my favourite continuous bit of long distance trail in the province. Just when it looked like we might get Manitouwage/ Marathon on a linked loop, we might lose most of the west D/F trails. That would be a tougher loss to me than loosing districts 4,5 and 9 and they are my home turf and enjoyed them this year. Hopefully, new owners surface for Black Creek and a miracle solution is found for HH. If that happens, all you peeps that haven't ridden in my favourite area, get out and try it, just not all at once during my trip.

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Well said tricky. I feel the same way if something ever happened like this to the NCDN.  Hopefully a solution comes along. Absolutely some of the best riding period.  

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It does not seem to me that the owners have widely advertised the position or its responsibilities - nothing in any of the internet job sites that I can find. I believe the last two managers were hired from the U.S. (could be wrong about that admittedly) Despite the trail closures etc. the optics aren't good for any government help given the broader needs of society currently. 

 

Just blue skying here but here's a potential solution.....the Lesters hand over the OFSC publicity contract they have to Craig Nicholson and spouse and completely divest themselves from any OFSC involvement. The eliminates the oxymoronic condition that exists where the OFSC bans the use of aftermarket exhaust systems and other such products while an OFSC  magazine advertises and reviews these products. Most of the publicity for the OFSC is done on the internet through email or facebook and the magazine (if you ever got a copy) is largely irrelevant.

 

The Lesters take over Half Way haven - at their own expense - and create a mecca (just to be inclusive) - a world class facility - for off trail riders, an aspect of the sport for which they have been pushing for years.  This could be done in conjunction with Wawa's "mystery spot"  for those looking for pow back in the woods. In the off season, the same place is used for ATV's which is another sideline of Lester business. With the majority of the clientele staying for 1 night or just stopping for gas and a meal, an expansion in facilities built of used shipping containers could be done rather inexpensively. 

 

Staff would rotate between the family compound somewhere near Haliburton (?) and Half Way depending on the season.

The sleddin' Lesters - zeke, abner, cletus, clive, dudley, and forest - would person the place in the winter.

The atv'n Lesters - jedediah, otis, rueben, bucephelus, buck, cooter, and jed - would run the ATV facility. An extra person is with this team to be in charge of re-supply.

 

Provided a feud didn't develop between the sleddin' Lesters and the atv'n Lesters, I think it would work. 

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On 5/1/2021 at 9:36 PM, 1049 said:

There’s no way the loop will be kept open with out a fuel stop . The OFSC will never allow that just way to much risk 

Agreed.   The OFSC will not allow a trail that is that far between fuel stops.    The longest trail I have seen without fuel is from Amos to Matagami in Quebec and that is 200kms.   Way too much liability for the OFSC and Clubs in the event that someone gets stuck on the trail and runs out of gas and potentially dies.   

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Swisha to Temiscaming - TQ43 - 215 km station to station. 

 

If its only 225 to 235 Chapleau to Wawa that might be ok.  Grooming is the tougher point.  The temiscaming club has an outfitter building part way in the operators stay at and groom the trail over a three day period.  Not ideal, but they seem to make it work.  

 

 

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33 minutes ago, signfan said:

Swisha to Temiscaming - TQ43 - 215 km station to station. 

 

If its only 225 to 235 Chapleau to Wawa that might be ok.  Grooming is the tougher point.  The temiscaming club has an outfitter building part way in the operators stay at and groom the trail over a three day period.  Not ideal, but they seem to make it work.  

 

 

Doable in perfect conditions. I'd still want to have fuel. Off trail excursions by choice or not, or any type of hiccup,  forget it. 

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1 hour ago, scottyr said:

Agreed.   The OFSC will not allow a trail that is that far between fuel stops.    The longest trail I have seen without fuel is from Amos to Matagami in Quebec and that is 200kms.   Way too much liability for the OFSC and Clubs in the event that someone gets stuck on the trail and runs out of gas and potentially dies.   

Fuel in Saint Felix du dalquier. Nothing in Saint Dominique du Rosaire 

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44 minutes ago, scottyr said:

Agreed.   The OFSC will not allow a trail that is that far between fuel stops.    The longest trail I have seen without fuel is from Amos to Matagami in Quebec and that is 200kms.   Way too much liability for the OFSC and Clubs in the event that someone gets stuck on the trail and runs out of gas and potentially dies.   

I have done the trail from Hornepayne direct to Longlac at 270Km without gas.  This trail still exists as far as I know at least when pandemics are gone.  Yes, made it without using the extra I had with on my 2-stroke Cat XF-8000.  I added gas on the way back so I could play since I proved to myself it could be done with hard packed trails.  Conditions make all the difference.  Nobody is making these long distances without groomed trails unless they have deep snow sleds pulling supplies "expedition" style and that is not what we are talking about.

 

The money put into the bridge on the old F trail between Dog Lake and Chapleau created a direct link between Chapleau and Dub and Ernie's even had food and gas and if people were again using the trail would probably re-open some lodging earlier in the season.  He always opens it for ice fishing later in the season.  That trail was fast and would create the loop to Timmins from Dub.  This is less than 185 Km and broken up by the stop at Dog Lake with fuel/food and potentially a place to sleep.  Back when Halfway was closed we even took a day to break trail out to Halfway from Valentine's just to do it.  We used saws and carried extra fuel.  It was a great day to remember. 

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Another possibility is moose horn lodge could put gas in. If you take Shepard Moore’s road out from there and head towards wawa I believe it if a little over 30 miles to half way from there. That would make wawa within 100 miles. Be a good spot for groomer fuel too. A groomer could easily head out from there and groom 55 miles or so and head back. Then wawa could do remaining 50 miles or so and manageable. Not helping Americans by making a connection to the soo though. Maybe search mount could get gas again some how to make that a possibility again. I wouldn’t say trail is dead yet. 
 

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2 minutes ago, AC+YA said:

I have done the trail from Hornepayne direct to Longlac at 270Km without gas.  This trail still exists as far as I know at least when pandemics are gone.  Yes, made it without using the extra I had with on my 2-stroke Cat XF-8000.  I added gas on the way back so I could play since I proved to myself it could be done with hard packed trails.  Conditions make all the difference.  Nobody is making these long distances without groomed trails unless they have deep snow sleds pulling supplies "expedition" style and that is not what we are talking about.

 

The money put into the bridge on the old F trail between Dog Lake and Chapleau created a direct link between Chapleau and Dub and Ernie's even had food and gas and if people were again using the trail would probably re-open some lodging earlier in the season.  He always opens it for ice fishing later in the season.  That trail was fast and would create the loop to Timmins from Dub.  This is less than 185 Km and broken up by the stop at Dog Lake with fuel/food and potentially a place to sleep.  Back when Halfway was closed we even took a day to break trail out to Halfway from Valentine's just to do it.  We used saws and carried extra fuel.  It was a great day to remember. 

 

The issue back then was that Wawa get cut out of the loop as it is an out of the way dead end except for those trailering to Wawa to start the loop and must first run up to Dub and then get on with the loop in either direction. 

 

This is why I believe that the old trail was chopped and Halfway included in the trails from both directions.  The F trail from Black Creek was cut also so everyone had to go through Halfway.  I believe this was needed to keep them alive even in normal years.

 

Sault Ste. Marie has been cut out of the looping except for those starting from there, especially since Searchmont lost GAS.  Without back tracking to SSM or Goulias River at minimum, those following the Northshore cannot make it.  There was extra time added to these big trips 1 or 2 days when not skipping SSM by running directly from Elliot Lake to Black Creek and then to Halfway and beyond.

 

All these routes are GREAT RIDING!  I have been sad ever since the loss of GAS at Searchmont which started to destroy Halfway Haven.  Halfway will never have the traffic they once had back in the day when the people from Michigan ran up and down to Wawa from SSM as fantastic weekend riding.  Many also did the 1 day rides from Searchmont to Halfway and back.  This was killed when the 1 day permit somehow got lost.  All that was needed was some OPP or trail patrols to enforce the 1-day since so many rode the entire weekend on the 1-day.  Nobody ever checking.

 

I have made it from Goulais River to Chapleau without ever going near Halfway Haven and almost twice a month was going from Searchmont to Chapleau direct.  180 Km direct and much faster.  Also have done Chapleau to Black Creek direct and much faster.  Again, the actual official trail portions NEEDS TO BE GROOMED. 

 

This will make for some of the best OFF TRAIL Riding anywhere for those who know what is out there.

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3 hours ago, scottyr said:

Agreed.   The OFSC will not allow a trail that is that far between fuel stops.    The longest trail I have seen without fuel is from Amos to Matagami in Quebec and that is 200kms.   Way too much liability for the OFSC and Clubs in the event that someone gets stuck on the trail and runs out of gas and potentially dies.   

Hearst to Longlac is a good distance, and even with gas at Calstock, it's still more then most will want to ride without carrying fuel. Depending on conditions as @AC+YA said. And it's a OFSC trail.

Edited by Turbo Doo
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5 hours ago, scottyr said:

Agreed.   The OFSC will not allow a trail that is that far between fuel stops.    The longest trail I have seen without fuel is from Amos to Matagami in Quebec and that is 200kms.   Way too much liability for the OFSC and Clubs in the event that someone gets stuck on the trail and runs out of gas and potentially dies.   

Scott, there is fuel between Amos and Mattagami at Saint Felix-de-Dalquier north of Amos less than a km east of the trail on the crossroad just south of the main intersection. Check ahead for Sunday opening and is still on Quebec map. That leaves about 178 km. to gas in Mattagami.   Trail # 93 from Chibougamou to LaDore had no fuel at the sawmill last winter so that is a 248 km. stretch.

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On 5/1/2021 at 1:20 PM, Turbo Doo said:

Just need gas...Question is, will Wawa, and Sault still groom, and make the loop for the adventurers. 

No.  Just like the last time it closed, and now the F trail is closed also.  Very sad if there is no work around, even the big northern loop section between Timmins and Chapleau will be done.  This will isolate the northwest from the area between SSM and Sudbury. 

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On 5/1/2021 at 7:39 PM, revrnd said:

Black Creek has been cut off from Chapleau for a few years now, so this is a completely different issue.

Many have been going from Black Creek to Chapleau via Halfway Haven and I think I made that trip faster than the old direct F trail.  All it did was hook the two in a better way.  I took Toll Creek Road usually to save a few hours since it was shorter and no need to go out of the way to Halfway Haven.   

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