Jump to content
mike37

ofsc now says that pres of the club will not be paid to groom

Recommended Posts

On 4/10/2021 at 2:26 PM, soupkids said:

The president of the club should be a sitting member of the district board.

I'm pretty sure that is the case. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, revrnd said:

I'm pretty sure that is the case. 

 

 

Yeah it is.

 

According to ON NFP Corp law the club prez, VP or treasurer are the only legal officers of the club/corp, and the only ones that can legally have a board seat representing the club.

 

Silly but the actual perfectly legal way around this stupid BS is for each clubs prez to resign (remove themselves from the district table) and for each club to hold an election and make the one of the 3 corp officers whom doesn't groom (which hopefully you have) the interim club prez. Then the Dist have a board meeting with all the non grooming interim club prez's to set the district grooming wage. Then hold another election and put the original prez back in. The way NFP legislation is now written, legally a club/NFP corp cannot even have an alternate officer attend for a club to have a vote if the prez is unable to attend a dist board meeting.  

 

I'm guessing this works good to heed fraud in NFP corps, in the case of the OFSC (which likely there isn't another NFP corp comparison in how they operate) it causes so much hardship for the org)  

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, revrnd said:

club presidents would likely be @ district meetings where pay rates are discussed.

Would pay rates not be decided at a separate Trails Committee meeting?  Trails Committee board may be a different set of delegates, no?

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, whits-end said:

Would pay rates not be decided at a separate Trails Committee meeting?  Trails Committee board may be a different set of delegates, no?

My terminology may be incorrect. I was meaning that these decisions are made at the district level, not the club.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So got email Sunday night for review for upcoming club meeting. Here is a screenshot of trail permit agreement.

Will bring it up at the club meeting (zoom), looks like I and 2 others will have to step down from one position or another, or maybe all of 'em and just go back to watching, waiting and hoping for trails to open.

 

Screenshot_2021-04-13-07-21-35.png

Edited by Crow
Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Crow said:

So got email Sunday night for review for upcoming club meeting. Here is a screenshot of trail permit agreement.

Will bring it up at the club meeting (zoom), looks like I and 2 others will have to step down from one position or another, or maybe all of 'em and just go back to watching, waiting and hoping for trails to open.

 

Screenshot_2021-04-13-07-21-35.png

The words "close associate" leave a lot of room open for interpretation. Most clubs operate with a pretty small crew of people doing the largest part of the work and in my years of involvement this small group usually become good/close friends. Our club for example has a well known member that has done a lot of work in the club over the years including having owned our clubhouse. He is also one of the main groomer operators for a groomer that does 2 clubs' trails. Does this mean that because he a friend of the club president and treasurer that he should no longer be a paid groomer operator? This is a guy that will groom 12 hours through the night when called upon and is a good equipment operator. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

PLC, this is dated April/21, so I don't know if it is an update or not.

I agree, clubs operate on a small dedicated crew, and too few people have to do too much to keep this sport going.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, whits-end said:

Would pay rates not be decided at a separate Trails Committee meeting?  Trails Committee board may be a different set of delegates, no?

Pay rates are recommended by the grooming committee then voted on at the district board level, if club rep on district board is a paid groomer operator then must recuse themselves from the vote.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

So does this include trail building type work, dozer excavator etc.. as a conflict 

I’m currently VP for our club,

Clubs been using my equipment for years, some paid some volunteer

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, GTC said:

So does this include trail building type work, dozer excavator etc.. as a conflict 

I’m currently VP for our club,

Clubs been using my equipment for years, some paid some volunteer

 

 

Is the club or district paying for the work?

 

I get the feeling that some of you are upset about this. Try looking @ it another way. For years the average (read uninformed) snowmobiler has felt that the bureaucracy of the OFSC is an old boys club/business done behind closed doors/people lining their pockets operation...

 

When these same people hear that certain executive members are getting paid (w/o knowing why) that's when the rumours arise. 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, revrnd said:

Is the club or district paying for the work?

 

I get the feeling that some of you are upset about this. Try looking @ it another way. For years the average (read uninformed) snowmobiler has felt that the bureaucracy of the OFSC is an old boys club/business done behind closed doors/people lining their pockets operation...

 

When these same people hear that certain executive members are getting paid (w/o knowing why) that's when the rumours arise. 

That’s true. I volunteered for a local club in this area in 2008 ish. I went to first two meetings and volunteered to do a few things and club told me they had to have a secret vote with members and decide if that was ok. That turned me off so never bothered to go back to next meeting.  No wonder there is a shortage of volunteers. 

Edited by Strong Farmer
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, revrnd said:

Is the club or district paying for the work?

 

I get the feeling that some of you are upset about this. Try looking @ it another way. For years the average (read uninformed) snowmobiler has felt that the bureaucracy of the OFSC is an old boys club/business done behind closed doors/people lining their pockets operation...

 

When these same people hear that certain executive members are getting paid (w/o knowing why) that's when the rumours arise. 

Paid by district, but like I said some is paid and a lot is volunteer

No old boys club here, we openly invite anybody to our meetings.

Have not seen a line up at the door yet, some nights hardly have enough to hold a meeting.

I would gladly give up my position and sit and watch for trails to go green, especially if accused of lining my pockets

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GTC said:

Paid by district, but like I said some is paid and a lot is volunteer

No old boys club here, we openly invite anybody to our meetings.

Have not seen a line up at the door yet, some nights hardly have enough to hold a meeting.

I would gladly give up my position and sit and watch for trails to go green, especially if accused of lining my pockets

I'm not insinuating that any members here that are on club boards are lining their pockets. I've had 2 stints on the Paudash board, back in the 80s/90s & more recently 6 years & have stepped back.

 

A person would have to be deaf to not hear the chatter about the sport while out & about. Trust me I've heard some pretty ridiculous comments from non-sledders (and ill-informed sledders) that have no idea of how things are run. This is how the 'over the fence' BS gets spread.

 

I know there have been some changes in the past year that pretty much eliminates most board positions @ the club level. If I'm wrong would someone correct me?

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, revrnd said:

I'm not insinuating that any members here that are on club boards are lining their pockets. I've had 2 stints on the Paudash board, back in the 80s/90s & more recently 6 years & have stepped back.

 

A person would have to be deaf to not hear the chatter about the sport while out & about. Trust me I've heard some pretty ridiculous comments from non-sledders (and ill-informed sledders) that have no idea of how things are run. This is how the 'over the fence' BS gets spread.

 

I know there have been some changes in the past year that pretty much eliminates most board positions @ the club level. If I'm wrong would someone correct me?

There are certain positions that must be filled as per OFSC for the club to exist, just cant remember all of them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Omg. Let them groom. Pay people who groom.  Look at Quebec 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, GrizzlyGriff said:

Omg. Let them groom. Pay people who groom.  Look at Quebec 

:right_on:

Link to post
Share on other sites

On the other hand I have been around executive members that could be @ best described as (& I'm being charitable here) chair warmers. I'll just leave it @ that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/13/2021 at 12:06 PM, GTC said:

So does this include trail building type work, dozer excavator etc.. as a conflict 

I’m currently VP for our club,

Clubs been using my equipment for years, some paid some volunteer

 

 

As an executive member yes this could be perceived  as a conflict if you are being paid for the work. It sucks but we are tied to the NFPCA  and the terms of the MTO agreement. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/13/2021 at 8:50 PM, revrnd said:

I'm not insinuating that any members here that are on club boards are lining their pockets. I've had 2 stints on the Paudash board, back in the 80s/90s & more recently 6 years & have stepped back.

 

A person would have to be deaf to not hear the chatter about the sport while out & about. Trust me I've heard some pretty ridiculous comments from non-sledders (and ill-informed sledders) that have no idea of how things are run. This is how the 'over the fence' BS gets spread.

 

I know there have been some changes in the past year that pretty much eliminates most board positions @ the club level. If I'm wrong would someone correct me?

Depends if you are an incorporated club or a non incorporated chapter . Chapter is an informal committee instead of having an executive, this to my knowledge would relieve you from any perceived  conflict as long as you were not a representative on the district board. and in that case you just remove yourself from discussion and any voting on grooming wages.

  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BoonerBP said:

Depends if you are an incorporated club or a non incorporated chapter . Chapter is an informal committee instead of having an executive, this to my knowledge would relieve you from any perceived  conflict as long as you were not a representative on the district board. and in that case you just remove yourself from discussion and any voting on grooming wages.

That's an excellent description of the situation that I'm aware of.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Strong Farmer said:

What are groomer wages anyways! Asking for a friend!! Some one said rookie to pro wage doesn’t vary by much. 

You will not get rich grooming, trust me

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/13/2021 at 7:08 PM, GTC said:

Paid by district, but like I said some is paid and a lot is volunteer

No old boys club here, we openly invite anybody to our meetings.

Have not seen a line up at the door yet, some nights hardly have enough to hold a meeting.

I would gladly give up my position and sit and watch for trails to go green, especially if accused of lining my pockets

We had an account at a local gas station for groomer fuel. At one time there were people making accusations that club members were filling their personal vehicles at the expense of the club. There have been people that believed the club supplied sleds and fuel for those doing trail patrol and were upset about that saying where do they sign up. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 02Sled said:

We had an account at a local gas station for groomer fuel. At one time there were people making accusations that club members were filling their personal vehicles at the expense of the club. There have been people that believed the club supplied sleds and fuel for those doing trail patrol and were upset about that saying where do they sign up. 

I'm sure all clubs have had to deal w/ this nonsense. I know things have improved a lot since my 1st stint in the accountability.

 

I've been told I could put in for mileage for my jobs. I can't be bothered. Drive from Apsley up to Martins Mill to install the bollards (5 minutes work) and home? I think that's a bot chintzy, but then that's just me.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets all just be happy Trudeau is not running the show. Otherwise every permit dollar, plus a few million borrowed would go to a buddy that is listed as groomer operator on every single groomer. Once it was bankrupted a simple shoulder shrug is all you would get.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...