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Borrowing a sled - Moral dilemma

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52 minutes ago, AC+YA said:

 

I have asked interested family members to come experience riding in Northern Canada because it is so nice.  My brother is coming this season from Arizona to ride.  I asked him to come.

 

I have had one of my son-in laws come along.  Two seasons back we made a great loop from Searchmont through all of the Northern Corridor and back down the other side to Searchmont.  Last season from SSM east and back including days of Drummond Island and using the tree line back and forth to St. Joseph Island.  The north shore was the best I have ever seen it with lots of snow.

 

He crashed and rolled a different sled during each trip, but I was still happy that he loves riding.  He offered to pay, but in wanting him to come I had already figured that since I invited him, he would not be held responsible for any issues.  He had never ridden a sled before since he is from southern Illinois. The key is that I asked him to use my sleds. 

 

I have loaned a sled in the past, but a friend asked to take it due to his being in the shop.  At that time I agreed with the understanding that he fixes or buys the sled for $X,XXX in the event of issues.  After all, he asked me to use the sled, I did not invite him to use it.

 

My question is, did the friend ask to use it, or was he invited to take it on the trip?   

In my case it's my invite, so my issue.  I have no issue with it and happy to put smiles on people faces.  I don't lend out my toys.

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When I first got in to sledding in 2011 I borrowed from a friend who offered, and I took him up on it a couple of times.  Put more mileage on his sled than he did!  Always returned it cleaner and full of gas. Didn't know much about what could go wrong but he new I would be good for anything that did.  I guess I was just lucky because it was a 2 stroke triple at the 10k km mark.  

 

Since then I have loaned my spare 4 strokes to a friend as I knew there would be no engine issues. He did several trips with me totalling more than 4k kms. 

 

I think you need to have a conversation prior to any loan to explain all expectations and the current condition of the equipment prior and post loan.

 

Anything to do with money ruins friendship, have the talk prior.

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2 hours ago, gobills said:

Imo I think if I lent a sled out and the persons smashed it up or busted something I would expect them to pay for it.  If buddy was crusing and it blew a piston it would of happened to me so thats out of mine and his hands.  Btw I dont let people use my stuff so....

 

I also do not like borrowing things from people for this exact reason.  Typically if I need something I will buy it. ie. tools etc.

I agree with you. If you smash it, you pay damages. Wouldn't hold him responsible if it blew up. Would have probably  happened anyway.

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17 hours ago, thetorches said:

I agree with you. If you smash it, you pay damages. Wouldn't hold him responsible if it blew up. Would have probably  happened anyway.

X2  

 

 

Couple variables as well.  Did it have a preseason service done, or just take the cover off and ride with no carb service etc..

 

Ive had a two stroke seize up on the first ride after coming back from the dealer on a service.  It happens.

 

You hit a tree though, that s a different story, and i expect you to pay for that.

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Been there before myself. Now I set boundaries and terms on any transaction be it borrow/lend/buy/sell i set boundaries on the outset. Makes life a lot easier and doesnt upset anyone who may think different after the fact than you.

 

The last time I did a favor without boundaries was a friend who was getting divorced. His wife was non working so she got the house. I let the guy move into my place to help him out. A year and a half later, RENT FREE I was getting po'd because there were no boundaries set it made it hard to push him out. I was traveling a ton with work at that time and arrived home with wife ( no kids then ) a day early and came in to find the guy cranking the hell out of my stereo, smoking inside the place too. That was the last straw and he was out within the week. I hardly ever see or hear from him anymore either.

 

No good deed goes unpunished.

Edited by crispy
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3 hours ago, Wildbill said:

Better off just not to loan something out in my experience it often ends badly 

We try to get friends and family to join the sport, but it's better to bring them to the trail and give them a couple rides on your sled with your guidance. If they like snowmobiling, then they can purchase a sled and you have a riding buddy. The present winter conditions would not encourage anyone to purchase a sled for the first time as it would seem like wasted money. This is an expensive sport to get into but expenses smooth out as the years go by.

1. Lending a snowmobile might be a breach of Insurance Policy and if an accident occurs and the borrowed sled crashes into a paid up and insured snowmobiler who is out enjoying the day ... then who is responsible? The person that borrowed the snowmobile or the Owner who has the insurance in his/her name?

2. If you have to borrow a snowmobile to have your fun .... then you cannot afford the sport and shouldn't be borrowing from friend or family.

3. If you rent a snowmobile and it grenades ..... I'm sure you have to pay the costs for the repair in full. ( Was hoping WB would have some input)

 

It's my opinion that the borrower should stand the cost of the repairs.

 

Bottom line is... don't lend your $20,000 snowmobile, I'm sure if the borrower asked you for the same amount in cash that you would think twice.

 

Cheers and it's just my opinion guys.

 

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13 minutes ago, Yamaha Fan said:

We try to get friends and family to join the sport, but it's better to bring them to the trail and give them a couple rides on your sled with your guidance. If they like snowmobiling, then they can purchase a sled and you have a riding buddy. The present winter conditions would not encourage anyone to purchase a sled for the first time as it would seem like wasted money. This is an expensive sport to get into but expenses smooth out as the years go by.

1. Lending a snowmobile might be a breach of Insurance Policy and if an accident occurs and the borrowed sled crashes into a paid up and insured snowmobiler who is out enjoying the day ... then who is responsible? The person that borrowed the snowmobile or the Owner who has the insurance in his/her name?

2. If you have to borrow a snowmobile to have your fun .... then you cannot afford the sport and shouldn't be borrowing from friend or family.

3. If you rent a snowmobile and it grenades ..... I'm sure you have to pay the costs for the repair in full. ( Was hoping WB would have some input)

 

It's my opinion that the borrower should stand the cost of the repairs.

 

Bottom line is... don't lend your $20,000 snowmobile, I'm sure if the borrower asked you for the same amount in cash that you would think twice.

 

Cheers and it's just my opinion guys.

 

With our rentals the renter is only responsible for damages that they cause. Engine failure unless they cause it would be our problem. That has never happened but I would not hold the renter responsible for a mechanical failure of any type

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Most folks would more likely borrow/lend a $4000 machine to a newbie, but ....

 

I did borrow a chums M11 a few yrs ago, and he said that if I bugger it, I buy it, he didn't want it fixed.

Fair enough.

 

I was glad to have rode it too as that Turbo1100 can be a blast for a few minutes, until you try to come back down the hill and that heavy front end is more interested in checking snow depth than actually going down the hill. I was contemplating a 4 stroke for durrability porpoises, and I'd heard that they were bad for that, but some guys are just primadana's, so I wasn't sure. After that day - I was sure, and ended up buying an 850 next.

 

 

Buddy on [one of his] M11's (not the same one) stuck in the mud on top of the hill Easter weekend @ Togwatee Pass maybe 5 years ago.

 

DSCN0105.jpg

 

 

But the 1100 can climb!

 

DSCN0102.jpg

 

 

Here is his white one after knocking the snow off the top half of the hill in The Badlands @ Wawa.

 

DSCN0626_zps879bc33c.jpg

 

 

But if it doesn't have much base - here again - near Wawa somewhere....

 

DSCN0628_zpsdc5ace72.jpg

 

 

 

 

And you guys are fussin' about trailering to Sudbury. LOL!

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited by Ox
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43 minutes ago, Yamaha Fan said:

We try to get friends and family to join the sport, but it's better to bring them to the trail and give them a couple rides on your sled with your guidance. If they like snowmobiling, then they can purchase a sled and you have a riding buddy. The present winter conditions would not encourage anyone to purchase a sled for the first time as it would seem like wasted money. This is an expensive sport to get into but expenses smooth out as the years go by.

1. Lending a snowmobile might be a breach of Insurance Policy and if an accident occurs and the borrowed sled crashes into a paid up and insured snowmobiler who is out enjoying the day ... then who is responsible? The person that borrowed the snowmobile or the Owner who has the insurance in his/her name?

2. If you have to borrow a snowmobile to have your fun .... then you cannot afford the sport and shouldn't be borrowing from friend or family.

3. If you rent a snowmobile and it grenades ..... I'm sure you have to pay the costs for the repair in full. ( Was hoping WB would have some input)

 

It's my opinion that the borrower should stand the cost of the repairs.

 

Bottom line is... don't lend your $20,000 snowmobile, I'm sure if the borrower asked you for the same amount in cash that you would think twice.

 

Cheers and it's just my opinion guys.

 

I asked my insurance company about the coverage once. They told me that if I loaned the sled to someone it would be covered as long as they had a valid drivers license just like my vehicle. However my policy for my vehicle states nobody under 25 will drive it. I'm not sure about the sleds though

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Yeah.

A riding buddy of mine in Colorado makes them.

 

https://high-jacker-snowmobile.myshopify.com/

 

 

 

 

Algoma

 

JackToTheRescue_zpswvyrmef0.jpg

 

I Shirley used the jack to git out of this grave:

 

downsize.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Ox
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Not sure who the guy is in the video, but that's not the guy that builds them.

This guy looks/sounds like Dave Norona, but says his name is Shane.

???

 

 

This is the guy that builds them . Pic taken Crested Butte, Col >10 yrs ago on his 550 fan Pol w/162 track, no seat, and lightweight hood.

 

Oh yeah - other chum behind has his Blade sled that we picked up in Eveluth, Minn - prolly same trip(?) on the way out a cpl days earlier.

Pic must be New Years 2002/2003?

 

I think that was the day that I had to buy steak supper for the group in Gunnison that night as it was determined that I was stuck the most.

100+ year old steak house burnt down later that night. (Cattleman's?)

 

DanBillCrestedButte.jpg

 

 

 

 

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On 1/8/2020 at 10:12 AM, paulslund said:

I think I'm going to be a minority here and say that if I lent my sled to someone, and it blew up due to mechanical failure, there is no way I would ask them to pay for it, unless they caused said mechanical failure.  If I sent them on their way, full tank of gas, full tank of oil, greased skid and good bearings, and the engine just puked that is in no way their doing, and it would have happened to me riding it as well..to ask your friend for money is profiteering in my mind.

 

I fully agree with "you break it, you fix it (or buy it)" ...  but not with "if it happens to break while you were using it, you fix it (or buy it)".  That's extreme in my mind.

 

Paul.

I’m with you 100%
we all know it’s a matter of time. Just because someone got the bad timing he shouldn’t be on the hook for all of it

 

that being said it should have been discussed prior and if I didn’t I’d offer to pay it all. But if it was my sled I wouldn’t take a penny

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Update.   Sled motor was torn apart and it was a crank bearing that seized up.   It was going to happen regardless who was riding the sled. 

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I've lost a cpl of those on that motor over the years.

 

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as i stated in my post, known problem with that sled/model/motor. Ski

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Only peeps riding my stuff, is Mrs. Turbo Doo, Flying Dutchman, TechDenis007 and my 1 good riding buddy,  14snow. Anyone else you can go buy your own..

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