zoso Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 1 hour ago, soupkids said: Now the question nobody has asked or answered. Where does the "north" start ?? Barrie, Parry Sound, French River ?? It really would not matter, because if that type of plan was ever executed the entire system would collapse and there would be no trails all. Sudbury could then become its own entity and continue on without the OFSC. No other area in the north could do the same and raise the funds to have any trails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 7 hours ago, zoso said: It really would not matter, because if that type of plan was ever executed the entire system would collapse and there would be no trails all. Sudbury could then become its own entity and continue on without the OFSC. No other area in the north could do the same and raise the funds to have any trails. They would have to have enough money set aside in advance to buy insurance and groomers in order to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 22 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: They would have to have enough money set aside in advance to buy insurance and groomers in order to do that. When the ofsc folded, they would retain the groomers. insurance for 1500 km of trail could easily be bought. Those groomers have been paid for with permit money from that area. I have to wonder where the money for all those groomers would end up. Anyway. The system as it is now set up is working to get funds to areas with snow. It may not be perfect, but at least now we are more agile in grooming decisions district wide, better at sharing resources, and better at funding areas that are open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyTheSnowman Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 10 hours ago, Big Pussy said: Well here's what I seen of the Free Weekend. On the only day the trails in the Perth County area will likely be open, I seen lots of girl friends out riding on some nice vintage sleds. I also seen young mothers out with kids riding as a family with papa. The Grain Bin Inn was busy as always. Full of people telling stories and having a good time. A lot of those sleds will go back in storage now until next year when the families can have fun again. That’s just fine imo and encouraged. Those older sleds/even newer ones and family’s aren’t ripping the trails up. Anything that a family can do together in the winter is great because ANYONE can sit down and drive one. Even the youngsters. I had some excited pointing and thumbs up and head nods from kids who obviously liked the more modern sled. To them it’s the WhOa/WOW factor that we all had as kids when you saw something cool looking and went to sleep at night dreaming of one day having one too. The goonigans are the ones destroying them and they do it all year long. Free Weekend is when enforcement should be present checking for stolen and uninsured sleds so these families aren’t caught in a hit and run. I bet there is more than a few out there. Heres a thought.....what about family package permits. Pick the one that’s right for you that can include the addition of older classic sleds at a reasonable cost for those. If it’s a true family package most ownerships would be in ma or pas name with the same address and insurance policyholders making it impossible for you and your buddies to scam the system. There are computer algorithms out there that can sort that stuff out and make it legit. Either way it would get more permit dollars flowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 10 hours ago, soupkids said: Now the question nobody has asked or answered. Where does the "north" start ?? Barrie, Parry Sound, French River ?? Steeles Ave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 34 minutes ago, zoso said: When the ofsc folded, they would retain the groomers. insurance for 1500 km of trail could easily be bought. Those groomers have been paid for with permit money from that area. I have to wonder where the money for all those groomers would end up. Anyway. The system as it is now set up is working to get funds to areas with snow. It may not be perfect, but at least now we are more agile in grooming decisions district wide, better at sharing resources, and better at funding areas that are open. Agreed that the District system is working and that more money is getting to where there is snow. I wonder if there is anything already legally set up that states the districts get ownership of the groomers if the OFSC ever folds for whatever reason. If there isn't, there should be. JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 13 hours ago, revrnd said: Yesterday I saw a Buckhorn District groomer on Stoney Lake trails. I mentioned this to the prez of Paudash today & he said the groomers are more or less district property & their groomer committee decides where the groomers will be working. I imagine in the future that the only markings on the equipment will be a district, not club logo. Club grooming boundaries are a thing of the past. Most likely a good thing. Club A grooms up a trail to a point then Club B takes over. Club B groomer breaks down or they don't have an operator available for Friday night. No problem Club A has an operator and a groomer available to keep going up the trail and ensure it's ready for the riders on Saturday morning. Under normal conditions each club takes care of their own but there is more flexibility to make sure the trails are groomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 18 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: Agreed that the District system is working and that more money is getting to where there is snow. I wonder if there is anything already legally set up that states the districts get ownership of the groomers if the OFSC ever folds for whatever reason. If there isn't, there should be. JMHO I would think that any district that wanted to try to continue on could retain the equipment. The remaining assets after sold would be a large sum, where would that go? I am sure there are creditors spread out here and there, and thry would have to be made whole, but that would still leave a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Heading out for a last kick at the can before we lose our local trails to plus seven and rain. They did not groom last night so they will be trashed, it is going to be freezing drizzle and plus two tonight so no grooming and what is left if any will be garbage. We most likely will not see trails here for a couple of weeks if at all for the rest of the season. Happy to have ridden from home the amount I already have and the trailer is ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 10 hours ago, soupkids said: Now the question nobody has asked or answered. Where does the "north" start ?? Barrie, Parry Sound, French River ?? Excellent question and I don't really think there is an answer unless you want to use the parameters the Ministry of Tourism does when they speak of the Near North, the North and so on. Someone traveling from perhaps the Niagara region may define the "North" as being beyond Barrie. I think in a lot of peoples minds the definition is relative to how far they travel and is more related to time than actual distance. The OFSC has conducted surveys regarding trailering and how far they are willing to go both in time and distance. I believe the findings were that the vast majority are willing to drive 2 or 2 1/2 hours. Not 6, 8 or 10 hours to get to their destination. There are definitely some that haven't a problem with that 6 or more hour drive one way. Now that I don't have a job to go to Monday to Friday I would likely consider a trip with a 6 or 7 hour destination for multiple days of riding but never for a weekend. Myself coming from the Toronto area I think of southern Georgian Bay through to Parry Sound and the small communities just north of there as my "Near North". Sudbury and beyond is "North" for me. Now the other part of the equation. The "North" and by that I mean places like Sault Ste. Marie, Cochrane and other communities that could perhaps be delineated as those in the area in essence the north shore of Lake Superior have their assertions. They claim they have snow and need to groom daily and need lots of money to do that and often at the expense of others. I have seen reports on here of how people have been riding those "north" trails, that are impeccably groomed yet they see maybe a couple of other sleds all day. Meanwhile in Muskoka a rider may well see a couple of hundred other sleds in a day. Do you tell those Muskoka riders sorry we can only afford to groom every other day so they can groom daily in Cochrane? It's a very difficult orchestration to get the right amount of resources in the right place at the right time relative to the amount of snow AND the number of riders on that trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poo Man Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I don't mind this weekend as it probably helps get some people back into the sport. What is pissing me off is only one club I see has set their trails to red due to the weather. So now the others are going to be wrecked for sure, and us permit buyers are going to miss out on the trails again for a week or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 1 hour ago, zoso said: I would think that any district that wanted to try to continue on could retain the equipment. The remaining assets after sold would be a large sum, where would that go? I am sure there are creditors spread out here and there, and thry would have to be made whole, but that would still leave a lot. How many groomers are still being operated that are actually owned by the purchasing club? It has been years since I know the club had fundraising to buy a groomer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 45 minutes ago, Poo Man said: I don't mind this weekend as it probably helps get some people back into the sport. What is pissing me off is only one club I see has set their trails to red due to the weather. So now the others are going to be wrecked for sure, and us permit buyers are going to miss out on the trails again for a week or two. According to the Available Trails counter on the ITG, well over 1000 km of trails closed between 7:30 PM last evening when I looked at it and when I looked at it again at 9:00 AM this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 1 hour ago, revrnd said: How many groomers are still being operated that are actually owned by the purchasing club? It has been years since I know the club had fundraising to buy a groomer. In sudbury the STP ( 8 clubs, a few more now) have been buying their groomers for years. Grants are meaningless as the system sucks about $500k per year out of the STP and gives it to other areas. In other words, it could be strongly argued that every groomer and asset they have has been paid for by the people in the area that buy permits and zero money has ever come from ANY outside source, even provincial grants. The same as district 5 that has a crap load of money sucked out of their permit buyers and distributed elsewhere. Sudbury is the only area in the province that could run as a stand alone entity. They sell enough permits to sustain a system and they would actually have more money in the end, and they have a 12 week season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 12 hours ago, soupkids said: Now the question nobody has asked or answered. Where does the "north" start ?? Barrie, Parry Sound, French River ?? I was told @ school during the Dark Ages (the Seventies) that northern Ontario started @ the French River... Mind you we didn't have 'smart boards', still watched 16 mm black & white educational films & were taught cursive writing so what do I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Went for a ride, freezing rain came and I returned home. Saw a few sleds but they will not bother to go too far. Visibility was a real issue, heated shield could not overcome the ice build up and after five minutes it was stop and clear the ice and go again...pretty much sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 1 minute ago, revrnd said: I was told @ school during the Dark Ages (the Seventies) that northern Ontario started @ the French River... Mind you we didn't have 'smart boards', still watched 16 mm black & white educational films & were taught cursive writing so what do I know? It does for the free registration sticker.....if you are a 416er you think it starts at steels avenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Bigfish said: Steeles Ave! Too true... There might be a blessing to the inclement temps today. I doubt too many of the freeloaders will be out in it. Nice sheen of ice on the snow & icicles on the deck railings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Wild Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Years ago someone from the city told me Hwy 7 was up north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 2 hours ago, zoso said: I would think that any district that wanted to try to continue on could retain the equipment. The remaining assets after sold would be a large sum, where would that go? I am sure there are creditors spread out here and there, and thry would have to be made whole, but that would still leave a lot. I think that the OFSC would go to Court to re-possess any groomer unless it was 100% paid for by a Club/District and no $$ from Trail Permit Fees and not listed on OFSC Insurance. Very likely in the fine print of being a Club, District or Grooming Association but I do not have access to the OFSC ByLaws, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, bbakernbay said: I think that the OFSC would go to Court to re-possess any groomer unless it was 100% paid for by a Club/District and no $$ from Trail Permit Fees and not listed on OFSC Insurance. Very likely in the fine print of being a Club, District or Grooming Association but I do not have access to the OFSC ByLaws, etc. If the OFSC folded they would lose in court. Who are they to take all those assets paid for by permit holders and destroy all sledding in Ontario.However a disbanded org is not likely to want to or need to fight for equipment it has no use for. What purpose would the OFSC if it were to fold, would taking equipment serve. What people in the OFSC would even be around to fight this case, the paid personal would all be let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 5 hours ago, Poo Man said: I don't mind this weekend as it probably helps get some people back into the sport. What is pissing me off is only one club I see has set their trails to red due to the weather. So now the others are going to be wrecked for sure, and us permit buyers are going to miss out on the trails again for a week or two. On the bold, I think most do not believe this at all....plus is there any tracking to know this, I do not think there is. Secondly, whether the trail is Red, Yellow or Green.....highly unlikely on the "trash our trails for free" weekend, that anyone is paying any attention to closed trails, unless there is a gate across a trail that is closed. I do not think the "trash our trails for free" weekend would be that big of a sore spot, if we had better winters and every year the weekend that it falls on, seems to be mild, so the added traffic is putting a serious strain on an already fragile system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Between 4 & 6 I heard 2 sleds in the village (raining right now). I think 1 was a Mensa member as it was quite obvious that his sled was equipped w/ a can Braap braap braap.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkids Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Was out for a short ride, 150 miles, saw maybe 10 sled. I gave up on the electric visor about 1/2 way, rode with it open. Other than having the visor flip down at an aggressive 50 km (closer to 100 mph) which was completely covered with ice and my eyelashes freezing shut twice, it was a good ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 22 hours ago, Bigfish said: Steeles Ave! My wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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