Bucking Pig Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Get over it. Where did I say anything about Northern. I didn't did I. It's just your paranoia. Read the start there isn't a win win situation. I have seen trails in the "southern" areas that actually get little traffic because there is a parallel trail that will get you to the same place but is usually in better condition so it sees more traffic. The rationalization is if it isn't being used we have to ask the question is it needed regardless of where it is. Do you upset 1500 riders by closing the heavily used trail or do you upset 15 riders by closing the trail that doesn't get used. If it was a critical trail one would hope and expect it sees more than 15 sleds a week. It's like keeping your store open and losing money every month. Do you continue for the handful of people that come in to buy a loaf of bread every now and then. You have to make tough decisions from time to time. Take a pill chum... I'm agreeing with you, with a caveat. I really don't give a rats hindquarters, remember? My district ceased to exist a couple years ago, my club, even longer ago. Read what I said. IF you want to keep the remote, tourist trails open, a different funding model is needed. Otherwise, you NEED to close the lesser used trails, which mostly happen to be the Tourist Trails, and are mostly in the North. Perhaps you need to get over it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Next season's Trail Permit a Agreement sets out the same fees as the past season, so that is what will be recommended for approval. Val Tag and Increased Enforcement will not see the light of day considering June Election and other legislative priorities after all existing Bills died at the calling of the election. I think the Province needs to come to the table on the northern TOP trails which are the epitome of "Tourism" trails with tremendous economic impacts. IMHO the Province takes way too much revenue out of snowmobiling and puts precious little back in. The local clubs can't support the grooming costs. This would be apolitical win for the party that proposes this platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Club are eventually going to have to make the decisions on what trails to maintain. I don't believe we can financially afford the spider web of trails we have in some areas. As for the dead end self serving trails, those volunteers will get over it if confronted with pure financial fact. Cut off the finger or lose the arm??? When you mention traffic, does that mean no more trail to Tobermory? It sees maybe 15-30 sleds a week and is a dead end destination. Tough decisions ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The ethical question is when do the Clubs make that decision: 1. Before the season starts so potential purchasers know ahead of time what their local trail system will include or not. 2. After people have bought their TP's and find out their favourite or even access trail is no more. We closed several trails in the Redbridge area (303 & 305) about 3 years ago and had virtually no feedback and no one has since asked for reconsideration or re-opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The Tobermory thing, how many permits do they sell these days? Harvey and the folks have done a great job for years......but the lack of amenities is killing them. Ferndale is the last reliable gas stop, Drift inn is closed (winter for sure) Roxxies (the old whispering pines) is closed in the winter and the old Hoppey's is open a couple afternoons a week. Not sure on restaurants right in the tub, but not much if anything in the winter. With the dimise of Colrnel Clarks everything has gone to hell in a hand basket. Too bad really, I love that trail, know it like the back of my hand. Answers are in the permit sales and what the district gets for equalization. The decisions are easy, that doesn't mean they don't hurt. We have all been put in this position due to the clubs that aren't self sufficient anymore, not saying it's their fault, it is just the way it is. AGM will be interesting this year, you goin Faceman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 The Tobermory thing, how many permits do they sell these days? Harvey and the folks have done a great job for years......but the lack of amenities is killing them. Ferndale is the last reliable gas stop, Drift inn is closed (winter for sure) Roxxies (the old whispering pines) is closed in the winter and the old Hoppey's is open a couple afternoons a week. Not sure on restaurants right in the tub, but not much if anything in the winter. With the dimise of Colrnel Clarks everything has gone to hell in a hand basket. Too bad really, I love that trail, know it like the back of my hand. Answers are in the permit sales and what the district gets for equalization. The decisions are easy, that doesn't mean they don't hurt. We have all been put in this position due to the clubs that aren't self sufficient anymore, not saying it's their fault, it is just the way it is. AGM will be interesting this year, you goin Faceman? If every district share on a fairway the equalization money, all clubs are self sufficient under FFC. I seems that there are guys around eh don't understand it. AGM interesting, so far not. The OFSC has with the governors everything under "control". If you look at the new committees and the people who are member of the committees, most are OFSC employees, president/vice-president and governors. Is the new structure of the committees better or worse? No clue but for sure they control everything. Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I thought that they were calling for Volunteers to serve on the Committees. Guess not if you've heard otherwise Greggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Silly me! I thought the CLUBS were supposed to control the OFSC, not just the few Chosen ones. This idea of presenting the motions as 'take it or leave it' really galls me. It is an arrogant attitude that is all to prevalent in this organization, IMO. I would like to see the Early, Early scrapped as I think it is a huge revenue loss. If it continues, this year there will be many more sales pre Nov 1. Of course, tha assumes that the online sales system actually works. The only hope is that the online sales system will collapse yet again. With the track record of the OFSC technology systems this year, (PTS, ORS, IAFG, Groomer Tracking, Online Sales, even the recent online survey with a pre answered question that you could not change, etc.) this is a very real possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 sickening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 If every district share on a fairway the equalization money, all clubs are self sufficient under FFC. I seems that there are guys around eh don't understand it. AGM interesting, so far not. The OFSC has with the governors everything under "control". If you look at the new committees and the people who are member of the committees, most are OFSC employees, president/vice-president and governors. Is the new structure of the committees better or worse? No clue but for sure they control everything. Thanks, Greg Boring agm then eh? I have my doubts, but hey, I don't know FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I thought that they were calling for Volunteers to serve on the Committees. Guess not if you've heard otherwise Greggie.[/quote There is a document online with the complete structure and their tasks. Yes on some committees are some volunteers but others have only governors, employees and vice/presidents. Download and read it. Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Nothing I could find on the online resources site using my password. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 The Tobermory thing, how many permits do they sell these days? Harvey and the folks have done a great job for years......but the lack of amenities is killing them. Ferndale is the last reliable gas stop, Drift inn is closed (winter for sure) Roxxies (the old whispering pines) is closed in the winter and the old Hoppey's is open a couple afternoons a week. Not sure on restaurants right in the tub, but not much if anything in the winter. With the dimise of Colrnel Clarks everything has gone to hell in a hand basket. Too bad really, I love that trail, know it like the back of my hand. Answers are in the permit sales and what the district gets for equalization. The decisions are easy, that doesn't mean they don't hurt. We have all been put in this position due to the clubs that aren't self sufficient anymore, not saying it's their fault, it is just the way it is. AGM will be interesting this year, you goin Faceman? Yes, I'll be there. Permits sold..between Tub and Cen Penn probably 75. The Princess Hotel was open all winter. Apparently they had a deal set up for fuel if needed but still a lot of trail for no ridership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Me either. Try OFSC Online- Resources- Terms of Reference ( effective 1 June 2014) Its below all of the MP documents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Thanks Faceman. I am glad they made it obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Yes, I'll be there. Permits sold..between Tub and Cen Penn probably 75. The Princess Hotel was open all winter. Apparently they had a deal set up for fuel if needed but still a lot of trail for no ridership. Well, for the population, 75 is more support then I figured. If it is 1 club, they meet the 50 permit minimum, Longlac and Grealdton are surviving selling just over 100 permits and no other help. Can't tell them they don't deserve to be there, if they aren't their own permit selling entity, they could change to that and survive. They have the groomer storage south of Lindsey road 20, east of Ira Lake road, do they keep 2 groomers there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Dave..Did you expect anything different?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Well, for the population, 75 is more support then I figured. If it is 1 club, they meet the 50 permit minimum, Longlac and Grealdton are surviving selling just over 100 permits and no other help. Can't tell them they don't deserve to be there, if they aren't their own permit selling entity, they could change to that and survive. They have the groomer storage south of Lindsey road 20, east of Ira Lake road, do they keep 2 groomers there? D9 is going towards being the PSE, Those two are under GBST ( 8 clubs) otherwise they would be toast. Problem is their "pride" in mint trails doesn't equate to the monies that they really should be spending and they are having a hard time with that. Their traffic doesn't justify the amount of grooming they do, as I said, it's a pride thing. Both Tobermory and Central Penn have groomers I believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Try OFSC Online- Resources- Terms of Reference ( effective 1 June 2014) Its below all of the MP documents I can't get into it that way, maybe because I am using my tablet, I will have to log in on my puter at work and see if it works there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 D9 is going towards being the PSE, Those two are under GBST ( 8 clubs) otherwise they would be toast. Problem is their "pride" in mint trails doesn't equate to the monies that they really should be spending and they are having a hard time with that. Their traffic doesn't justify the amount of grooming they do, as I said, it's a pride thing. Both Tobermory and Central Penn have groomers I believeAh, I see, it's been a while since I followed what goes on up there, I know Harvey has been there forever (Tobermory). I hear you on the spending, and I can see them having a tough time with it. We all need to change with the times, hard to accept sometimes, but it needs to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I'm hoping the structure of the funding changes to favor those small communities that do not have adequate resources to sell enough permits to keep their share of the major trunk trails open; like Foleyet and Manitouwadge and all of district 16. I am hopeful that the OFSC and the Ministry of Tourism will finally recognize that closing trails that keep the system connected is not in the best interest of the future of snowmobiling in Ontario. If trails need to be closed it should be portions of the labyrinth of trails that exist in some of those more populated areas. Regarding the prices I am in agreement; given this past season, I would pay more, I would also pay more because I am from the States, but only if those trunk trails remain open. So you are for closing trails that thousands use vs trail that a couple hundred sleds use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 It's not easy, but doesn't it make sense to cut off access to huge areas of Ontario in favor of numerous 5 or 6 mile loops? Look at the trail maps for D1 and D7. Would people really stop buying permits if some of these trails were closed? I know not everyone rides the northern trails, but to completely allow (almost encourage) them to fail just doesn't seem to be in the best interest of snowmobiling in Ontario. 5 years ago, conditions permitting, I could have ridden from Niagara to Longlac and back taking a different route each way. This year I could only go as far west as Hornepayne and Hearst with far fewer route options. I understand the need to have those trails for the local riders and also understand the need to keep them groomed given all of the traffic, those northern trails, because of fewer riders require much less grooming. I know the last 2 years the A107A was open, it was just groomed once for each season. Eliminating access to some of these communities just doesn't make sense for so many reasons. Yes many will stop buying, not everyone drive 3-8hrs to ride 200-300 a day. Most go out and ride 25-80kms if that to have fun and enjoy sledding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 The majority of my snowmobiling is done from home. I can put on 300 kms in a day if I want with being less than 50 to 75 km from home at any given time. This is without riding the same trails twice. If there were no local loops and I had to go 150 km one way and turn around a come back to do 300 kms I would probably seriously reconsider buying the two permits I do . Just my way to enjoy the sport. Nothing against the longer destination trips. well said and that is how the majority of how people ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.