ScottyD Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 you're drunk if you believe that. It took money off the snow. There is no data to back it's success or failure one way or the other, but many of those sleds on Classics were on full paying prior. I doubt there is enough "new" ones out there to make up all the sleds, year after year, that were full paying, and now riding on Classics. Get rid of it! ok lets play it your way, did you get the early cheaper pass, cause if you did than you also took money off the snow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 ok lets play it your way, did you get the early cheaper pass, cause if you did than you also took money off the snow Damn tootin ! I took money off the snow. Last year I bought 5 permits. This year I bought 5 permits. Did I wait till December 1st to buy them this year??? NO Did I buy more because the price was cheaper??? NO !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Thanks Yukon. Correction..............Tim West. Check it out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderman Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 ok lets play it your way, did you get the early cheaper pass, cause if you did than you also took money off the snow Sure did, as did every single person I know who buys permits, every single year, regardless of the cost. Another great idea. If given the option, who wouldn't. Mistake was giving the option! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aar0n Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Constant complaints about people with classic sleds getting a free ride even though they are paying the price asked for by the OFSC for the classic permit is. That is paying what it costs is it not? Take your frustrations out on those who made the decisions on the permit prices and not the people buying the permits regardless of price or age of sled being used. All it is doing is turning people off big time that might otherwise be eager to help. Thank you! Exactly what I was trying to say in my post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyD Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Sure did, as did every single person I know who buys permits, every single year, regardless of the cost. Another great idea. If given the option, who wouldn't. Mistake was giving the option! then dont complain about people taking advantage of the classic permit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 My memory just re-booted. I thought it was Ron Purchase who was our Big Lobbyist. Is Tim West the new Lobbyist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 My memory just re-booted. I thought it was Ron Purchase who was our Big Lobbyist. Is Tim West the new Lobbyist? Ron is strategic development..Tim is External relations...(lobbyist) Tim has been around for as long as I can remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Tim is External relations...(lobbyist) Tim has been around for as long as I can remember and busy doing things that (appear to) benefit Tim. That could be wrong, but 'Optics' don't tell a good story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I am not sure why you guys are fighting for or against the classic permit. I can guarantee, it will not go away. The only thing we can do is freezing the year for 5 years on 1999. That means that every classic snowmobile become 20 years old. Also the ffc will have surprises for some districts. With all the grooming hours some districts will get more money, other districts will get less money. This will work out way different then most clubs were expecting. It will be crying at the end of the season. Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aar0n Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 then dont complain about people taking advantage of the classic permitya honestly your being so hypocritical. you took the option of getting the cheap permit as did the people who buy the classic. Exact same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 A Strategic Development Guy and a Lobbyist Guy and The Intrepid Snowmobiler for Communications but NO respected Trails/club guy like What Mike Farr provided the Clubs. Someone please assure me that we need these positions. The OFSC is a big organization and I agree that we need executives in required support positions. There has been way too many technical glitches over the past 3 years that have not been given proper oversight and these failures are hurting the credibility of OFSC Head Office. I trust the Board of Governors are looking at these positions in a critical and clinical manner. If the weather had not cooperated as it did, we could have faced a fiscal disaster and more Clubs could have folded. Greggie, what is happening on the FFC financial payout to a districts and Clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 ya honestly your being so hypocritical. you took the option of getting the cheap permit as did the people who buy the classic. Exact same thing. I understand your position aarOn, but it is not 'quite' how it appears. It is not 'quite' hypocritical. The argument is that the OFSC should not have offered a discounted permit for a vast number of reasons - we have marvellous trails, our permit price is well below many other winter activities, etc etc etc... (things that you have said)..... But for some reason, the OFSC decided to sell our product for well less than its value. Most every snowmobiler accepted their offer. I bought 5 permits this year and saved a bundle. The discounted price did NOT encourage me to buy a 6th permit. That doesn't make the snowmobiler stupid or hypocritical. If your local snowmobile dealer decided to sell 2015 models for only $4,000 per unit would you buy one? Would you consider the buyers hypocritical? No, I think not. You may, however, consider the snowmobile dealer a Considerably less than astute business person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 A Strategic Development Guy and a Lobbyist Guy and The Intrepid Snowmobiler for Communications but NO respected Trails/club guy like What Mike Farr provided the Clubs. Someone please assure me that we need these positions. The OFSC is a big organization and I agree that we need executives in required support positions. There has been way too many technical glitches over the past 3 years that have not been given proper oversight and these failures are hurting the credibility of OFSC Head Office. I trust the Board of Governors are looking at these positions in a critical and clinical manner. If the weather had not cooperated as it did, we could have faced a fiscal disaster and more Clubs could have folded. Greggie, what is happening on the FFC financial payout to a districts and Clubs? I'm a proponent for paying professional people to do the job. And paying them well. But, I'm also a bottom line guy. Is it true that staff headcount at the OFSC was 28 and the line item for salaries was 1.6 million and most recently the staff headcount at the OFSC is 14 and the line is still 1.6 million?? Is my information correct? Or is my information out of date ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I am located south of Hamilton. We were chatting about what it would take to get the OFSC to allow us to build a trail system. We have broke our own trails for years around here (yes a bit of trespassing on most peoples parts however i do have permission from most land owners to ride.) There are NO official OFSC trails in this area what-so-ever. It would be very benificial if we could start a club, establish trails, and keep the riding organized rather than trespassing all over the place. It would be very benificial to the land owners, sledders and for local businesses all the way down the peninsula to Niagara region. I realize it is a huge venture, however there are so many sledders around here. It would make things legal, safe and more enjoyable. We get just the same season as the eastern sections of District 5, and i believe we would become part of that district. The trails that we have broke, take you through some country that is very scenic and accesable and i believe it would attract a lot of riders. Can you imagine being able to ride all the way to Niagara Fall's!? Any insight, thoughts? Thanks guys! Dan WOW Didn't this topic take a turn. Are we able to make changes at AGM 2014 for the 2014-2015 winter ? If not what will the permit prices be for next winter ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I have a classic pass for my 71 and 77 Sno Jets.....I pay the classic price for passes but would not pay full price for them....everyone always says its the cheapest part of sleddind( pass price) but thats for us to decide...we can all justify spending money on whats important to the individual....some think nothing of dropping a couple hundred bucks for a night out while others would never think of doing that even though they have the money....I do agree that a 15 year old sled should not be a classic...hard to see a 04 viper in a few years being a classic....I would say pre 1985........ secondly someone also posted about stopping the free weekend.....totally disagree on that...I personally know a few guys who have taken their kids, buddies out on there second sleds and those guys are now sled owners and permit buyers and new volunteers for their clubs..the issue is $15000 for a new sled, not a a cheap pass.... I have never paid $15K for a new sled. Someone getting into the sport for the first time isn't likely to either unless they are flush with cash and/or confident of being in the sport for the long haul. My first sled was 4 years old when I bought it as a two up for my wife and I. A short time later I realized she needed her own so another 4 year old sled. After that I started to buy new for myself and since my wife doesn't ride as much I also bought her another 4 year old sled. Mine is now 7 years old, no problems and I like it. My wife's is now 10 years old and I keep offering to get her a new sled but she likes hers and it sips fuel so we are keeping it. There is nothing that requires anyone to spend $15K on a sled so I don't see that as a barrier to the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Ron is strategic development.. Tim is External relations...(lobbyist) Tim has been around for as long as I can remember So dumb question time... he has been around as long as you can remember... is his effectiveness measured? Do we have examples of his success? Status quo may not cut it? In business you have an annual performance review. You are expected to get better at your job each year. Does this happen at OFSC or is this the close knit family where you don't want to upset or offend someone by saying they need to pull up their socks? Just asking because I don't know the answers. It does seem that Que is very successful at getting federal $ while we get nothing typically until the most recent budget announcement. Is Tim even trying to get money from the federal level. What is he doing at the provincial level. It seems we get a varying chunk of $ our way, often with strings attached at where it can be spent but there is a perception that would happen regardless. Is that his claim to fame is a once a year grant of X$ for snowmobiling in the province that is often for specific purposes only. Only asking because I don't know the answers. Maybe he is much more effective than it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 ya honestly your being so hypocritical. you took the option of getting the cheap permit as did the people who buy the classic. Exact same thing. There is a big difference aar0n. One was a discounted price of $180 to make a very early season commitment to the sport regardless of the amount of snow. We all just happened to win the lottery this year on that. In the past with the cut-off being Dec 1 many have simply held off and gambled on whether there was snow or not and if the snow came they would pony up the extra $50 to ride. If it didn't they would either not ride or take their chances on being caught without a permit. The classic permit is giving a huge break on price simply based on the age of your sled. It has nothing to do with how much you ride the trails. You are a prime example. I get the sense you ride quite a bit and if not mistaken have a classic permit. Just because your sled was made in a specific year why should you get to ride as much as or perhaps more than someone with say a 13 year old sled but pay considerably less for you to ride. Change the classic to antique and make the age limit something like 30 years and I will buy into that program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I'm a proponent for paying professional people to do the job. And paying them well. But, I'm also a bottom line guy. Is it true that staff headcount at the OFSC was 28 and the line item for salaries was 1.6 million and most recently the staff headcount at the OFSC is 14 and the line is still 1.6 million?? Is my information correct? Or is my information out of date ? $1.6M at 28 people is an average of $57K per person. Healthy income as an average when you realze that some clerical should be around $35K which would push the top end average higher than $57K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderman Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 then dont complain about people taking advantage of the classic permit I'm not, I have no issue with people taking advantage of the Classic permit whatsoever, its there for the taking, my issue is with the permit being offered in the first place. In it's current form, it was poorly thought out, had no way to track it success and failure, and has done nothing but take money off the snow, and will continue to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aar0n Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I understand your position aarOn, but it is not 'quite' how it appears. It is not 'quite' hypocritical. The argument is that the OFSC should not have offered a discounted permit for a vast number of reasons - we have marvellous trails, our permit price is well below many other winter activities, etc etc etc... (things that you have said)..... But for some reason, the OFSC decided to sell our product for well less than its value. Most every snowmobiler accepted their offer. I bought 5 permits this year and saved a bundle. The discounted price did NOT encourage me to buy a 6th permit. That doesn't make the snowmobiler stupid or hypocritical. If your local snowmobile dealer decided to sell 2015 models for only $4,000 per unit would you buy one? Would you consider the buyers hypocritical? No, I think not. You may, however, consider the snowmobile dealer a Considerably less than astute business person. I see thank you for clarification. The OFSC shouldnt give the discounted permit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aar0n Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 There is a big difference aar0n. One was a discounted price of $180 to make a very early season commitment to the sport regardless of the amount of snow. We all just happened to win the lottery this year on that. In the past with the cut-off being Dec 1 many have simply held off and gambled on whether there was snow or not and if the snow came they would pony up the extra $50 to ride. If it didn't they would either not ride or take their chances on being caught without a permit. The classic permit is giving a huge break on price simply based on the age of your sled. It has nothing to do with how much you ride the trails. You are a prime example. I get the sense you ride quite a bit and if not mistaken have a classic permit. Just because your sled was made in a specific year why should you get to ride as much as or perhaps more than someone with say a 13 year old sled but pay considerably less for you to ride. Change the classic to antique and make the age limit something like 30 years and I will buy into that program. I see your point. My sled is not a classic, it is 9 year olds thus I purchase a full price permit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I have never paid $15K for a new sled. Someone getting into the sport for the first time isn't likely to either unless they are flush with cash and/or confident of being in the sport for the long haul. My first sled was 4 years old when I bought it as a two up for my wife and I. A short time later I realized she needed her own so another 4 year old sled. After that I started to buy new for myself and since my wife doesn't ride as much I also bought her another 4 year old sled. Mine is now 7 years old, no problems and I like it. My wife's is now 10 years old and I keep offering to get her a new sled but she likes hers and it sips fuel so we are keeping it. There is nothing that requires anyone to spend $15K on a sled so I don't see that as a barrier to the sport. good points but disagree.....sleds continue to rise in cost and with that so does repairs....I have buddies with 4 to 6 year old sleds who have had an awful season with repairs.....newer sleds with electronic crap in them mean way more $$ in repairs.....buddy has a 09 Vector who has spend $1200 on stupid electronic crap this season and so did his chums....new people into sport have a hell of a time trying to buy a used sled thats half decent.....with little experince its hard for them to by privately and in my opinion some of the dealers ask crazy prices for older sleds........ one more thing....I keep hearing the phrase ' Take Money Off The Snow"....I think meaning OFSC loses money selling vintage passes???..if that is what it means all I can say is I bought 2 vintage passes for my 70's Sno Jets ....don't think I did any damage, wore any trails out...you would not of known I was even on the trails ( except when you passed me when I broke down..lol..) so the OFSC got $280 from me but if there was not the classic pass they would not of got a cent from me....they sure did not loose snow off the trails from me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 $1.6M at 28 people is an average of $57K per person. Healthy income as an average when you realze that some clerical should be around $35K which would push the top end average higher than $57K. I can't even remember when there were 28 bodies at the Barrie Office. Today I believe we have about 10 or 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 So dumb question time... he has been around as long as you can remember... is his effectiveness measured? Do we have examples of his success? Status quo may not cut it? In business you have an annual performance review. You are expected to get better at your job each year. Does this happen at OFSC or is this the close knit family where you don't want to upset or offend someone by saying they need to pull up their socks? Just asking because I don't know the answers. It does seem that Que is very successful at getting federal $ while we get nothing typically until the most recent budget announcement. Is Tim even trying to get money from the federal level. What is he doing at the provincial level. It seems we get a varying chunk of $ our way, often with strings attached at where it can be spent but there is a perception that would happen regardless. Is that his claim to fame is a once a year grant of X$ for snowmobiling in the province that is often for specific purposes only. Only asking because I don't know the answers. Maybe he is much more effective than it seems. He does more than just beg for money. Remember the Hydro one dilemma district 4/8 were having? He doesnt jusy lobby government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.