They want our coin but don't support snowmobiling

[donkey]

I was being generous with my 5 year assessment of Lakers.  Definitely strange how the lights are still on because every time I drive by I expect to see a big CLOSED sign on it

[Muskoka Man]

I was being generous with my 5 year assessment of Lakers.  Definitely strange how the lights are still on because every time I drive by I expect to see a big CLOSED sign on it

I think the same gang run Lakers that Run NAI in Cochrane 

[SlowTouringGuy]

 He said "why should I? I am right on the trail. It's not like they are grooming a special trail only for me".

 

REALLY ??

 

I find it interesting that this particular quote has been attributed by our club members to Boston Pizza for many Months now; Unbelievably Coincidental that this is now (specifically yesterday) being attributed word for word to another establishment.  Is this some sort of club miscommunication or did Boston Pizza have a Mind-Meld with Frosty? 

 

I find that it tests my limits of credulity to accept that “owner Bob” would say what he is accused of saying to a paying customer, obviously a sledder, and, purportedly, a complete stranger.  Seriously??  Why would any independent small business owner say something like that to a complete stranger? 

 

Is Carey’s Irish Pub Really of “the same attitude”?  The initial post doesn’t say that the poster went in there to hear it firsthand so is this hearsay from the same people that reported what Frosty allegedly said ?   Or did Carey’s Irish Pub not participate this year because they were bought out by another eatery in town and they are undergoing a business analysis to determine what should be most efficient in their operations?? 

 

I approached Frosty last month for advertising.  They, without pause, picked up a quarter page advertisement and the next day sent me an electronic file for publication.

 

The Gravenhurst Chamber lists some 37 eateries - that is not all-inclusive to the snowmobile club catchment area so the potential number is even greater - and it is interesting that only 2 of the 37 took ads with last year’s participants dropping out.  Why is that?   Did some 35 eateries decide that they did not need to advertise to improve their revenues?  Or did they not find the club map ad proposal a compelling Business Proposition ??  Perhaps they found other alternatives more attractive?  It's not like a Gravenhurst small business has unlimited funds.

 

I really don’t feel comfortable appearing to defend the above but there is always more than one side to the story; and am not defending any/all those that did not advertise on our club map, But I feel even More Uncomfortable that this thread is rendering Judgment against them by name in a public forum without the benefit of full disclosure and presentation of evidence for and against. 

 

I really do think that the topic of this thread is an interesting exchange of information.  In a generic form.  I enjoyed reading all of the posts thus far that are addressing the topic in an overarching manner.  Conceptually; how should we be supporting club supporters, what is considered a club supporter, do they have to buy a map ad, should we robotically book into a club supporter motel even if it is a bordello, should we try to be understanding to ‘buy in’ costs for small businesses vs franchises etc etc etc……..

 

BUT………..I am Appalled to see businesses identified by name in the above posts.  Without all the information and with some, I suspect, hearsay.  It is even more appalling to see the club executive enthusiastically participate in the public Flogging !   How is that going to endear us to the local business community ?   Re-visiting these businesses to ask support the Golf Tournament or the Map Ad or a Poker Run or a free/discount meal for trail workers or any other Club activity is going to be double the challenge now that they have been pilloried here for so many to see.  And, quite possibly, very unfairly.  If the alleged quotes are true, burning them as witches in a public forum does not help us build relationships and get them on back on board in the future.  If this is hearsay and some part of airing club dirty laundry then that also doesn't belong on here or we are going to have another “why did you fire the retired guy?” embarrassment found elsewhere on Mr.Interweb. 

2B – you should go to these businesses now and make peace or resign yourself to not seeing another penny from them for a long long time plus the ripple effect to other club revenues.  

 

I encourage continuing this thread on the subject of business partners to clubs.  Be they supporters by way of dollars through ads or other club activities or by way of subsidizing our costs.  

It is in every club’s interest to develop and cultivate partnerships.  Let’s continue this thread in that vein – let’s all learn from each other how to grow partnerships for the benefit of the club, for the benefit of the business entity and for the benefit of the local municipality.   

[extreme600]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm it gets more interesting minute by minute!!   Well, I am going sledding finally tomorrow and we will see where the trails lead me.

[Izzy]

Snowcrest is going to be putting on a Poker Run this year Sunday February 16, 2014.

We will be approaching some of our map advertisers to distribute chips for the run.

Inturn we hope that the sledders will drop some coin to help these businesses out.

Stay turned for more information coming out later this week.

[slomo]

A side note to advertising on the maps. Some maps contain a lot of contractor ads. I wonder if they get a map ad in lieu of payment for services rendered? This might be helpful to a local sledder, but I doubt Slomo is interested in buying a load of gravel from a guy in Eganville or Norland.

 

Interesting you should mention that. When I first settled in Parry Sound, not far from Bear Lake, which is close to Sprucedale, some local entity had a draw to raise money. Second prize was a load of gravel. I scoffed. It was not until I had to buy my first load of gravel for something that I realized that the load of 1/2 inch was worth about $300.00.

 

So, I'd take my load of gravel in Eganville or Norland, and maybe trade it to someone local for something more portable - maybe a rooster and some hens. I'd have fresh eggs for a couple of years and the occasional chicken dinner. Or something like that.

[SlowTouringGuy]

I took a ride through Bracebridge down to Gravenhurst and south of Gravenhurst today. Made a few stops at some local restaurants, and what I found was disgusting............................ I went in for a coffee and asked for a local trail guide. ...............................

 

 

SPARKPLUG ! ??

 

I posted a lengthy criticism of your initial post on Sunday night. The fact that you have gone silent since I posted validates, in my opinion, that your initial post was a bunch of Horsefeathers !

 

I call BS on your post. 

• I do not believe you “took a ride through Bracebridge down to Gravenhurst and south of Gravenhurst today. Made a few stops at some local restaurants” for the purpose you want readers to believe.
• I do not believe you had the conversation you reported in your post with owner “Bob” on Saturday.
• I do not believe you are a stranger to these businesses nor an independent observer conducting an unbiased “survey”.

I do believe:

• The purpose of your post was something other than what you wanted every reader to believe
• You have an agenda hidden from the readers and about which you have not been honest.
• You have inflamed readers for the purpose of penalizing four specific businesses in our Town
• I do believe that if what you posted about your “visit” to the first establishment is a bunch of Hooey, then it follows that the rest the aspersions you cast are nothing but the same.

 

For whatever reason you wrote what you did you have caused harm to businesses in Gravenhurst and, particularly in light of the fragile economy we have in this town, that is shameful conduct. It is clear from the map who bought ads – it is not clear from the map the names of some 35 eateries in our area that did not yet you took pains to specifically mention only 4 by name on a public forum with 3,240 members and Countless non-members viewing your concocted story.  Shame on You !

 

BUT………….  I might be wrong.  (?)   So Sparkplug, here is your chance to prove me wrong.  My challenge to you:

• Meet me in person outside the Frosty Pint.  I’ll wear a Red O.C. Hat with SlowTouringGuy on the side. Let’s see if you actually are, as you posted, a stranger passing through on a sled trail or someone I know.  Bring your camera.
• We’ll go in together and visit with owner “Bob”
• Let’s see whether he agrees that you visited last Saturday, had your casual cup of coffee, asked for a trail ‘guide’ (he may not have understood as 99 out of 100 snowmobilers still go to the Big Sled Show to collect ‘maps’), agrees the two of you had the conversation last Saturday as you posted, and that you are an independent observer because he has never known you before last Saturday; that is, you two have no previous history

 

If I am wrong, I’ll post that fact here and I will buy a Map Ad for the Gravenhurst eatery of your choice in the 2015 map.

 

If I am right, you will post that fact here, apologize to the readers of Ontario Conditions, and buy a 2015 map ad for each of the businesses you have penalized - Frosty Pint, Carey’s Irish Pub, Lakers and Boston Pizza. 

 

Either way, the club will benefit ! 

 

Well, SPARKPLUG, what do you have to say ?

[Redfisher]

Sh!t is getting real now.....

[bbakernbay]

Wow, this is getting similar to FreedomSledder posts.

 

Hey, nothing wrong with calling somebody if their post is not factual, especially if you're slamming some businesses, but as I always say "There is usually 3 sides to every story"

 

We'll have to watch for Sparkplug's response.

 

We've got 250 kms of trails with only two business, The Portage & Bent toys, actually on the NBSC trail system.

[AkronOrange]

Really?  Trails are being lost in the north for the same reason: not enough permit sales.  These are "Mom and Pop" clubs trying to make ends meet.  The OFSC has said "screw 'em" let them figure out a way to survive.  Sounds like we should do the same thing to these establishments that can't figure out how to survive.  If they can't support us; why should we support them?  What's worse with some of these establishments is; they have the luxury of having trails bring the ignorant masses to them with absolutely no appreciation for what all of us expends to visit that particular establishment. 

 

I recommend that no one support those that do not support us.  There are plenty of establishments that are struggling that do support snowmobiling.   

[SlowTouringGuy]

AO - I don't disagree with your approach at all. I agree we need to support those that support us.

I advocate that we celebrate those that support us. We should point out who they are and support them.

What I do not advocate is the BS slung by Sparky on some hidden agenda. We're a small town and dozens and dozens have their hands out for money. I don't know why theses four chose to support other things this year but the crock of crap that Sparky posted is not true. That's what has my back up. His post is full of hogwash and I'll stand by that until he proves me wrong.

But, for sure, you'll get no argument from me about supporting those that give back to the community.

[aar0n]

SPARKPLUG ! ??

I posted a lengthy criticism of your initial post on Sunday night. The fact that you have gone silent since I posted validates, in my opinion, that your initial post was a bunch of Horsefeathers !

I call BS on your post.

• I do not believe you “took a ride through Bracebridge down to Gravenhurst and south of Gravenhurst today. Made a few stops at some local restaurants” for the purpose you want readers to believe.
• I do not believe you had the conversation you reported in your post with owner “Bob” on Saturday.
• I do not believe you are a stranger to these businesses nor an independent observer conducting an unbiased “survey”.

I do believe:

• The purpose of your post was something other than what you wanted every reader to believe
• You have an agenda hidden from the readers and about which you have not been honest.
• You have inflamed readers for the purpose of penalizing four specific businesses in our Town
• I do believe that if what you posted about your “visit” to the first establishment is a bunch of Hooey, then it follows that the rest the aspersions you cast are nothing but the same.

For whatever reason you wrote what you did you have caused harm to businesses in Gravenhurst and, particularly in light of the fragile economy we have in this town, that is shameful conduct. It is clear from the map who bought ads – it is not clear from the map the names of some 35 eateries in our area that did not yet you took pains to specifically mention only 4 by name on a public forum with 3,240 members and Countless non-members viewing your concocted story. Shame on You !

BUT…………. I might be wrong. (?) So Sparkplug, here is your chance to prove me wrong. My challenge to you:

• Meet me in person outside the Frosty Pint. I’ll wear a Red O.C. Hat with SlowTouringGuy on the side. Let’s see if you actually are, as you posted, a stranger passing through on a sled trail or someone I know. Bring your camera.
• We’ll go in together and visit with owner “Bob”
• Let’s see whether he agrees that you visited last Saturday, had your casual cup of coffee, asked for a trail ‘guide’ (he may not have understood as 99 out of 100 snowmobilers still go to the Big Sled Show to collect ‘maps’), agrees the two of you had the conversation last Saturday as you posted, and that you are an independent observer because he has never known you before last Saturday; that is, you two have no previous history

If I am wrong, I’ll post that fact here and I will buy a Map Ad for the Gravenhurst eatery of your choice in the 2015 map.

If I am right, you will post that fact here, apologize to the readers of Ontario Conditions, and buy a 2015 map ad for each of the businesses you have penalized - Frosty Pint, Carey’s Irish Pub, Lakers and Boston Pizza.

Either way, the club will benefit !

Well, SPARKPLUG, what do you have to say ?

awesome!

[AkronOrange]

Thanks STG.  My comment was not to validate the accuracy of the original comment, it was more directed at those making excuses for the deadbeats.  If there are establishments exploiting our people and our sport, I say we ride right by, to an establishment which supports us.

[Wildbill]

Thanks STG.  My comment was not to validate the accuracy of the original comment, it was more directed at those making excuses for the deadbeats.  If there are establishments exploiting our people and our sport, I say we practice the ancient art of "dine and dash"! 

 Two wrongs don't make a right. 

[donkey]

so you advocate stealing from a business because they don't sponsor the local trail system?  make a statement with your money - if you don't like a restaurant not supporting the trails where you're riding, walk in to the place with your gear on, let the management calmly and respectfully know that you aren't eating there due to their non-sponsorship, and find somewhere that does.  if a business owner sees people walking out to go to the competition, you can damn well believe that in the future they'll be a little more receptive when the club comes looking for some funds.

[Viperules700]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Double no no! That would really give us snowmobilers a bad name. Besides who wants to be labelled as a thief for 75 bucks, not worth it at all. This has happened at gas pumps especially deerhursr resort.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

STG for president....................................or something!

[Canuck]

Trail Guide covers could be used to list supporters. At present, the guides (maps) have 'winter wonderland' images with a District Number.

 

If they had a list of service providers, gas stations, restaurants, hotels, etc. on the front cover-- it would be a ready reference. List by town or service, or both.

 

Advertisers would be front and centre.

 

____

 

As to the issue(s) at hand - don't forget that business support clubs 'in lieu' of map advertising. Our local gas station sells permits, provides space for our club sign, etc. They may not advertise, but do provide a service. 

[Redfisher]

 Two wrongs don't make a right. 

Unless you live in Florida... 

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Basically what STG is saying is that there are other ways to do what needs to be accomplished rather than publicising the issue without adequate information.

 

Maybe we need a sales force of volunteers....................

[Domino]

Support those that support us!

[4mysled]

The big question is after reading all this, how do we know as sledders riding into an area we are not familiar with who is a supporter of snowmobiling unless they are advertising on the maps. I try to support those who support us. If I am heading north for reasons other than sledding, I still try to support food establishments or gas stations, they may not know I am a sledder but at least I am supporting the local economy.

[Blake G]

Good point. Part of the pitch to prospective advertisers in the trail guides would be that if they purchase an ad, they will be recognized by users of the trail guides. Other ways of supporting sledding would hopefully be noticed in other ways.

[Panther340]

Okay here is a positive headsup to a Gas Station business in Echo Bay that supports OFSC and the local club, (I see advertisements and maps etc when you pay for your gas)

For those that drive thru the Sault and go east on TransCanada Hwy, (or if coming from east going to Sault/Wawa )  you used to have to drive thru Echo Bay. But the new fourlanes bypasses it by a mile or two since 2008 . So businesses like this one miss out.

But what is not so well known is that the old Highway 17 still exists and exits right back onto the fourlane Transcanada  a couple miles past Echo Bay. Of note : The old way is 3 kilometers SHORTER than the new four lanes , so even though you get to drive 100 kph the new way, by going the old more scenic way at 80 kph you only lose maybe two minutes , but you get to fill your truck with gas at the Echo Bay PIT STOP , where the gas prices are the same or less than the Sault and they pump your gas for you and provide employment for teenagers and a treat for your dog. ,….and support your trails, also snowmachines can  ride up to the pumps . Win win , oh and burger and coffee place next door and LCBO across the road. …and no I don’t work there, but want a gas station to always exist for our small town. So exit on 17 B for a change of pace.

[lastzrt]

REALLY ??

 

I find it interesting that this particular quote has been attributed by our club members to Boston Pizza for many Months now; Unbelievably Coincidental that this is now (specifically yesterday) being attributed word for word to another establishment.  Is this some sort of club miscommunication or did Boston Pizza have a Mind-Meld with Frosty? 

 

I find that it tests my limits of credulity to accept that “owner Bob” would say what he is accused of saying to a paying customer, obviously a sledder, and, purportedly, a complete stranger.  Seriously??  Why would any independent small business owner say something like that to a complete stranger? 

 

Is Carey’s Irish Pub Really of “the same attitude”?  The initial post doesn’t say that the poster went in there to hear it firsthand so is this hearsay from the same people that reported what Frosty allegedly said ?   Or did Carey’s Irish Pub not participate this year because they were bought out by another eatery in town and they are undergoing a business analysis to determine what should be most efficient in their operations?? 

 

I approached Frosty last month for advertising.  They, without pause, picked up a quarter page advertisement and the next day sent me an electronic file for publication.

 

The Gravenhurst Chamber lists some 37 eateries - that is not all-inclusive to the snowmobile club catchment area so the potential number is even greater - and it is interesting that only 2 of the 37 took ads with last year’s participants dropping out.  Why is that?   Did some 35 eateries decide that they did not need to advertise to improve their revenues?  Or did they not find the club map ad proposal a compelling Business Proposition ??  Perhaps they found other alternatives more attractive?  It's not like a Gravenhurst small business has unlimited funds.

 

I really don’t feel comfortable appearing to defend the above but there is always more than one side to the story; and am not defending any/all those that did not advertise on our club map, But I feel even More Uncomfortable that this thread is rendering Judgment against them by name in a public forum without the benefit of full disclosure and presentation of evidence for and against. 

 

I really do think that the topic of this thread is an interesting exchange of information.  In a generic form.  I enjoyed reading all of the posts thus far that are addressing the topic in an overarching manner.  Conceptually; how should we be supporting club supporters, what is considered a club supporter, do they have to buy a map ad, should we robotically book into a club supporter motel even if it is a bordello, should we try to be understanding to ‘buy in’ costs for small businesses vs franchises etc etc etc……..

 

BUT………..I am Appalled to see businesses identified by name in the above posts.  Without all the information and with some, I suspect, hearsay.  It is even more appalling to see the club executive enthusiastically participate in the public Flogging !   How is that going to endear us to the local business community ?   Re-visiting these businesses to ask support the Golf Tournament or the Map Ad or a Poker Run or a free/discount meal for trail workers or any other Club activity is going to be double the challenge now that they have been pilloried here for so many to see.  And, quite possibly, very unfairly.  If the alleged quotes are true, burning them as witches in a public forum does not help us build relationships and get them on back on board in the future.  If this is hearsay and some part of airing club dirty laundry then that also doesn't belong on here or we are going to have another “why did you fire the retired guy?” embarrassment found elsewhere on Mr.Interweb. 

2B – you should go to these businesses now and make peace or resign yourself to not seeing another penny from them for a long long time plus the ripple effect to other club revenues.  

 

I encourage continuing this thread on the subject of business partners to clubs.  Be they supporters by way of dollars through ads or other club activities or by way of subsidizing our costs.  

It is in every club’s interest to develop and cultivate partnerships.  Let’s continue this thread in that vein – let’s all learn from each other how to grow partnerships for the benefit of the club, for the benefit of the business entity and for the benefit of the local municipality.   

 

Good post! And I believe that is what GPK Rob was pointing out also. There are many ways to support the sport short of advertising on a map.

One should be careful to judge without all the facts.