what does the ofsc head office do?

[Spanky]

Well the AGM did that very thing last September in approving Framework for Change after a year of consultation with Districts and Clubs.

 

It was approved unanimously.

 

Get involved with your Club.

 

Our Club wasn't happy with the unfairness of the Classic Permit not having a 2 price system like Regular TP's.

 

We brought a Motion to the AGM to change it and it was approved unanimously and it is in effect this year.

 

I agree with Brian.  There are some new and fresh ideas being discussed here, but they won't happen with a mouse and keyboard.  Get involved with your club, find out when your District elections are and run for Governor.  You will be your Districts provincial representative and can be part of the change you are looking for. 

[SparkPlug]

I agree with Brian.  There are some new and fresh ideas being discussed here, but they won't happen with a mouse and keyboard.  Get involved with your club, find out when your District elections are and run for Governor.  You will be your Districts provincial representative and can be part of the change you are looking for. 

Until things change at the TOP at the OFSC Barrie office and the Governors stop rubber stamping everything the OFSC staff and Executive throw at them, things will not change. You say "be your Districts provincial representative"? Why is it then that what happens at the Governors meetings is confidential and most things are not to be shared with the Districts? Why are Governors not permitted to review Governor's meeting agendas with their District boards prior to a Governors meeting to get input from their District that elected them, to take that input to the Governors meetings? 

   I agree that their needs to be new blood around the Governors table but it needs to be people who are not afraid to truly represent each District and be allowed to present and make decisions based on input they receive from their District board. These collective decisions will then be the provincial decision. I can't believe the serious and costly mistakes that have been made in the last year or so at the Barrie office, and no one is being held accountable or shown the door by the Governors.

Lets see - - - - 

1) Groomer tracking system was sold to everyone as a safety item that would help with risk management. These units that don't work in several areas of the province cost about one million in permit dollars and have caused groomer fires

2) Trail changes on Interactive Guide have taken up to 4 months to be shown.

3) OFSC ran out of permits.

4) Online Reporting system for risk management and filing incidents is still down.

5) The permit tracking system update took from August until mid December to update and have available as it was supposedly down. Yet out of convenience the OFSC had it working long enough to send permit sales info to Districts on a need to know basis during this new time of online "only" permit ordering. Why?  

6) Membership preparing to vote for FFC at  AGM were told by OFSC staff, that the online permit ordering system was ready to go at the click of a button. Permit ordering online system was finally available when? Members at AGM were also told that MTO approval would be quick as the MTO had already reviewed FFC with the OFSC, and were just waiting on the membership decision. FFC or status quo. MTO was also present at AGM.

7) Go Snowmobile magazine promotes more of out of province riding more than it promotes riding in Ontario.

8) OFSC I believe has someone on payroll or at least expenses paid to work with the Provincial and Federal governments, yet the amount the province now contributes to snowmobiling has gone from 3 million to 1.5 million per year.

 

   I have been around snowmobiling in Ontario for decades and have paid close attention to the decline of our grass roots of snowmobiling and reasons why. I have followed chat forums such as Ontario Conditions as a guest, but recently felt I should partake and share my opinions and knowledge as others do. Some drastic changes need to be made in that office in Barrie starting at the TOP. 

[Classic]

Until things change at the TOP at the OFSC Barrie office and the Governors stop rubber stamping everything the OFSC staff and Executive throw at them, things will not change. You say "be your Districts provincial representative"? Why is it then that what happens at the Governors meetings is confidential and most things are not to be shared with the Districts? Why are Governors not permitted to review Governor's meeting agendas with their District boards prior to a Governors meeting to get input from their District that elected them, to take that input to the Governors meetings? 

   I agree that their needs to be new blood around the Governors table but it needs to be people who are not afraid to truly represent each District and be allowed to present and make decisions based on input they receive from their District board. These collective decisions will then be the provincial decision. I can't believe the serious and costly mistakes that have been made in the last year or so at the Barrie office, and no one is being held accountable or shown the door by the Governors.

Lets see - - - - 

1) Groomer tracking system was sold to everyone as a safety item that would help with risk management. These units that don't work in several areas of the province cost about one million in permit dollars and have caused groomer fires

2) Trail changes on Interactive Guide have taken up to 4 months to be shown.

3) OFSC ran out of permits.

4) Online Reporting system for risk management and filing incidents is still down.

5) The permit tracking system update took from August until mid December to update and have available as it was supposedly down. Yet out of convenience the OFSC had it working long enough to send permit sales info to Districts on a need to know basis during this new time of online "only" permit ordering. Why?  

6) Membership preparing to vote for FFC at  AGM were told by OFSC staff, that the online permit ordering system was ready to go at the click of a button. Permit ordering online system was finally available when? Members at AGM were also told that MTO approval would be quick as the MTO had already reviewed FFC with the OFSC, and were just waiting on the membership decision. FFC or status quo. MTO was also present at AGM.

7) Go Snowmobile magazine promotes more of out of province riding more than it promotes riding in Ontario.

8) OFSC I believe has someone on payroll or at least expenses paid to work with the Provincial and Federal governments, yet the amount the province now contributes to snowmobiling has gone from 3 million to 1.5 million per year.

 

   I have been around snowmobiling in Ontario for decades and have paid close attention to the decline of our grass roots of snowmobiling and reasons why. I have followed chat forums such as Ontario Conditions as a guest, but recently felt I should partake and share my opinions and knowledge as others do. Some drastic changes need to be made in that office in Barrie starting at the TOP. 

All the more reason to be your district Gov. Then you can change everything in Barrie to suit you.The gov's job is not to sit there and demand everything for their district. They have to have a provincial outlook.

[Spanky]

Until things change at the TOP at the OFSC Barrie office and the Governors stop rubber stamping everything the OFSC staff and Executive throw at them, things will not change.

 

Some drastic changes need to be made in that office in Barrie starting at the TOP. 

And the way to change things at the TOP is???  You have made some valid points in your post, how do you think this change will occur?  Run for Governor and do it!

[Doogirl69]

All the more reason to be your district Gov. Then you can change everything in Barrie to suit you.The gov's job is not to sit there and demand everything for their district. They have to have a provincial outlook.

 

There needs to be a "term" like 2 or 4 years that a Gov. can hold the position.

 

Most of the dead wood there has been there too long creating the old Boy's Club. 

 

Also each District should have the SAME amount of votes at the AGM. It shouldn't go by how many Clubs are in the District.

 

jmo

 

BTW, how many permits were sold by December 1st?

 

They talked about how many permits were sold before November 1st to the World and Media. Why is this number a secret? 

[sledjunk]

Telling someone to volunteer to be governor is like telling a regular voter that the only way their opinion matters is if they run for office.

 

Sparkplug has many valid points and they should not be discounted until he is a governor.  I also have an issue with a governor holding any executive position in their club.  They are there to represent all of the clubs in their district without any appearance of conflict of interest or preference.

 

While I agree that discussions on a forum will not necessarily bring change, there are many ideas that have come up here and have been pooh poohed, only to be implemented.  

[Spanky]

Telling someone to volunteer to be governor is like telling a regular voter that the only way their opinion matters is if they run for office.

 

Sparkplug has many valid points and they should not be discounted until he is a governor.  I also have an issue with a governor holding any executive position in their club.  They are there to represent all of the clubs in their district without any appearance of conflict of interest or preference.

 

While I agree that discussions on a forum will not necessarily bring change, there are many ideas that have come up here and have been pooh poohed, only to be implemented.  

Nobody is discounting Sparkplug's points unless he becomes a Governor, in fact quite the opposite.  He has some fresh ideas that he feels strongly about, and the way to facilitate change is to do something about it. 

 

A passive attitude is the reason why we have the politicians and government we have today...

[02Sled]

There needs to be a "term" like 2 or 4 years that a Gov. can hold the position.

 

Most of the dead wood there has been there too long creating the old Boy's Club. 

 

Also each District should have the SAME amount of votes at the AGM. It shouldn't go by how many Clubs are in the District.

 

jmo

 

BTW, how many permits were sold by December 1st?

 

They talked about how many permits were sold before November 1st to the World and Media. Why is this number a secret? 

 

Don't know that it is a secret but the Nov 1 was really easy. A computerized report after a couple of mouse clicks or key strokes. For Dec 1 permit sales we now rely on all the individual clubs to get out to their permit sellers and pick up the money etc. do their compilations and report that up to their district and then the district to compile their totals and report those numbers up to OFSC. All a manual process done for the most part by volunteers. Now that the Christmas holiday season when some district offices were actually closed for about a week or just over is done I would expect all those numbers have finally been sent up the line and likely available now.

[snowdancer]

I am going to add my 2 cents worth and try not to slam anyone. I too have been around for a while and have seen the slow and painful demise of the volunteer organization we had. There are some extremely valid points made by many.

1) getting involved and running for Governor is easier said than done. There is an old boys club at club level, and then again at District level and if someone along the line doesn't like the fact that you know what you are talking about or maybe sound too radical.... good luck getting elected.

2) once elected, the Governor does have to think for the good of the province but should be allowed to present the Districts concerns for discussion.... pretty sure that's not happening a lot right now. Governors cannot make good decisions because they are not given enough info to discuss the issue. All reports are whitewashed before the meetings and too much info is not allowed because as the exec put it.... the Governors don't have time or we don't want to confuse them with that info. And they certainly don't want anyone to attend the meetings to explain the facts.

3) a Governor should be in place for a minimum of 4 years, 2 to learn what it's all about and the at least 2 to try and do something constructive.

4) if you don't think like the office, the governor is squeezed out. Especially if they wish to be on the Executive. There is a huge amount of back room planning and full board's are planned out and elected in. Don't rock the boat or try to change anything that the Exec. and staff don't want changed or you will find yourself out of your position on the board and out of any committee. I believe in grooming the next President but there is no way anyone that is not a favoured one will get elected.

5) The FFC is a start however I don't think it's going far enough.

 

A couple of years ago I discussed what was happening with the then President and some of the board, they agreed that the organization was going to implode.

 

A full outside review of the organization needs to be done again. It was done a few years ago but unfortunately only bits and pieces were taken from the recommendations and twisted to suit the current board and staff. The way it stands no one can replace some of the staff as they report ONLY to the President as a result of that last review and report. No one wants to take money off the snow to do this and I understand that, however at what point do the volunteers and members say ENOUGH. The money being wasted on Interactive mapping, GPS etc etc is ridiculous. Someone should ask how much was spent on the prior mapping on the website before the Interactive came about. It would scare you.

 At this point they need to get someone from outside the organization that has NO background in snowmobiling, no ties to it all and no bias that knows how to run a business to do an evaluation of the way the business could be run. Major corporations do this all the time and it is startling how obvious it is and scary how no one thought of those changes before. We are too close to the problem now to fix it!!

 

Go ahead and tell me to stand up and volunteer, work a club, etc.   I've done it and in case you can't tell I have a big mouth and no one likes to hear the truth or make the hard decisions so I was unpopular at club level and you do have to start there. I made an attempt but had to step back and stop banging my head on the wall. Life is too short.

JMO

[sledjunk]

Well said!

[Redfisher]

great post ^

[LuvMyViper]

A passive attitude is the reason why we have the politicians and government we have today...

 

What Canadian Organization having a little more than 300 employees is guilty of these statistics?

 

30 have been accused of spousal abuse.

9 have been arrested for fraud.

14 have been accused of writing bad cheques.

95 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses.

4 have done time for assault.

55 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit.

12 have been arrested on drug related charges.

4 have been arrested for shoplifting.

16 are currently defendants in lawsuits.

62 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year!

Can you guess which organization this is?

It is the 301 (MP's) Members of Parliament that form the Federal Government of Canada. The same group that cranks out hundreds of new laws designed to keep the rest of us in line!

[revrnd]

 

The same group that cranks out hundreds of new laws designed to keep the rest of us in line!

 

Do as I say, not as I do.

[02Sled]

.

The money being wasted on Interactive mapping, GPS etc etc is ridiculous. Someone should ask how much was spent on the prior mapping on the website before the Interactive came about. It would scare you.

 

I disagree and know a whole lot of people who would disagree also. Old days when you wanted to ride and know the conditions you saw a report that said

 

C trail from 303 to 306 open,

C trail from 306 to 310 limited

310 closed

and so on.

 

Yup... that tells me a whole lot of nothing. Then I have to dig out a map and start trying to put together the best possible route that I can. Tracking down the map to find out ooops this goes to a trail that is closed.... let's back up to the last intersection. Okay lets take 305... oh well when you get to 303A it is in really poor shape.

 

I can go online and in a matter of minutes get a perception of a route that would be in good shape, find out the length of the trail with a click of the mouse which will give me an idea of how long it will take to travel, add it to my route and then print out the map of the route I want to ride.

 

Waste to you... perhaps to me and lots of others... worth every penny. We are in the information age. This is the type of thing that is needed to stay relevant to people who buy the permits.

 

I have said it before. There is far too much of the we did it this way 30 years ago. It worked then and it works now. We need to keep up.

[slomo]

 

I can go online and in a matter of minutes get a perception of a route that would be in good shape, find out the length of the trail with a click of the mouse which will give me an idea of how long it will take to travel, add it to my route and then print out the map of the route I want to ride.

 

Waste to you... perhaps to me and lots of others... worth every penny. We are in the information age. This is the type of thing that is needed to stay relevant to people who buy the permit.

Concur. I would not be sledding except for the interactive map. I think the original bringer-upper of the map costs was referring to the total cost of eventually getting the map going or at least that's how I read it. Kind of like that Quebec firm that was building the Obabacare webs site.

[Wildbill]

Interactive map is good the idea of the gps in the groomers is a good idea badly executed. 

[Spanky]

 

What Canadian Organization having a little more than 300 employees is guilty of these statistics?

 

30 have been accused of spousal abuse.

9 have been arrested for fraud.

14 have been accused of writing bad cheques.

95 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses.

4 have done time for assault.

55 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit.

12 have been arrested on drug related charges.

4 have been arrested for shoplifting.

16 are currently defendants in lawsuits.

62 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year!

Can you guess which organization this is?

It is the 301 (MP's) Members of Parliament that form the Federal Government of Canada. The same group that cranks out hundreds of new laws designed to keep the rest of us in line!

 

Well said!  And the only way it will get better is if we do something about it.

[Spanky]

I disagree and know a whole lot of people who would disagree also. Old days when you wanted to ride and know the conditions you saw a report that said

 

C trail from 303 to 306 open,

C trail from 306 to 310 limited

310 closed

and so on.

 

Yup... that tells me a whole lot of nothing. Then I have to dig out a map and start trying to put together the best possible route that I can. Tracking down the map to find out ooops this goes to a trail that is closed.... let's back up to the last intersection. Okay lets take 305... oh well when you get to 303A it is in really poor shape.

 

I can go online and in a matter of minutes get a perception of a route that would be in good shape, find out the length of the trail with a click of the mouse which will give me an idea of how long it will take to travel, add it to my route and then print out the map of the route I want to ride.

 

Waste to you... perhaps to me and lots of others... worth every penny. We are in the information age. This is the type of thing that is needed to stay relevant to people who buy the permits.

 

I have said it before. There is far too much of the we did it this way 30 years ago. It worked then and it works now. We need to keep up.

Well said.

[Nutter]

I have a couple of corrections to add to this thread ..... 

 

1. Governors cannot be squeezed out or selected by The Executive Committee (Prez, VP, 2ndVP and Secretary Treasurer) or staff as they are elected by their districts clubs, the only way they can be put in that position or removed is by vote of their dist membership. 

 

2. The so called "old boys club" at the governors table, is currently very far from that.  Out of 16 Gov's there is currently 10 new Gov's sitting at that table. Dist's 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 14 and 17 all have Gov's sitting at that table that have been there 2 or less years.

 

In saying this it's up to each individual dist to realize when their Gov is no longer being effective in that position and for them to vote for someone new for that position. There truly is no one to blame other then us the volunteering permit buyer for who holds those positions and what directions they take. 

[Wildbill]

I have a couple of corrections to add to this thread ..... 

 

1. Governors cannot be squeezed out or selected by The Executive Committee (Prez, VP, 2ndVP and Secretary Treasurer) or staff as they are elected by their districts clubs, the only way they can be put in that position or removed is by vote of their dist membership. 

 

2. The so called "old boys club" at the governors table, is currently very far from that.  Out of 16 Gov's there is currently 10 new Gov's sitting at that table. Dist's 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 14 and 17 all have Gov's sitting at that table that have been there 2 or less years.

 

In saying this it's up to each individual dist to realize when their Gov is no longer being effective in that position and for them to vote for someone new for that position. There truly is no one to blame other then us the volunteering permit buyer for who holds those positions and what directions they take. 

 The sad truth is that is often not a big competion for the position too often it is acclaimed 

[bbakernbay]

My previous point was that 'Change' is possible, sometimes difficult, sometimes a little easier but that is the least of our worries.

 

SparkPlug's analysis of those 8 issues is absolutely bang-on.

 

Execution of good ideas, especially involving technology, has been sadly lacking for various reasons.

 

Groomer GPS installation & operation with no safety call that was indicated as being one of the primary reasons to adopt is still an ongoing problem, especially if groomers are catching fire as a consequence of bad wiring.

 

PTS and ORS not functioning as they should and must.

 

OFSC website down for rebuild for lengthy period.

 

I don't really follow Trail Conditions so no comment on that.

 

Online Permit sales had a delayed start and stumbled along the way.

 

Government liaison has not produced desired results; i.e. more funding especially from Feds, decreased provincial $$ and no changes to MVSA regarding riding without TP's,, etc.

 

Districts/Clubs scrambling for Trail Permits to sell.

 

The snowmobilers, Clubs and Districts are not in a position to fix most of these issues, these are Head Office functions that are not getting done for various reasons.

 

The District Governors are empowered to make decisions on these pressing matters and determine what and why certain issues have not been properly and then to determine what needs to be done, i.e. more funding, better staff & contractors, etc.

 

It is painfully obvious that there are too many projects that have been undertaken that have not been executed smoothly.

 

I really feel for those at OFSC H.O. because the time window is short for our season and everything needs to come together or the season is over before it is fixed.

 

Most of us complain about government and praise the private sector as the savior, well look at our Sentinel GPS Groomer Tracking System, Online Permit Sales, etc. both contracted out and not good execution although Online Permit Sales gets a passing grade as it was the first year and it was hurried..

 

It seems we have too many balls in the air at once and don't have the capability to juggle that many so I think we need to strategically choose our priorities so we can deliver on those before we move on to the next.

 

IMHO the District Governors are the only ones that can bring change to these issues.

[Wildbill]

the 3 and seven day passes are bot yet available online

[Greggie]

 At this point they need to get someone from outside the organization that has NO background in snowmobiling, no ties to it all and no bias that knows how to run a business to do an evaluation of the way the business could be run. Major corporations do this all the time and it is startling how obvious it is and scary how no one thought of those changes before. We are too close to the problem now to fix it!!

 

To take someone from outside snowmobiling, not sure if that is the solution. If you want to run the OFSC as a business, what is important?

- to keep as much trails open all over the province

Or

- to close trails where isn't enough use and don't have enough local permit sales.

Reality is that we run as OFSC shy on money because we don't have enough money from permit sales, the government grant we get can not be spend how we like to spend it and overall the government isn't much supporting snowmobiling. Said that, we need to be very frugal to keep what we have running. Also I agree, we are losing money on "trail work" what wasn't necessary, mistakes at the OFSC office and mistakes at clubs. As example is a $10,000 land owners supper for club A necessary? Failing groomers all over the province without trying to find solutions. As said the GPS in the groomers.

I hope with the new governors that they will do a better job and they they are acting fast where need to be done. Blaming is easy, to do a better job isn't that easy but we need to change how we run as club, district and OFSC office.

Thanks,

Greg

[Greggie]

My previous point was that 'Change' is possible, sometimes difficult, sometimes a little easier but that is the least of our worries.

 

SparkPlug's analysis of those 8 issues is absolutely bang-on.

 

Execution of good ideas, especially involving technology, has been sadly lacking for various reasons.

 

Groomer GPS installation & operation with no safety call that was indicated as being one of the primary reasons to adopt is still an ongoing problem, especially if groomers are catching fire as a consequence of bad wiring.

 

PTS and ORS not functioning as they should and must.

 

OFSC website down for rebuild for lengthy period.

 

I don't really follow Trail Conditions so no comment on that.

 

Online Permit sales had a delayed start and stumbled along the way.

 

Government liaison has not produced desired results; i.e. more funding especially from Feds, decreased provincial $$ and no changes to MVSA regarding riding without TP's,, etc.

 

Districts/Clubs scrambling for Trail Permits to sell.

 

The snowmobilers, Clubs and Districts are not in a position to fix most of these issues, these are Head Office functions that are not getting done for various reasons.

 

The District Governors are empowered to make decisions on these pressing matters and determine what and why certain issues have not been properly and then to determine what needs to be done, i.e. more funding, better staff & contractors, etc.

 

It is painfully obvious that there are too many projects that have been undertaken that have not been executed smoothly.

 

I really feel for those at OFSC H.O. because the time window is short for our season and everything needs to come together or the season is over before it is fixed.

 

Most of us complain about government and praise the private sector as the savior, well look at our Sentinel GPS Groomer Tracking System, Online Permit Sales, etc. both contracted out and not good execution although Online Permit Sales gets a passing grade as it was the first year and it was hurried..

 

It seems we have too many balls in the air at once and don't have the capability to juggle that many so I think we need to strategically choose our priorities so we can deliver on those before we move on to the next.

 

IMHO the District Governors are the only ones that can bring change to these issues.

A lot of good comments, want to bring up another.

As example the online permit sales is now on for 3 years, and I have never seen a RFP to find a contractor who can handle this is a expectable time. I think the permit need to be on the mail in 3 working days. That late sending out of permits is going on now for three years. Something has to change here.

Also in most other projects, I have never seen a RFP. Also in the RFP need to be addressed what the sanctions are if it isn't working.

How can the OFSC get a contact to a private company without an RFP?

Thanks,

Greg

[snowdancer]

I have a couple of corrections to add to this thread ..... 

 

1. Governors cannot be squeezed out or selected by The Executive Committee (Prez, VP, 2ndVP and Secretary Treasurer) or staff as they are elected by their districts clubs, the only way they can be put in that position or removed is by vote of their dist membership. 

 

2. The so called "old boys club" at the governors table, is currently very far from that.  Out of 16 Gov's there is currently 10 new Gov's sitting at that table. Dist's 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 14 and 17 all have Gov's sitting at that table that have been there 2 or less years.

 

In saying this it's up to each individual dist to realize when their Gov is no longer being effective in that position and for them to vote for someone new for that position. There truly is no one to blame other then us the volunteering permit buyer for who holds those positions and what directions they take. 

Just to clarify a bit.  When a sitting Governor decides to run for Exec. they might get elected in but in doing so give up their position as Governor. Then a year later if they dont' fit the mold or are too vocal, their and the back room politicking has them elected. That leaves the original Governor with no position and is hung out to dry.

I may be wrong but I do believe that the Governors from Districts 4,6 and 10 have been in the position for more than 2 yrs. which is a good thing as you need some experience on the board. The good old boys club I referred to originally was at club/district level.

 

To add to my original post, the OFSC office has way too much on their plate and are doing more committee work than they should. As an example, this past weekend was the Yearly Strategic Planning session where Governors do a review of the past year to see if plans to meet the current Vision  are being met and if not, why not and what can be done to meet those expectations. Budgets are made based on that session for all areas of the organization except for Trails. In past, Committee chairs were invited to contribute to the conversation and answer questions. For the past 2 years that has not happened. No input has been requested from the committees at all for their respective programs. This used to be a volunteer organization. Dont' think that is the case anymore. They used to be "Committee of the the Board" but I think it's been a long time since any direction has been given by the Board. Even giving awards to Volunteers was questioned by the staff as to the value.

In fact, a task force to evaluate the committee value is being done to see if they are even necessary to the organization is being done. Writing is on the wall people. Staff will soon be doing all the program work.... if there are any programs!!

 Committee members and chairs are dropping like flies. There must be a reason!! or are the inmates running the asylum???

I know that this is not a popular thought but it is the truth.

So glad I'm out of it but it breaks my heart!!