Cochrane

[RAMSOMAIR]

That’s correct. It has all been recommended to this point and nobody gives a crap about and we are not seeing numbers go down. Next step will be the “requirement” which is coming. Do you not think it would be easier to just abide by the recommendations and then we wouldn’t be forced into requirements? Just asking 

[stoney]

6 minutes ago, Ox said:

Stony:

 

Go back and read his first paragraph - slowly...

 

 

 

02:

 

You should just tell her that you are almost as paranoid as she is.

LOL....thanks.

Correct, I missed the last part  !

[stoney]

4 minutes ago, RAMSOMAIR said:

That’s correct. It has all been recommended to this point and nobody gives a crap about and we are not seeing numbers go down. Next step will be the “requirement” which is coming. Do you not think it would be easier to just abide by the recommendations and then we wouldn’t be forced into requirements? Just asking 

I do not think it is required at all and the approach thus far is poke and hope with no concrete info to suggest it will work or continue to work after a lock down is lifted, so what is the point other than to appease nonsense.

I can see based on Ontario data that we can all see, death was high in first lock down.

Deaths dropped in the summer when lock down was cancelled & warmer weather.

Deaths & positive cases went up again in Nov when locks downs started again and weather turned colder.....and historically, deaths and hospitalization has always been higher during this time frame, this is nothing new or a Covid only thing.

 

People infected mean little as the testing is so stringent that it is picking up many other things and people that are positive, majority of those people carry on just fine or sick in a bed for a week with flu like symptoms, but what is important is keep those at greater risk away from possible infectious people to mitigate what we all want to see less of - the elderly or those on the high risk bracket from dying.

The number of Covid deaths really do not mean a lot either because they are looping ALL deaths to Covid if a persons that has died, that than tested positive for Covid, is a Covid death, even if the person had Cancer, other issues, etc......not related to Covid that was the true reason for their death - what is the purpose of this other than to fuel the plandemic. 

 

We can talk about still allowing people to leave and come into the country, people allowing to vacation out of country, politicians, etc......while the lock down is in place - that again makes perfect sense, right?!?!

 

 

[Blake G]

1 hour ago, 02Sled said:

for the first time in a long time I heard the woman yelling from her front door that I'm going to kill people and that I need to go home and stay inside. I haven't heard her rant in months.

Now we know she's alive and breathing well.

[Dave K]

On 1/11/2021 at 3:01 PM, stoney said:

The number of Covid deaths really do not mean a lot either because they are looping ALL deaths to Covid if a persons that has died, that than tested positive for Covid, is a Covid death, even if the person had Cancer, other issues, etc

My dad passed away 2 years ago.  If that had been today, he would definitely be counted as a Covid related death.  His body, and his lungs were done. He was 83.  He had trouble breathing his last night alive.  I don't believe all the deaths are Covid caused.  There is a big difference between caused and related

[scottyr]

The question that has to be asked if if they didnt have COVID would they have died?    Was it COVID that pushed them over the edge?  

[Poo Man]

My uncle passed away 2 nights ago due to pneumonia but negative for covid. He was not counted in the death toll. No clue why so many people think this is happening. Believing everything they read on Facebook I guess.

[Poo Man]

8 minutes ago, scottyr said:

The question that has to be asked if if they didnt have COVID would they have died?    Was it COVID that pushed them over the edge?  

Problem with the internet now is everyone thinks their a virologist or immunologist. 

[revrnd]

2 hours ago, Poo Man said:

My uncle passed away 2 nights ago due to pneumonia but negative for covid. He was not counted in the death toll. No clue why so many people think this is happening. Believing everything they read on Facebook I guess.

'I read it on the internet so it has to be true!'

[RAMSOMAIR]

2 hours ago, Poo Man said:

My uncle passed away 2 nights ago due to pneumonia but negative for covid. He was not counted in the death toll. No clue why so many people think this is happening. Believing everything they read on Facebook I guess.

I agree with you, Too many people with diarrhea of the mouth and off on a tangent.

[stoney]

5 hours ago, Poo Man said:

My uncle passed away 2 nights ago due to pneumonia but negative for covid. He was not counted in the death toll. No clue why so many people think this is happening. Believing everything they read on Facebook I guess.

This is what the was being stated by the government in their earlier disclaimers with C-19 numbers, not some made up story or a faceplant post.

I know 100% that I read it more than once, I do not see it being listed as a disclaimer any more though.....

 

edit: given that he was a negative test, he would not be considered a C-19 death, it is the folks that were tested as positive that are part of C-19 deaths, even if it was cancer or some other sickness that really caused their death.

 

5 hours ago, Dave K said:

My dad passed away 2 years ago.  If that had been today, he would definitely be counted as a Covid related death.  His body, and his lungs were done. He was 83.  He had trouble breathing his last night alive.  I don't believe all the deaths are Covid caused.  There is a big difference between caused and related

Same for me, but my mother and it was Oct 2019.....mentioned it before on anther post and if she had lasted a few more months, she would have likely been listed as a C-19 death, but it was cancer that took her life.

Edited January 13, 2021 by stoney

[Poo Man]

4 minutes ago, stoney said:

cancer or some other sickness that really caused their death.

If you are receiving chemo with a good chance of surviving your cancer, but have a weakened immune system due to it, then get covid and die because of it covid is absolutely the reason you died. 

[stoney]

3 minutes ago, Poo Man said:

If you are receiving chemo with a good chance of surviving your cancer, but have a weakened immune system due to it, then get covid and die because of it covid is absolutely the reason you died. 

Yes, I agree, but I believe rather than someone spend the time or effort to say it was this or that, if C-19 was positive, it is a C-19 death regardless, that IMO skews the numbers that are being used to make decisions.

Like I said, this was listed earlier on as a "**disclaimer" in a bunch of earlier notifications.

At the end of the day, someone died, it really sucks and no one wants that outcome, but shouldn't be used as tool. 

[02Sled]

14 hours ago, stoney said:

This is what the was being stated by the government in their earlier disclaimers with C-19 numbers, not some made up story or a faceplant post.

I know 100% that I read it more than once, I do not see it being listed as a disclaimer any more though.....

 

edit: given that he was a negative test, he would not be considered a C-19 death, it is the folks that were tested as positive that are part of C-19 deaths, even if it was cancer or some other sickness that really caused their death.

 

Same for me, but my mother and it was Oct 2019.....mentioned it before on anther post and if she had lasted a few more months, she would have likely been listed as a C-19 death, but it was cancer that took her life.

One of the people I see in the park with his dog when I take our dog out for his afternoon walk is a Coroner. He signs death certificates. I believe I will ask him when I see him this afternoon what his take is on the numbers. Something tells me that those numbers don't include everyone who has died in Ontario. They may have pre-existing conditions that are manageable and they are living with but COVID was what pushed them over the line.  

[Dave K]

14 hours ago, Poo Man said:

If you are receiving chemo with a good chance of surviving your cancer, but have a weakened immune system due to it, then get covid and die because of it covid is absolutely the reason you died. 

On that same thinking, if you didn't have Cancer, you would have survived COVID.  Blame it as a cancer death then???

[Ox]

15 hours ago, stoney said:

Yes, I agree, but I believe rather than someone spend the time or effort to say it was this or that, if C-19 was positive, it is a C-19 death regardless, that IMO skews the numbers that are being used to make decisions.

Like I said, this was listed earlier on as a "**disclaimer" in a bunch of earlier notifications.

At the end of the day, someone died, it really sucks and no one wants that outcome, but shouldn't be used as tool. 

Huh, well I guess it's not just the US eh?

 

You see, Mrs. Ox went to some insurance seminar a cpl years ago, and one of the statements made there aboot the health care costs for Yanks was:

 

"Only in the US is death an "option"."

 

B/c we (as a whole) will invest huge sums of $ into staying alive, even if it's not a life worth living.

 

I personally want no part in that.

 

 

[02Sled]

13 minutes ago, Ox said:

Huh, well I guess it's not just the US eh?

 

You see, Mrs. Ox went to some insurance seminar a cpl years ago, and one of the statements made there aboot the health care costs for Yanks was:

 

"Only in the US is death an "option"."

 

B/c we (as a whole) will invest huge sums of $ into staying alive, even if it's not a life worth living.

 

I personally want no part in that.

 

 

Same here... If I get to the point where my existence is in a hospital bed and that's it... let me go peacefully.

[stoney]

1 hour ago, 02Sled said:

One of the people I see in the park with his dog when I take our dog out for his afternoon walk is a Coroner. He signs death certificates. I believe I will ask him when I see him this afternoon what his take is on the numbers. Something tells me that those numbers don't include everyone who has died in Ontario. They may have pre-existing conditions that are manageable and they are living with but COVID was what pushed them over the line.  

Would be interesting to see what is known at that level.

On the bold, I was not suggesting all deaths are grouped into the Covid numbers, assuming that is what you meant by that, just that a death is a Covid death IF The person is positive, regardless of underlining issues they have, which I think is conveniently being used as a tool right now to support an agenda that is not making sense.

[Spiderman]

2 hours ago, 02Sled said:

One of the people I see in the park with his dog when I take our dog out for his afternoon walk is a Coroner. He signs death certificates. I believe I will ask him when I see him this afternoon what his take is on the numbers. Something tells me that those numbers don't include everyone who has died in Ontario. They may have pre-existing conditions that are manageable and they are living with but COVID was what pushed them over the line.  

you don't need to ask him, the Government is clear in print the criteria.

The FACT is they have no way to know how many people have died FROM Covid. They aren't investigating it and haven't a clue - they are marking down any death where the person has Covid as Covid - cause matters not.

 

That's the criteria - I showed you that in the other thread that you ignored.........

 

 

[Spiderman]

48 minutes ago, stoney said:

Would be interesting to see what is known at that level.

On the bold, I was not suggesting all deaths are grouped into the Covid numbers, assuming that is what you meant by that, just that a death is a Covid death IF The person is positive, regardless of underlining issues they have, which I think is conveniently being used as a tool right now to support an agenda that is not making sense.

100% correct - factual 

[02Sled]

1 hour ago, Spiderman said:

you don't need to ask him, the Government is clear in print the criteria.

The FACT is they have no way to know how many people have died FROM Covid. They aren't investigating it and haven't a clue - they are marking down any death where the person has Covid as Covid - cause matters not.

 

That's the criteria - I showed you that in the other thread that you ignored.........

 

 

If the person has COVID and dies it is very likely, almost certain that the virus is what caused their death. The person who has a heart condition but is able to live with that heart condition and has done so for many years catches the virus. That person dies because the virus pushes the persons health and ability to deal with that heart condition beyond what their body can handle. Did they die as a result of the virus? I say yes. If not for the virus they would still be alive.

 

I had a conversation with my friend a couple of weeks ago around cause of death for a person. They had a fall about a month earlier and there were health implications in the recovery from that fall but the person was recovering nicely. The person contracted the virus that resulted in a turn around in the recovery and the person passed. What would you say was the cause of death. If not for the virus the person would have fully recovered from the fall.  

[Spiderman]

12 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

If the person has COVID and dies it is very likely, almost certain that the virus is what caused their death. The person who has a heart condition but is able to live with that heart condition and has done so for many years catches the virus. That person dies because the virus pushes the persons health and ability to deal with that heart condition beyond what their body can handle. Did they die as a result of the virus? I say yes. If not for the virus they would still be alive.

 

I had a conversation with my friend a couple of weeks ago around cause of death for a person. They had a fall about a month earlier and there were health implications in the recovery from that fall but the person was recovering nicely. The person contracted the virus that resulted in a turn around in the recovery and the person passed. What would you say was the cause of death. If not for the virus the person would have fully recovered from the fall.  

It doesn't matter what I "think", no doctor would draw that conclusion in writing without actual physical proof. That you can guarantee.

As an fyi - which I am sure you know, they aren't investigating if Covid had any causation in the deaths - hence the language being use and simple note the "case had covid".

 

 

 

 

[02Sled]

1 hour ago, Spiderman said:

It doesn't matter what I "think", no doctor would draw that conclusion in writing without actual physical proof. That you can guarantee.

As an fyi - which I am sure you know, they aren't investigating if Covid had any causation in the deaths - hence the language being use and simple note the "case had covid".

Just got back from our daily trip to the park with the dog. Met up with our Coroner friend and his dog. He tells me that if he is specifying cause of death for someone with a heart condition that was stable but died of heart failure and had COVID he would state the cause of death as being the heart (one of the many tongue tying conditions) but exacerbated due to COVID.

[Spiderman]

2 hours ago, 02Sled said:

Just got back from our daily trip to the park with the dog. Met up with our Coroner friend and his dog. He tells me that if he is specifying cause of death for someone with a heart condition that was stable but died of heart failure and had COVID he would state the cause of death as being the heart (one of the many tongue tying conditions) but exacerbated due to COVID.

People have life insurance, doctors have a job to do, expectation is they do it proper, cause has an affect.