catinental couch Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 2 hours ago, FrostyTheSnowman said: Cats C-Tech2 absolutely requires 91 which I also purchase my sled fuel at shell. It also says in the owners manual that 87 can be run if no other fuel is available in emergency. I would say that it's the drivers responsibility to not push the unit to its max all the time until premium can be attained again. I bet most manufacturers sleds can run on any fuel and the knock sensor will do its job and retard timing. I'd just take it easier on my sled if I was in a pinch with only 87 Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted December 11, 2016 Author Share Posted December 11, 2016 21 hours ago, Denis007 said: Tricky, if you get your fuel from a reputable brand dealer that sees a reasonable amount of clientelle, their fuel won't go bad from sitting. If you're really worried about the fuel station you may be stuck at, put premium as a precaution. Otherwise use regular. Ethanol 87 is totally acceptable and will never be a warranty concern. You couldn't blow up a 900 unless you really tried to on purpose. They're bulletproof. Put 87 in it, add stabilizer if it sits more than a month or for storage, change your oil and grease the suspension at the end of the season. 'Nuff said. thanks Dennis that makes sense, but if regular isn't moving at a particular station then what kind of shape will 91 be in? I always wonder after motorcycle season, does 91 stuff just sit in the tank for a few months, until sledding season starts? No one else seems to use it, especially in smaller northern towns. I could only find two grease fittings on the whole sled? Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techdenis007 Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 38 minutes ago, Viperules700 said: thanks Dennis that makes sense, but if regular isn't moving at a particular station then what kind of shape will 91 be in? I always wonder after motorcycle season, does 91 stuff just sit in the tank for a few months, until sledding season starts? No one else seems to use it, especially in smaller northern towns. I could only find two grease fittings on the whole sled? Am I missing something? I've always wondered about 91 sitting around too. That's why I refuse to mod my sled beyond the limits of 87. 2 fittings on the lower rear arms, that might be all ... which model exactly ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowchopper Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 From my experience there are two grease fittings on a 120 inch skid and three on a 137 inch skid. The new 129 probably have only two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 17 hours ago, tireless said: pure- gas . org has a list of stations in Canada and USA that are e-free Their site is so out of date, I'd trust the government to spend my tax dollars wisely before I believe what it says. All you need to know buying fuel is this. Ontario/Canadian law says all 87 grade fuel for road use must be E10. There is a winter time exception for some northern areas. And Shell is the only one who clearly says thier 91 fuel is E free. Even the native gas stations can't get E-free fuel anymore in Ontario like they could a few years back. So don't belive their signs out front anymore as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyTheSnowman Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Isn't ultra 94 e free as well at PetroCan? Someone also sells 92, Sunoco I "think". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhz06 Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 94 has ethanol, thats what they use to increase their octane rating. Used to be the best fuel but now its junk, worse than 91 ethanol free. Don't use Sunoco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyTheSnowman Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 I've always used shell in the sled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 1 hour ago, jrhz06 said: 94 has ethanol, thats what they use to increase their octane rating. Used to be the best fuel but now its junk, worse than 91 ethanol free. Don't use Sunoco. Expressly agree.!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 2 hours ago, FrostyTheSnowman said: Isn't ultra 94 e free as well at PetroCan? Someone also sells 92, Sunoco I "think". As far as I recall, the Ultra 94 from Sunoco was actually the first to use ethanol years ago....I could be mistaken as it has been a long since its been out, but I recall the first time I heard about e-gas was in the Ultra years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 5 hours ago, stoney said: As far as I recall, the Ultra 94 from Sunoco was actually the first to use ethanol years ago....I could be mistaken as it has been a long since its been out, but I recall the first time I heard about e-gas was in the Ultra years ago. True we were using it in kart racing filthy stuff would fail a gas test in 48 hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 6 hours ago, stoney said: As far as I recall, the Ultra 94 from Sunoco was actually the first to use ethanol years ago....I could be mistaken as it has been a long since its been out, but I recall the first time I heard about e-gas was in the Ultra years ago. As Ed McMahon would say, "You are correct sir!". They really pushed the ethanol usage in their promotion @ the time. Comparing equal amounts of gasoline & ethanol will show that the ethanol contains less potential energy (BTUs). That's why when you start throwing ethanol into the mix, your fuel efficiency drops. Years ago when racer types were modding Holley carbs to run alky, they had to REALLY open the passageways & jets to flow the proper amount of fuel to the motor to produce the same HP as on gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrecker Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 i uae ultra 94 in my 1550 screaming eagle road king it works way better than 91 or 87 i am not sure why you can definatley notice a difference when using 87 it takes a while for the ecm to sort it self out it stumbles quite a bit with 94 it is crisp and throttle response is way better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Ethanol is not all bad, just not something you want sitting around or you get separation, if used regularly, it's okay. Plus it does a number on fuel lines, eats them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manotickmike Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Try looking in the bottom of a carburetor after using this crap. If you shut the petcock on a bike, and let it run out of gas to the point of stalling, there's still a significant amount of the corrosive crap left in there. At the end of a season, used say, once every couple of weeks, you'll be lucky to still have a pilot jet that isn't clogged with sediment or flakes of corroded aluminum. If you're lucky, this will cause starting and idling issues before you get a really noisy indicator. It works OK in a closed system, preferably fuel injected. Otherwise, the E-crap is hygroscopic. You can add specialized E-crap stabilizers, and hope for the best. If this stuff was saving the environment, or rescuing us from an evil oil cartel, this MIGHT be worth putting up with. It's not. Like E-testing, and green energy, it's a government plot. We all lose. It's un-sustainable. It costs more energy to produce than it provides, and can't be transported outside of a (fossil fuel burning) truck. Back to your Ski-doo topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 2 hours ago, manotickmike said: Try looking in the bottom of a carburetor after using this crap. If you shut the petcock on a bike, and let it run out of gas to the point of stalling, there's still a significant amount of the corrosive crap left in there. At the end of a season, used say, once every couple of weeks, you'll be lucky to still have a pilot jet that isn't clogged with sediment or flakes of corroded aluminum. If you're lucky, this will cause starting and idling issues before you get a really noisy indicator. It works OK in a closed system, preferably fuel injected. Otherwise, the E-crap is hygroscopic. You can add specialized E-crap stabilizers, and hope for the best. If this stuff was saving the environment, or rescuing us from an evil oil cartel, this MIGHT be worth putting up with. It's not. Like E-testing, and green energy, it's a government plot. We all lose. It's un-sustainable. It costs more energy to produce than it provides, and can't be transported outside of a (fossil fuel burning) truck. Back to your Ski-doo topic... You forgot it reduces your mileage too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 3 hours ago, manotickmike said: Try looking in the bottom of a carburetor after using this crap. If you shut the petcock on a bike, and let it run out of gas to the point of stalling, there's still a significant amount of the corrosive crap left in there. At the end of a season, used say, once every couple of weeks, you'll be lucky to still have a pilot jet that isn't clogged with sediment or flakes of corroded aluminum. If you're lucky, this will cause starting and idling issues before you get a really noisy indicator. It works OK in a closed system, preferably fuel injected. Otherwise, the E-crap is hygroscopic. You can add specialized E-crap stabilizers, and hope for the best. If this stuff was saving the environment, or rescuing us from an evil oil cartel, this MIGHT be worth putting up with. It's not. Like E-testing, and green energy, it's a government plot. We all lose. It's un-sustainable. It costs more energy to produce than it provides, and can't be transported outside of a (fossil fuel burning) truck. Back to your Ski-doo topic... You do know enthonal is be in our fuels since the mid 70s right? It's not the E that's bad for your fuel system. Its the cheap Chinese materials things are made out of, that can't stand up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 The sediment you will find is not just from ethanol....its just shitty fuel & systems in general now a days, but that is also why we use fuel filters, and run some magic in bottle (seafoam) once in a while, and all is good! I believe the ethanol does eat away at certain materials....I have some small engines that I have ran E-gas in the past and had to replace the lines more than once, while some other engines have never seen e-gas (that I knew about), and the lines are still original. Could be the materials used in each engine or the gas... My general rule is, any 2-stroke engines or small 4-stroke seasonal engines I have, will not see E-gas (if I can help it).....my daily driven vehicles, I have no problem using the E-gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskywizard Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 There are stations in southern Ontario sell ethanol-free fuel in lower grades than premium. Mostly, they're independent stations. One I stop at frequently is the XTR in Pontypool. And the Petro-Canada on Division in Cobourg is also an independently-owned station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manotickmike Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 13 hours ago, dweese said: You do know enthonal is be in our fuels since the mid 70s right? It's not the E that's bad for your fuel system. Its the cheap Chinese materials things are made out of, that can't stand up to it. I REALLY don't want to start an internet pissing match, but I have a real problem with mis-information. Ethanol blends begin to turn into a toxic soup almost immediately. Gas will not absorb atmospheric moisture. Ethanol does. An acid is formed. It eats almost anything, regardless of where it's made. MANY years ago, the rubber and gasket disaster was pretty much solved. They still haven't figured out a way to reliably carry this stuff in a steel pipe. When the water gets into the fuel, acid is formed, and galvanic corrosion occurs, accelerated by the presence of acid. Time was, if you left old gas in a carb, it would "gum up" with a varnish like residue. Almost any solvent would fix it. Given time, if it wasn't too bad, a commercial additive would often solve the problem. With Ethanol, we get this: (just type ethanol and carburetor into google, and click images) https://www.google.ca/search?q=ethanol+carburetor&biw=1165&bih=694&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5-vLPpPHQAhVLi1QKHUtAAEYQ_AUIBigB A lot of this damage can't be cleaned, or fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Burgo Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 My apex loved regular 87 octane fuel...my new turbo cat on the other hand... My rule of thumb is this... 2 strokes = premium fuel only 4 stroke = regular until last couple tanks of the season, then premium + fuel stabilizer. Turbo 4 stroke = premium only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whits-end Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Depends on the Apex year. 2006 to 2010 are fine with 87. 2011 and newer spec 91 because the engines were tweaked. That said, they do have a knock sensor and will run OK on 87 with slightly lower performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 22 hours ago, whiskywizard said: There are stations in southern Ontario sell ethanol-free fuel in lower grades than premium. Mostly, they're independent stations. One I stop at frequently is the XTR in Pontypool. And the Petro-Canada on Division in Cobourg is also an independently-owned station. Ontario Reg. 535/05 says as of January 1/2007 every fuel supplier either independent or corporate must sell on average 5% E fuel over the calendar year. This is how the northern ares get away with E free in the winter as they sell E10 in the summer. Is the independent in Pontypool selling E free part of the year? Maybe.... Is your local independent Petro-Canada? Highly doubt it. He is a franchise, and they have to follow the corporate office. He buys the fuel from the supplier corporate tells him too. If he had an E-free option there would be more then just that one station selling it in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 14 hours ago, manotickmike said: I REALLY don't want to start an internet pissing match, but I have a real problem with mis-information. I'm not doubting what it does to some fuel systems and I'm not passing mis-information. Like you said Google it, enthonal has been in our fuels since the 70s. So why now only in the last 10 years or so has it really become an issues? Cheaper components, and lower quality materials, isn't a far fetched possibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Having worked in the industry for as long as I have I can tell you that we used to have dirty but very useable carbs not until recently have I ever seen so much corrosion and damage done to fuel systems. There is no doubt in my mind that this is 100 percent due to the crap in our gas and the ability of it to attract water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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