irREVerent Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 wooden head,wooden shoes...wouldn't listen Actually, WD, sounds as though Flying Dutchman made the smart choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Actually, WD, sounds as though Flying Dutchman made the smart choice... I agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I'll admit the new ski doo are quite interesting and i find it interesting that they are totally targeting the Axys. That being said I'll be staying with my sled for at least another year. The Sidewinder is also looking to be a good sled for next year. Great to see the competition. The side winder is going to be an interesting sled, if it will start in the morning. That said, lots of 800 etcs wouldn't Start in cold either. 600 seems to be trouble free. When is doo going to turbo 900 or 1200 I wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nunz Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 Congrats... 850? The flying Dutchman snowchecked a new 2017 ski-doo............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vectordevil Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 i snochecked a 2017 Yamaha sidewinder RTX LE 129 TURBO !!!!!! its going to be a long wait till the fall....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pussy Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Starting cold is a function of the displacement of the engine and the ability to turn it cold. At -30 C, I have seen a lot of sleds not start that are 800 cc and larger, 2-stroke and 4-stroke. They can't be started with the starter because the starter and battery are not powerfull enough, and can't be started with the rope because the arm is not powerfull enough. You all are so worried about the sled weighing too much that there can't be big enough hardware to do the job. In Hearst this year there was a guy from Tillsonburg complaining his 1220 Doo won't start at -21C. A guy in my group can't start his 800 Doo because his arm is not big enough. A hair dryer is needed. My 2001 Thundercat is harder than all those sleds to start but it gets done buy one or both of two methods. 1. Plug in my engine heater that is under the crankcase for 2 hrs in the morming. Starter just starts it fine. 2. One guy pulls the rope while one guy turns the key. It's amazing how many dopes have not thought of that. My XF7000 has two heaters I put on kit BEFORE I even rode it. See Pictures. It can stay plugged in all night. Flick the key and it is running. The bottom line is stop complaining and get off your a$$ and do something about it. Or just stay home in the banana belt. I guess it is not cool or motcho to plug in the sled. BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Thanks BP. You hit close to home with the ' why would I put a block heater on my sled'? Good info., as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Thanks BP. You hit close to home with the ' why would I put a block heater on my sled'? Good info., as always. A number of years ago a friend of mine had a Cat 4 stroke 2 up touring sled. If I recall T660 perhaps. It had a block heater. On the real cold days he would plug it in then when it was time to ride he turned the key and fired right up. Others were getting worn out pulling their ropes. Not sure if it's still an option but another friend has the Cat turbo with remote start. Apparently they can be programmed to auto start periodically below a specific temperature, warm up and shut down to avoid those real tough starts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevester Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 A number of years ago a friend of mine had a Cat 4 stroke 2 up touring sled. If I recall T660 perhaps. It had a block heater. On the real cold days he would plug it in then when it was time to ride he turned the key and fired right up. Others were getting worn out pulling their ropes. Not sure if it's still an option but another friend has the Cat turbo with remote start. Apparently they can be programmed to auto start periodically below a specific temperature, warm up and shut down to avoid those real tough starts My 05 T600 turbo has a block heater as well as the auto cold start on the remote starter. Below -20 it would periodically fire up and warm up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irREVerent Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Starting cold is a function of the displacement of the engine and the ability to turn it cold. At -30 C, I have seen a lot of sleds not start that are 800 cc and larger, 2-stroke and 4-stroke. They can't be started with the starter because the starter and battery are not powerfull enough, and can't be started with the rope because the arm is not powerfull enough. You all are so worried about the sled weighing too much that there can't be big enough hardware to do the job. In Hearst this year there was a guy from Tillsonburg complaining his 1220 Doo won't start at -21C. A guy in my group can't start his 800 Doo because his arm is not big enough. A hair dryer is needed. My 2001 Thundercat is harder than all those sleds to start but it gets done buy one or both of two methods. 1. Plug in my engine heater that is under the crankcase for 2 hrs in the morming. Starter just starts it fine. 2. One guy pulls the rope while one guy turns the key. It's amazing how many dopes have not thought of that. My XF7000 has two heaters I put on kit BEFORE I even rode it. See Pictures. It can stay plugged in all night. Flick the key and it is running. The bottom line is stop complaining and get off your a$$ and do something about it. Or just stay home in the banana belt. I guess it is not cool or motcho to plug in the sled. IMG_4308.JPG IMG_4313.JPG BP It's not just about engine displacement...extreme cold starting also has a lot to do with how well you maintain your battery. We were in Kap in Feb. 2015 during the coldest spell of the winter...overnight low of -37C, with a windchill of -49C. My 2012 'Doo 1200 turned over slowly but started just fine on the original battery, which was then in its 4th season. For years I have put both our sleds on battery maintainers periodically during off-season storage...this method hasn't failed me yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pussy Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 There was a rash of starter/gear failures on 7000's and Vipers. I did not want to risk wrecking a starter due to tough starting. Also there is no rope. When those starter gears fail, the bits are in the engine oil. It's not a bendix/ring gear drive like the days of old on the outside. It's a constant mesh overunning clutch motorcycle drive inside the engine case. 02seld, you should really consider getting a pair of Kat's 50 watt three prong CSA approved heaters and put them on. You can order them on Amazon.ca. The only problem is that you have to take the sled apart and no one wants to do that. There is no Cat or Yam block heater available. Heating the water may trick the ECM into no cold start routine. As for the Thundercat, it was a bit more involved since there is no flat surface to apply the heater. So I added a plate to the bottom of the crankcase and attaced with heat conductive grease on the unused engine mount pads. That one is 400 watts but would be better with a Kat's 200 or 250 watt heater. Then it could stay on all night. And that is how it's done ! BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevester Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 There was a rash of starter/gear failures on 7000's and Vipers. I did not want to risk wrecking a starter due to tough starting. Also there is no rope. When those starter gears fail, the bits are in the engine oil. It's not a bendix/ring gear drive like the days of old on the outside. It's a constant mesh overunning clutch motorcycle drive inside the engine case. 02seld, you should really consider getting a pair of Kat's 50 watt three prong CSA approved heaters and put them on. You can order them on Amazon.ca. The only problem is that you have to take the sled apart and no one wants to do that. There is no Cat or Yam block heater available. Heating the water may trick the ECM into no cold start routine. As for the Thundercat, it was a bit more involved since there is no flat surface to apply the heater. So I added a plate to the bottom of the crankcase and attaced with heat conductive grease on the unused engine mount pads. That one is 400 watts but would be better with a Kat's 200 or 250 watt heater. Then it could stay on all night. IMG_3525.JPG IMG_3541.JPG IMG_3545.JPG And that is how it's done ! BP That won't save the starter gear. My starter was damaged when it was -10c outside and the sled was still some what warm. Never had any hard/hot start issues at all. I recommend just turning the sled over quickly rather then letting the fuel pump and injection cycle for those few seconds you can hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Thanks BP. You hit close to home with the ' why would I put a block heater on my sled'? Block heaters help big time. With the price of hydro most motels, hotels, don't have block heaters. The new hampton in Elliot lake, not one block heater. I asked front desk and they said they didn't put any in. Lucky it wasn't too cold, truck started fine 4 days later. When I went over to Dunlop for supper, I asked them about block heaters. They had a few available, If you could get to them, (cars in way, trailers etc) guess you need your own generator to start some sleds in the morning, if you don't use it on sled my need it for tow vechicle. Good info., as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pussy Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Run your extension cord out under the door if you have to. I did that at Three Bears from inside the cabin. No problem with the 1" gap under the door. The Vector was plugged into the triple tap on my cord at the T-Cat backed into the Bat Cave. When we park I always look for an outlet first. No problem at the Westway, Queens in Hearst, or the Apollo in Kap. And buy a cord with a light in the triple tap so you can see if the outlet actually works. My Dakota has always started no problem. Even when parked in the plowed field out behind the hotel in New Liskeard for a week with no hitching post. However, I don't think I would trust an Eco Diesel with a frozen DEF tank. Of course all this was learned the hard way over many years. BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I recommend just turning the sled over quickly rather then letting the fuel pump and injection cycle for those few seconds you can hear it. How would that help? I would figure that the engine would start easier if the fuel system was up to pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I have heard a couple of people that go touring carry one of those mechanic work lights with the bulb in a cage. On those real cold days they plug the work light in and stick it under the cowling near the engine. Apparently the bulb puts out enough heat to make a difference and those with a bulb overnight turn over so much easier than those without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevester Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 How would that help? I would figure that the engine would start easier if the fuel system was up to pressure. I have zero clue buy it works much better for my 7000 for warm starts. When it's cold I will let it cycle so I can here the fuel pump, even though I've never had to worry about relay for it freezing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamaha06 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I don't get how you guys are having issues starting your sleds, I have never had an issue with starting my viper in the cold and it's been in plenty of temps below -30 degrees Celsius, but I do always keep a battery tender on when the sleds at home in the garage. There's been times when mine would start right up and it's the 800 skidoo etecs needing a boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I have never had a issue starting my sleds. Left Hearst in -42 degrees. No issues.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Congrats... 850? You'll have to wait and see!.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techdenis007 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I have heard a couple of people that go touring carry one of those mechanic work lights with the bulb in a cage. On those real cold days they plug the work light in and stick it under the cowling near the engine. Apparently the bulb puts out enough heat to make a difference and those with a bulb overnight turn over so much easier than those without. Capture.JPG Yup. Just lean your arm against one that's been on for a while .... ouch ... 100 watts is overkill, 40-60 is plenty. Remember, all it really needs to do is be warm enough to keep frost off the block. The old style metal cage is best as they reflect more heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Yup. Just lean your arm against one that's been on for a while .... ouch ... 100 watts is overkill, 40-60 is plenty. Remember, all it really needs to do is be warm enough to keep frost off the block. The old style metal cage is best as they reflect more heat. Used to use that to keep the battery warm on bitterly cold nights. I have two inline block heaters from Yamaha, but have never installed them. they were initially purchased when I got my '07. Still in the package as I have not had an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white dragon Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 this is a Yamaha,artic cat & ski-doo problem for sure,funny everyone sayin "i've never had a problem" o-boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 this is a Yamaha,artic cat & ski-doo problem for sure,funny everyone sayin "i've never had a problem" o-boyYour right. Our Polaris always started in the cold.My 583 skidoo with the hand primer, would start as easy as my etec, without all the electronic crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pussy Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 At the Westway the first week of March, there was an long track Polaris 800 and an MXZ carb next to us. The Polaris starter would not crank it over fast enough, the arm was not big enough to pull it. My buddy told them "Pull the rope and turn the key together". That started it. They said they never thought of it. The guy with the MXZ said he had no problem. He had a device called a choke. There are always guys walking around the Westway with a battery booster box. That's OK but hard to carry on your trip, and tough on the flee power starter. There are lots of guys that say "I never have a problem" and there are guys with booster boxes and hair dryers. It would seem that not all sleds of the same make and model work the same. The point is there are lots of tricks that people have not thought about. It is better to be ready for the cold and not wondering what to do Monday morning at -30C when all your buddies are already running. The problem I see with the trouble light is; 1. It's pretty big to pack in your sled on a trip. 2. Will the bulb work when you need it. I could never keep even a rough service bulb working in my light in my garage. The sled ride is pretty rough sometimes. 3. Is there a place to stick it in by the engine and not burn or melt some plastic. Maybe catch fire. 4. You have to open a side panel with brittle plastic parts at -30C. Same with the hair dryer. For those who happen to have the perfect sled that always starts no matter how cold it is, you better keep it forever. The next one my be a letdown. BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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