Viperules700 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Under the new scenario, I am not sure that the clubs will get any permit money directly. I believe it all goes to district and they pay the bills. I expect that there will be a paid administrative staff required for the bookkeeping. No money for atv rental, chainsaw's, that sort of thing to help trial prep. Guess district will supply everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 When you centralize operations it isn't always for the better, in fact there will undoubtedly be decisions made and actions taken which may negatively impact some clubs and some trails. That is what can happen when you have a large area of trail maintenance looked after by just one or even several Managers and the governing Board only meets once per month and not every club is represented for various reasons. I am more concerned about the impact on volunteers. We had 6 or 7 of our Club Directors and Volunteers out packing and doing tree removal and signing. Many of us do that for several reasons, one of which is that we are the leaders of our Club and have a responsibility to show that the Club is active and we are there to answer any questions or complaints as to what is happening with our 220 Kms of trails. This is not going to be as easy when the District starts running things as the lines of communication will be more distant and of less frequency and obviously less knowledge as to what is really happening on our trails. The Clubs and their Volunteers have been the absolute backbone and strength of snowmobiling in Ontario for decades. To make a radical change such as we are now embarking on is troubling but undoubtedly those few Districts that are doing this will say it can be done and is being done and this change will be all good. Me, I am not convinced, I think it is too radical and too quick. If longstanding Volunteers throw in the towel there are very few ready to take over. Most of us are doers, not enjoying the Committee meetings and all the policy and procedure stuff but that is what it is going to take to make this work, meetings and more meetings. Soon there will only be a few running the show as the Clubs get weaker. I am from district 5 and while I was quite active in the past at Club and Association levels, for the past 3 years I have been unable to do any more than stake and sign trails. So I'm not totally up on all the changes in the way things are being done or how the challenges have been overcome in District 5 BUT I do know that for the most part the most club volunteers still seem to be around and helping out like always. The grooming from what I can see has not deteriorated and right where I live, I think it has improved. It is also my opinion that the local grooming association still has a lot of say on what and when grooming happens. I think the system is working here. Maybe it would be a good idea to ask the OFSC to create some type of forum where active members of all the other districts could ask knowledgeable people involved in the Districts 5 & 9 changes, specific questions about the 5&9 experience and how they have handled the various challenges to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 I am sure the clubs will get a fixed amount per kilometer of trail. Really that is the least of my concerns but still valid though. We have 3 groomers out of the 28 in the District which is to become 14 in 5 years. All 3 are landlocked by water, Trout Lake and Mattawa River system. We could send our Talon Lake groomer further east to Mattawa but that may involve a sleepover there. Will possibly work with paid operators but not as easy with volunteers. With the amount of lakes and rivers around District 11 I think it will be difficult to cut groomers by 50%. New groomers break too, ask Mattawa SC about their first year experience so who picks up the slack when every groomer is probably running 8-10 hours a day for 4-5 days a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I would suggest a club might want to look at a an arctic cat groomer special bought and operated with funds raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I would suggest a club might want to look at a an arctic cat groomer special bought and operated with funds raised. A reasonable idea but it really is an admission that the local clubs do not believe that the new district grooming associations can not handle 100% of their grooming accountabilities. So if it's a Bearcat and drag, why not a small BR and a drag. Over time you can end up with the same situation we at in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 A reasonable idea but it really is an admission that the local clubs do not believe that the new district grooming associations can not handle 100% of their grooming accountabilities. So if it's a Bearcat and drag, why not a small BR and a drag. Over time you can end up with the same situation we at in now. Better solution would be to let clubs keep good older groomers to do area's that are locked in by water. That makes allot of sense, since trade in values are so low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 I would suggest a club might want to look at a an arctic cat groomer special bought and operated with funds raised. Yes that is a good suggestion that other clubs have done. At our District meeting on Monday I was surprised to learn how many clubs do have work sleds and some with a tow behind drag. The OFSC advises that a 'privately' owned groomer being operated on a trail by Volunteers is covered under liability insurance. The trick is to have the Club fund purchase but have it registered in someone's name who also adds liability insurance and is reimbursed by Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkids Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I am sure the clubs will get a fixed amount per kilometer of trail. Really that is the least of my concerns but still valid though. We have 3 groomers out of the 28 in the District which is to become 14 in 5 years. All 3 are landlocked by water, Trout Lake and Mattawa River system. We could send our Talon Lake groomer further east to Mattawa but that may involve a sleepover there. Will possibly work with paid operators but not as easy with volunteers. With the amount of lakes and rivers around District 11 I think it will be difficult to cut groomers by 50%. New groomers break too, ask Mattawa SC about their first year experience so who picks up the slack when every groomer is probably running 8-10 hours a day for 4-5 days a week. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rules. I do not know much about the new formula but I know it is based on each groomer does xx number of KM's We have a couple of runs here in D12 that are in excess of 24hrs with NO option for a sleep over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Yes that is a good suggestion that other clubs have done. At our District meeting on Monday I was surprised to learn how many clubs do have work sleds and some with a tow behind drag. The OFSC advises that a 'privately' owned groomer being operated on a trail by Volunteers is covered under liability insurance. The trick is to have the Club fund purchase but have it registered in someone's name who also adds liability insurance and is reimbursed by Club. Our club owns a Skandic and skip drag that we use for opening and packing trails. Once that is done its used for portages. We also have a club director who bought and owns a 2015 skidoo Expedition with a Mini mogul master drag which he uses for some of our club trails. He is insured and is also covered under the OFSC volunteer insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Paul Where is a Mini a Mogul Master drag available, The Shop Industrial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Paul, is this the one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Another picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Paul Where is a Mini a Mogul Master drag available, The Shop Industrial? Its the ULMBP 08-4 model we have with goose neck. That we ordered from Mike jr at the Shop... 4ft wide .You can also get it with trip system and 6ft wide.. Ours is just the planner.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Any Clubs out there that have any experience with the Arctic Cat Bearcat Groomer Package? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Last winter Snowcrest benefited from the generosity of a fellow with that kind of rig. It did a great job on trail 4, which is inaccessible to the larger groomers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Thanks Blake. I read elsewhere that you had a bit of a mishap this weekend, hopefully nothing too serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 We tried out the unit last winter. Its pretty slick and has everything you would want. It's Caddillac. The price tag is as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 https://www.facebook.com/SnowmobilerTV/videos/vb.104377739624891/810098199052838/?type=2&theater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Thanks Blake. I read elsewhere that you had a bit of a mishap this weekend, hopefully nothing too serious. Thanks Brian. I got a little enthusiastic and now I need to rest my back for a week or so. LOL Nothing that won't heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Phil Molto Pat Marion of Arctic Cat and Paul McNichol from Triton Trailers (Severn River cottage) set it all up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi, Will reply later today to the replies. What is MOTS? In my opinion MOTS moves all the assets from a club what is paid with permit money to the District. Everything what is paid with Fundraising money will belong to the clubs. Is this right? So all the groomers belongs to the Districts and all groomer operator's are on payroll at the District. The clubs are using their own groomers, as they had in the past, and groom their trails and maybe some short sections of the neighbour club. The clubs decides what trail will be groomed today or tomorrow, so their is no consequent groomed trails between clubs. If I am right, this is what is going on in District 5 and 9? So there are still over groomed and under groomed trails? Some clubs are packing/grooming other clubs stay at home and let the snow blow away. In my opinion, to get MOST working, the District need to be split up in regions and every region has a Groomer Manager. The job of this Groomer Manager is take care of who is making a grooming schedule and checks that the groomers are going out and groom the trails on schedule. It doesn't make no difference who's was the old owner of the groomer, it can groom trails from other clubs. Now we get consequent groomed top trails and the "President Trail" get only groomed 1 time in two weeks in stead of 3 times a week. Now we need less groomers and all snowmobilers are gaining from this, Am I right? What am I missing here? Thanks, Greg you are missing "best practices" therd is no way a district can coordinate grooming schedules, but we have our best practice informayion, the trail committee discusses all this and passes it on to clubs. It is a work in progress, the key word, we are making progress. There are no secrets, do some reading, ask some questions......d5 is transparent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Board of Gov's had their meeting this past weekend. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 10923491_807776799284978_3327799275314383714_n.jpg10922533_10154084340393532_4679103771742307414_n.jpg10885104_10154084337878532_4998170803651098308_n.jpg10418393_807776775951647_360180528851250406_n.jpg10407130_10154084342808532_6012303453918755272_n.jpg Trail 4 was in the best condition it has ever been in. Marvellous groomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 https://www.facebook.com/SnowmobilerTV/videos/vb.104377739624891/810098199052838/?type=2&theater Do you have a video facing backwards showing the drag in operation as it is in motion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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