A Plea for Help

[AkronOrange]

Anyone that has read my posts knows that I encourage and love riding those northern trails.  It has become increasingly evident that these trails are not the focus of the OFSC and it is no secret that I disagree with the decision to allow the infrastructure to deteriorate. 

 

As we all prepare to buy our season passes for the coming season I encourage the purchase of permits through those clubs and districts which are struggling.  I know D16 would love to reconnect with the rest of the system.  When choosing the area you want to support; choose one that needs the support.   I know if it weren't for Luke, the D'Ville club would not exist today.  Help him!  Why continue to support the clubs that take advantage of the system and do nothing to improve the livelihood of our sport and only look out for themselves.  Spread the wealth think about those less fortunate.  It's not only about permit sales, it's about providing a snowmobile experience for generations to come.

[Nunz]

Akron, Thanks for starting this thread as I was just thinking the same thing the past couple of days seeing all of Luc's posts on Facebook and online..

 

It's always a hard call when this time of the year comes up, I personally always feel like we should support clubs like Luc's but then there's the buy where you ride and support the local clubs that you do most of your riding trails on. Having rode the northern trails last year was

a trip of a lifetime and for sure I hope the trails will stay open up there us for all to enjoy although a lot of people will never go that far to ride.

 

Just my 2 cents on it.

 

I guess the easiest solution would be to designate out of the two passes we buy one for our home club and the other for a club that really needs the support.

 

Nunzio

[Doogirl69]

Simple,

 

BUY WHERE YOU RIDE.

 

The FFC will take care of the north.

[Greggie]

Anyone that has read my posts knows that I encourage and love riding those northern trails.  It has become increasingly evident that these trails are not the focus of the OFSC and it is no secret that I disagree with the decision to allow the infrastructure to deteriorate. 

 

As we all prepare to buy our season passes for the coming season I encourage the purchase of permits through those clubs and districts which are struggling.  I know D16 would love to reconnect with the rest of the system.  When choosing the area you want to support; choose one that needs the support.   I know if it weren't for Luke, the D'Ville club would not exist today.  Help him!  Why continue to support the clubs that take advantage of the system and do nothing to improve the livelihood of our sport and only look out for themselves.  Spread the wealth think about those less fortunate.  It's not only about permit sales, it's about providing a snowmobile experience for generations to come.

 

It seems that you still don't understand FFC. Every district get their share of all permits sold in Ontario. Doesn't make a difference if it is District 1, District 13 or District 15. Clubs who have a financial problem, most of them are spending the monay not wisely.

Thanks,

Greg

[Wildbill]

Simple,

 

BUY WHERE YOU RIDE.

 

The FFC will take care of the north.

Good idea FFC is taking $85000 from D10 

[Wildbill]

It seems that you still don't understand FFC. Every district get their share of all permits sold in Ontario. Doesn't make a difference if it is District 1, District 13 or District 15. Clubs who have a financial problem, most of them are spending the monay not wisely.

Thanks,

Greg

Most not all 30 % stays with the selling entity 

[Doogirl69]

Good idea FFC is taking $85000 from D10 

 

I said its taking care of the North, not central Ontario where most ride. 

 

D8, D6, D7, D10 suffer.

[Wildbill]

I said its taking care of the North, not central Ontario where most ride. 

 

D8, D6, D7, D10 suffer.

that is where most riding happens 

[Greggie]

Most not all 30 % stays with the selling entity 

No, the 30% will be deducted from the equalization money to the District.

Thanks,

Greg

[gator]

No, the 30% will be deducted from the equalization money to the District.

Thanks,

Greg

That is not correct. 30% goes to the selling club and 70% to the OFSC. The OFSC makes an equalization payment to the districts from the 70% they receive. The OFSC keeps some for insurance, groomer fund etc. and the equalization fund is calculated on trail length and grooming hours. There is no deduction from the equalization fund. They are separate slices of the pie. The portion the selling entity receives was never part of the equalization fund.

[Greggie]

That is not correct. 30% goes to the selling club and 70% to the OFSC. The OFSC makes an equalization payment to the districts from the 70% they receive. The OFSC keeps some for insurance, groomer fund etc. and the equalization fund is calculated on trail length and grooming hours. There is no deduction from the equalization fund. They are separate slices of the pie. The portion the selling entity receives was never part of the equalization fund.

You are wrong. The 30% what keeps at the selling club will be deducted from the total equalization money for the district. Check the FFC document.

Thanks,

[AC+YA]

In poor snow years the north gets much more trafic yet most traveling north have bought permits from their local club.  My greatest fear is that the small northern clubs might not be there in the future when the snow only comes to the north.  For this reason, I invest in small northern clubs to help keep the system alive.  Some have issues getting the minimum number of permits sold.

 

If you have ever taken a trip through the north, you may have thought that next season you would like to support all the hard work a particular small club had done to make the trip so nice and special.

 

When you have multiple passes to buy and you are now on the internet to get permits rather than down at your local dealer or club, remember that special northern loop you still reminisce about..........

 

Perhaps not all snow seasons in the future will be so great.

 

Thanks

[gator]

You are wrong. The 30% what keeps at the selling club will be deducted from the total equalization money for the district. Check the FFC document.

Thanks,

Take a look at the chart on page 21 of the August 11, 2014 FFC document. The PSE Direct Revenue and Equalization Fund are 2 separate items. If as you say the PSE Direct Revenue is deducted from the Equalization Fund that would leave 8% for distribution to the districts. You are really wrong in this case.

[Doogirl69]

In poor snow years the north gets much more trafic yet most traveling north have bought permits from their local club.  My greatest fear is that the small northern clubs might not be there in the future when the snow only comes to the north.  For this reason, I invest in small northern clubs to help keep the system alive.  Some have issues getting the minimum number of permits sold.

 

If you have ever taken a trip through the north, you may have thought that next season you would like to support all the hard work a particular small club had done to make the trip so nice and special.

 

When you have multiple passes to buy and you are now on the internet to get permits rather than down at your local dealer or club, remember that special northern loop you still reminisce about..........

 

Perhaps not all snow seasons in the future will be so great.

 

Thanks

 

You don't understand. If the South has no snow they will keep 30% of permit sales. They will have no grooming or trails open so will not get any funds for that. Their only expenses will be admin.

 

The money they didn't get for grooming expenses will go to the OFSC to be sent to the Districts who groomed trails based on trails open and grooming hours.

[AkronOrange]

I appreciate all of the interest and traffic on this topic.

 

I don't know the distribution for all of the OFSC funds to all of the various districts, I do know that D16, with their current status get nothing from the FFC program, they do get about 70% of the revenue from permits sold; last year it was about 100 permits, so my rough calculation is about $14,000, other than that they are left to fend for themselves.  I also know that can't be consistent with all clubs which are in good standing, I'm sure they get less.  Wouldn't it be nice to have a complete trail system again?  I don't think it would take too much, if some of us just purchased one permit from these clubs they could exist.  I recognize that there isn't nearly as much traffic in these areas, well guess what; they don't require nearly as much grooming; those trails that led us into D16; A trail through Hillsport and A107A, only needed grooming once or twice per season.  I ride a big 4 stroke, I love a freshly groomed trail, there isn't anything quite like that feeling of just floating at 50 km/hr on a wide open trail.  However, I have witnessed on numerous occasions where trails are being groomed simply for the purpose of grooming trails.  Trails that were perfectly smooth and in good condition were being groomed, it just doesn't make sense that some trails are closing and wasted time is being spent on others.

 

If you have ridden or hope to ride in the north, please buy a permit from those northern clubs that need it most.  For information on D16 please visit: http://www.snowclub.ca/

[Doogirl69]

I appreciate all of the interest and traffic on this topic.

 

I don't know the distribution for all of the OFSC funds to all of the various districts, I do know that D16, with their current status get nothing from the FFC program, they do get about 70% of the revenue from permits sold; last year it was about 100 permits, so my rough calculation is about $14,000, other than that they are left to fend for themselves.  I also know that can't be consistent with all clubs which are in good standing, I'm sure they get less.  Wouldn't it be nice to have a complete trail system again?  I don't think it would take too much, if some of us just purchased one permit from these clubs they could exist.  I recognize that there isn't nearly as much traffic in these areas, well guess what; they don't require nearly as much grooming; those trails that led us into D16; A trail through Hillsport and A107A, only needed grooming once or twice per season.  I ride a big 4 stroke, I love a freshly groomed trail, there isn't anything quite like that feeling of just floating at 50 km/hr on a wide open trail.  However, I have witnessed on numerous occasions where trails are being groomed simply for the purpose of grooming trails.  Trails that were perfectly smooth and in good condition were being groomed, it just doesn't make sense that some trails are closing and wasted time is being spent on others.

 

If you have ridden or hope to ride in the north, please buy a permit from those northern clubs that need it most.  For information on D16 please visit: http://www.snowclub.ca/

 

There is no D16. They are stand alone Clubs. Sad but true, hence buy where you ride puts funds where people ride. I feel bad for the American riders who want to ride here but there are not many who ride in the north. When they come up they usually bring their own fuel because its cheaper which is not good for the local businesses. The same here in D7 when the Americans bring trucks full of jerry cans of fuel. Not helping the local economy at all.  

[Greggie]

Take a look at the chart on page 21 of the August 11, 2014 FFC document. The PSE Direct Revenue and Equalization Fund are 2 separate items. If as you say the PSE Direct Revenue is deducted from the Equalization Fund that would leave 8% for distribution to the districts. You are really wrong in this case.

Gator,

Look at page 29 and study it. You will see that I was right.

Thanks

Greg

[gator]

Gator,

Look at page 29 and study it. You will see that I was right.

Thanks

Greg

How can you be right when there is no page 29? Last years FFC had 22 pages and this years has 24. What document are you looking at?

[Big Pete]

Gator/Greg, you are both right.

 

Gator is correct when he says that the Total Equalization Fund = 70% of Permit Sales less funding for Insurance, Groomers and OFSC Programs. There are no other deductions

 

Gregg, you are correct when you say that a Districts share of the Equalization Fund is dependant on Trails, Grooming Hours and Admin Alloowance (based on the standard cost factors) less the 30% of Permit Revenue retained by the PSE.

[Wildman]

You don't understand. If the South has no snow they will keep 30% of permit sales. They will have no grooming or trails open so will not get any funds for that. Their only expenses will be admin.

 

The money they didn't get for grooming expenses will go to the OFSC to be sent to the Districts who groomed trails based on trails open and grooming hours.

Glad to see you finally did your homework, this forum might do some good after all

[Viperules700]

You don't understand. If the South has no snow they will keep 30% of permit sales. They will have no grooming or trails open so will not get any funds for that. Their only expenses will be admin.

 

The money they didn't get for grooming expenses will go to the OFSC to be sent to the Districts who groomed trails based on trails open and grooming hours.

This isn't true. The southern clubs always get paid to level and pre groom trais before snow arrives. We only need 6" to get trail base started. We always need more stakes and signs, since weather can play havoc with them, especially during freeze thaw cycles.

[Greggie]

How can you be right when there is no page 29? Last years FFC had 22 pages and this years has 24. What document are you looking at?

Then you don't have the complete document. It have about 36 pages.

Thanks

Greg

[02Sled]

Anyone that has read my posts knows that I encourage and love riding those northern trails.  It has become increasingly evident that these trails are not the focus of the OFSC and it is no secret that I disagree with the decision to allow the infrastructure to deteriorate. 

 

As we all prepare to buy our season passes for the coming season I encourage the purchase of permits through those clubs and districts which are struggling.  I know D16 would love to reconnect with the rest of the system.  When choosing the area you want to support; choose one that needs the support.   I know if it weren't for Luke, the D'Ville club would not exist today.  Help him!  Why continue to support the clubs that take advantage of the system and do nothing to improve the livelihood of our sport and only look out for themselves.  Spread the wealth think about those less fortunate.  It's not only about permit sales, it's about providing a snowmobile experience for generations to come.

 

Getting permit support for the area to sustain it is great. Groomer guy is one of the most enthusiastic supporters one will ever find. From what I have read however it seems that not only do they currently lack support from permit buyers they also lack volunteers. If only every club in the province had a few more people like Luc,

[gator]

Gator/Greg, you are both right.

 

Gator is correct when he says that the Total Equalization Fund = 70% of Permit Sales less funding for Insurance, Groomers and OFSC Programs. There are no other deductions

 

Gregg, you are correct when you say that a Districts share of the Equalization Fund is dependant on Trails, Grooming Hours and Admin Alloowance (based on the standard cost factors) less the 30% of Permit Revenue retained by the PSE.

Total funding to a club/district is about 70% but the Direct Payment portion (30%) is not part of the Equalization Fund. Insurance and groomer fund comes out of the 30% the OFSC gets.

 

I agree about the sharing of the Equalization Fund (38%) but that is separate from the Direct Payment. Show me in the FFC where it shows this Direct Payment is part of the Equalization Fund.

 

 

Greggie I do have the full document unless the OFSC was hiding portions from the clubs. There are some supplementary pages but are numbered separatly. Please display what you think supports your point of view.

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

This isn't true. The southern clubs always get paid to level and pre groom trais before snow arrives. We only need 6" to get trail base started. We always need more stakes and signs, since weather can play havoc with them, especially during freeze thaw cycles.

Show me some proof of where southern clubs  "always get paid to level and pre groom trais before snow arrives".