0 dollars for refurbishment

[Classic]

That's a rosy picture that was made with water paint.

 

Maybe the distribution of the district funds should not be left up to the District Governor!  Once you give these people an option, most of them will distribute with Bias, not brains. 

 

Why is the OFSC so hell bent and thinking the FFC worked?

 

And also, stop giving away family day weekend and we'll sell more permits.  I'm tired of paying for 6 weeks of the year when the ONLY LONG WEEKEND of the winter is given away so that the trails are crap and the money we (the permit holders) paid is being wasted with extra grooming just to keep up with the free sleds.

 

Maybe my area could have groomed longer if not for Family "Give the Trespassers a break" Weekend

What makes you think the distribution is the governors idea? It should be a decision of the district board.

[sledjunk]

I think that probably varies by district.

[Greggie]

What makes you think the distribution is the governors idea? It should be a decision of the district board.

 

The distribution of the districts funds has nothing to do with the Governors ideas, also not much with the district board. It has to do with THE CLUBS of the district. They vote for it and if they don't vote for it, they can change the decisions of the District board.The clubs of the district have the power.

Thanks,

 

Greg

[Wildbill]

The distribution of the districts funds has nothing to do with the Governors ideas, also not much with the district board. It has to do with THE CLUBS of the district. They vote for it and if they don't vote for it, they can change the decisions of the District board.The clubs of the district have the power.

Thanks,

 

Greg

in a perfect world yes not so much always though

[Domino]

The distribution of the districts funds has nothing to do with the Governors ideas, also not much with the district board. It has to do with THE CLUBS of the district. They vote for it and if they don't vote for it, they can change the decisions of the District board.The clubs of the district have the power.

Thanks,

 

Greg

 

Maybe someone needs to Educate District 7 then.  The unfair distribution almost caused a club to fold.

 

Club trails are also at risk.  If grooming hours are only used when an industrial groomer is used, why would a club maintain small trails where a large groomer is not able to pass? 

 

That said, if the local trails in my area are neglected or closed this year, my permit dollars, if any, we be redirected to another club.  If they close the likes of Trail 3 and/or 4, then why bother buying a permit at all.  Trail 3 was brutal last year and if I am going to ride an ungroomed trail, then I don't need to support the grooming of the other trails so that all the deadbeats can rip them up on FDW.

 

As you can tell, I'm growing tired of the politics of the OFSC.  Every time I ask, what will the OFSC do about that, the response is "Nothing".  So if the OFSC does nothing to help the clubs, why does it exist?

[Doogirl69]

Maybe someone needs to Educate District 7 then.  The unfair distribution almost caused a club to fold.

 

 

 

The District distribution is fair to all Club's whither or not its part of the MSR. The District distribution was agreed upon and approved by the MSR, SCR and HGR. 

 

You need to ask the Club why they are in financial trouble.

[Nutter]

Maybe someone needs to Educate District 7 then.  The unfair distribution almost caused a club to fold.

 

Club trails are also at risk.  If grooming hours are only used when an industrial groomer is used, why would a club maintain small trails where a large groomer is not able to pass? 

 

That said, if the local trails in my area are neglected or closed this year, my permit dollars, if any, we be redirected to another club.  If they close the likes of Trail 3 and/or 4, then why bother buying a permit at all.  Trail 3 was brutal last year and if I am going to ride an ungroomed trail, then I don't need to support the grooming of the other trails so that all the deadbeats can rip them up on FDW.

 

As you can tell, I'm growing tired of the politics of the OFSC.  Every time I ask, what will the OFSC do about that, the response is "Nothing".  So if the OFSC does nothing to help the clubs, why does it exist?

 

 

 

Dom you seem to think the OFSC has this big bag of money and troops of roaming volunteers and the power to over ride what the clubs ask for ? they simply don't.

 

As for family day weekend, the majority of clubs voted it in to try and see what it reaps, after last winters awesome season, it will be interesting to see how many from that weekend who got the free passes will buy a full season for this year, and since they had to download a permit we will now know how many did. Nothing ventured nothing gained. 

 

We have 16 districts across the province paying admin to do certain admin tasks, how many associations and clubs within these 16 districts do we have across the province that also pay admin (and in some cases paying for office space) because they cannot find volunteers to do it ?  I'm betting lots, costing the permit buyer well north of the million dollar mark.  

 

Greggie is right, we have to try and get back to the basics of using volunteers, if we can't with admin positions then we have to stream line it and just hire a small team of maybe 8 or 10 well schooled for the position personnel and stick them in the Barrie office, where they could share, office space, inet, photo copying, paper, phone .... ect costs and let them admin the districts, associations and clubs from there, which would also serve better in networking solutions to issues. Much cheaper to run one office rather then 16 dist offices and however many paid admin and rented association and club offices that are out there. 

[bbakernbay]

The direction we are heading with FFC, and which I agree with, is that the a Districts are the operational entities and the trail permit monies flow to the District as set out in FFC.

Each District is provided with funding for admin and the a Clubs in each District develop a policy as to how the TP $ are divided up. We do it based on grooming hours and trail length.

Therefore 16 offices are quite justified and a good Manager is a very useful resource to all of the clubs.

Head Office looks after the bigger items like insurance, policy etc.

[Nutter]

The direction we are heading with FFC, and which I agree with, is that the a Districts are the operational entities and the trail permit monies flow to the District as set out in FFC.

Each District is provided with funding for admin and the a Clubs in each District develop a policy as to how the TP $ are divided up. We do it based on grooming hours and trail length.

Therefore 16 offices are quite justified and a good Manager is a very useful resource to all of the clubs.

Head Office looks after the bigger items like insurance, policy etc.

 

 

Brian in this day and age does the physical location of the district office really matter, and wouldn't a good dist manager putting in a 40 hour work week in an efficient shared office be able to handle the tasks of 2 or possibly 3 districts ?

 

Regardless of 16 separate offices being justified, if we can do it with less manpower and less overhead (office space and utility costs, and office equip and supplies), we should at least look at the idea I mentioned and see if it's something that could work. Were not talking about a couple of bucks here, were talking big dollars when we add in association and club paid admin and office space along with the dist offices.  Heck let the OFSC office hire fire and manage the admins and let the clubs get back to building, maintaining trails and landowner relations, and promoting the sport .... it's what were good at.  No need for us to have to be business and hired personal managers too if we don't have to be. 

[Domino]

Dom you seem to think the OFSC has this big bag of money and troops of roaming volunteers and the power to over ride what the clubs ask for ? they simply don't.

 

As for family day weekend, the majority of clubs voted it in to try and see what it reaps, after last winters awesome season, it will be interesting to see how many from that weekend who got the free passes will buy a full season for this year, and since they had to download a permit we will now know how many did. Nothing ventured nothing gained. 

 

We have 16 districts across the province paying admin to do certain admin tasks, how many associations and clubs within these 16 districts do we have across the province that also pay admin (and in some cases paying for office space) because they cannot find volunteers to do it ?  I'm betting lots, costing the permit buyer well north of the million dollar mark.  

 

Greggie is right, we have to try and get back to the basics of using volunteers, if we can't with admin positions then we have to stream line it and just hire a small team of maybe 8 or 10 well schooled for the position personnel and stick them in the Barrie office, where they could share, office space, inet, photo copying, paper, phone .... ect costs and let them admin the districts, associations and clubs from there, which would also serve better in networking solutions to issues. Much cheaper to run one office rather then 16 dist offices and however many paid admin and rented association and club offices that are out there. 

 

I have high hopes

 

I do like your concept of sharing administrative staff.

[Wildbill]

I have high hopes

 

I do like your concept of sharing administrative staff.

not sure that I like the idea of them taking instruction from the top down

[FreezerBurnt]

 

Maybe my area could have groomed longer if not for Family "Give the Trespassers a break" Weekend

 

 

Are you saying clubs groomed multiple times on that weekend forcing clubs to shut down a couple weeks early???

 

Sounds like unfounded sour grapes

 

Free weekend or not , most clubs groomed the same way they would for a regular weekend

 

I found good and crappy trails that weekend, no different then any other weekend

[02Sled]

If there is going to be a free weekend don't do it on the Family Dayweekend to the detriment of those that have paid for their permits. Without the freebies it is already depenedent upon weather the busiest days of the winter. The added traffic simply deteriorates the trail conditions that much faster and add to that the congestion you find with a number of people stopping for breaks and actually blocking off the full width of the trail. We didn't see a lot of that but the ones we did were all freebie permits or no permits at all.

 

If these free weekend riders are not free loading the rest of the time can someone explain to me how so many people can justify $13K+ for sleds that don't get ridden on trails, just the lakes? I guess I'm just not in their tax bracket. An awful lot of pricey new sleds out there without the free permits or any permit at all on that weekend.

[Panther340]

Well O2 Sled......maybe you need to expand your realizations of what actually is available out there that has snow on it and can be used for snowmachines that are $13,000  or $1300 (like mine).......that isn't a section of OFSC trails. Not everybody is a freeloading %$H&OL$

 

1) Crown land

2) Private land

3) Cottage roads not plowed in winter

4) Rural roads that allow snowmachines

5) Rural road ditches

6) Park land that allows snowmachines

7) Lakes, Rivers

[Faceman]

Are you saying clubs groomed multiple times on that weekend forcing clubs to shut down a couple weeks early???

 

Sounds like unfounded sour grapes

 

Free weekend or not , most clubs groomed the same way they would for a regular weekend

 

I found good and crappy trails that weekend, no different then any other weekend

Freezy...It could  cost depending how many times the trails were groomed that weekend. No one expected a season as late and many clubs in March

 were down to one pass on either Thurs or Fri and another maybe Sunday night..and the rest got left..

[Domino]

Are you saying clubs groomed multiple times on that weekend forcing clubs to shut down a couple weeks early???

 

Sounds like unfounded sour grapes

 

Free weekend or not , most clubs groomed the same way they would for a regular weekend

 

I found good and crappy trails that weekend, no different then any other weekend

 

 

Yes, I am suggesting that some club may have groomed extra for the family day weekend knowing the traffic volume that they would experience.  I am also saying the having a free weekend without extra grooming places too much traffic on the trails and the condition of the trails suffers. 

 

So to be perfectly clear, I DO NOT SUPPORT A FREE WEEKEND...PERIOD!  If I pay, they can all pay.  Far too many freeloaders already.

[02Sled]

Well O2 Sled......maybe you need to expand your realizations of what actually is available out there that has snow on it and can be used for snowmachines that are $13,000  or $1300 (like mine).......that isn't a section of OFSC trails. Not everybody is a freeloading %$H&OL$

 

1) Crown land

2) Private land

3) Cottage roads not plowed in winter

4) Rural roads that allow snowmachines

5) Rural road ditches

6) Park land that allows snowmachines

7) Lakes, Rivers

 

I realize very well that if you go further north in Ontario you will find an abundance of some of what you list however I should have qualified my observation I guess. In the Muskoka area, especially the area I ride there is a distinct lack of the things in your list. While I am out and about on that long weekend in the area between Port Severn, Gravenhurst, Parry Sound and Port Carling I see an awful lot of these new pricey sleds without permits. Are you suggesting that the rest of the year they all trailer further north to area where they will find that crown land and such.

 

I would suggest perhaps a large number of these new sleds are local free loaders that ride with impunity during the week when the chances of being caught are extremely low and when the free weekend rolls around come out in droves since they don't need to be concerned. It's always interesting when doing trail patrol and you see a group of sleds ahead coming toward you on the trail suddenly do a U turn.

 

Kid yourself not there are lots of freeloaders out there.

[02Sled]

Yes, I am suggesting that some club may have groomed extra for the family day weekend knowing the traffic volume that they would experience.  I am also saying the having a free weekend without extra grooming places too much traffic on the trails and the condition of the trails suffers. 

 

So to be perfectly clear, I DO NOT SUPPORT A FREE WEEKEND...PERIOD!  If I pay, they can all pay.  Far too many freeloaders already.

 

There is always an option to SELL a Try our Trails Permit at a reduced rate for a selected weekend instead of making it free. I believe that the one day permit proposed is $25 with a 2 day minimum. Select a weekend and promote perhaps 1/2 price at $25 for the weekend.

[FreezerBurnt]

There is always an option to SELL a Try our Trails Permit at a reduced rate for a selected weekend instead of making it free. I believe that the one day permit proposed is $25 with a 2 day minimum. Select a weekend and promote perhaps 1/2 price at $25 for the weekend.

 

 

 

Freezy...It could  cost depending how many times the trails were groomed that weekend. No one expected a season as late and many clubs in March

 were down to one pass on either Thurs or Fri and another maybe Sunday night..and the rest got left..

Our clubs out here had quit grooming early this year due too so much snow early and late

 

same with back home in Sudbury , they had a super long season also, I enjoyed my time on the trail there this year and will be back again next season to ride them

 

To blame an extra grooming pass if some clubs elected to groom one more pass during that weekend to not be able to groom late season, come on now

 

NO one can predict how long a season will last or how much snow days we will have, and as we all know some years the snow is gone within a couple days after having prime riding conditions

Yes, I am suggesting that some club may have groomed extra for the family day weekend knowing the traffic volume that they would experience.  I am also saying the having a free weekend without extra grooming places too much traffic on the trails and the condition of the trails suffers. 

 

So to be perfectly clear, I DO NOT SUPPORT A FREE WEEKEND...PERIOD!  If I pay, they can all pay.  Far too many freeloaders already.

 

 

There it is you do not support the Free Weekend, I agree with you btw, there should be no free weekend, I bought my OFSC permit also and agree everyone that rides OFSC trail should support the pay permit system

[soupkids]

Biggest problem with FFC last years was EVERYBODY had snow for a longer period than "normal"

If we had a "normal" winter there would not have been the grooming hours that we did.

as an example, here we normally have at least one melt down were we do not groom for about a week or 2 combined, we did not have the melt down last year.

Many southern clubs who may "normally" groom for 2-3 weeks total, groomed for 5 or 6.

[AkronOrange]

I realize very well that if you go further north in Ontario you will find an abundance of some of what you list however I should have qualified my observation I guess. In the Muskoka area, especially the area I ride there is a distinct lack of the things in your list. While I am out and about on that long weekend in the area between Port Severn, Gravenhurst, Parry Sound and Port Carling I see an awful lot of these new pricey sleds without permits. Are you suggesting that the rest of the year they all trailer further north to area where they will find that crown land and such.

 

I would suggest perhaps a large number of these new sleds are local free loaders that ride with impunity during the week when the chances of being caught are extremely low and when the free weekend rolls around come out in droves since they don't need to be concerned. It's always interesting when doing trail patrol and you see a group of sleds ahead coming toward you on the trail suddenly do a U turn.

 

Kid yourself not there are lots of freeloaders out there.

Okay, I'll chime in here.  It seems there is a disconnect between reality and that which is being written.  I can tell you, I ride in the north and rarely see sleds without permits.  I realize that you're proposing that these sleds are ridden in areas that a permit holding rider would not see, but you would think that, occasionally, I would run across one of these high price machines on a trail - I don't.  There simply are not any of these.  Those riding in the north without permits are either working or surviving, and I say let them do so.  It's not them on their old Skandic's that are abusing the trails, it's us, and we should pay for it.

 

Instead of focusing on the few, as a percentage, of those taking advantage, focus on improving the system and reducing the ways clubs manipulate the available funding.