Canuck Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I understand from a volunteer up north that 2010 trail passes will be $200 (if ordered early). Still the best value / bang for the buck in winter activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maple Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I understand from a volunteer up north that 2010 trail passes will be $200 (if ordered early).Still the best value / bang for the buck in winter activities. Agreed ... definitely still a bargain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToSlow Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 i love it. and anything OFSC can do to make it better is just a bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'm in ! Gimmee 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper700 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I wish I could say the same. Only rode 3 saturdays and one friday this year. I think I might just rent for a weekend or two. Would be cheaper. ofsc needs to come up with a family sled pass rate, if this sport is going to grow once again. I heard they are giving people with a 15 year old sled or older a trail pass for half price, starting this fall? I know some people with older sleds and they ride more then me, so how is this fair??? I have bought two passes since 1993, so I might be in for one more winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan XC700 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 You got me beat....I've still got a 2009 pass that didn't even make it on a sled. The other may have a total of 100 miles on it......the winter started great but went south fast. I'll still be getting 2 passes next season, but a family pass (minimum 3 sleds) would be an interesting idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I barely squeeked in 800 Km's (on my new 1200) this Winter...yet every KM riden also had a smile a mile wide on my face. The 200 bucks is still very much worth it! I would also think that a family pass should be investigated. Say...$720.00/4 sleds, instead of the $800.00/4 Of course, the registration and insurance slips wold have to be under one family name or home address, to qualify for the family deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailblazer Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Yea and I only drive my truck for 100 kl per year so my license sticker should be half price as well. And between my partner and 3 kids, we should all pay half price on our car/truck stickers as well. I understand what people are saying and I know that especially with these tough economic times that we will unfortunately loose more riders. If they had a surplus of money every year, as in receiving more dollars from sold permits then what it costs them to provide these wonderful trails, then they would be in a position to sell permits for less. I would think that would bring about an across the board decrease for everyone though. Not that it will ever happen so the discussion is sort of moot. The trail building and maintenance costs are not going down so it's not realistic to expect the trail permits price to drop. The CLUBS don't raise enough dollars from permit sales alone to cover the cost of providing this wonderful trail system we have in Ontario. So again, how can we expect them to sell any permits at a cheaper rate to a certain group of riders. Even if you have to buy 5 or 6 permits, I know it's expensive. Been there. Done that. But no matter how expensive it was for us, it didn't make it cheaper for others when we rode 5 sleds on the trails. So when you have one group of riders paying full price simply because they have only one or two sleds, why do you think that they should subsidize your costs simply because you are riding 3 or more sleds? It's not fair to those riders to subsidize your sledding experience. That's the sad reality to this very expensive sport we all love so dearly. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cudney Racing Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I do agree with the raise in the price of the permit, especially with the costs of operations having gone up a lot since the last increase in the permit. My only hope is that the additional charge is that at least half of the rise makes it where it is needed, to the clubs who do all of the work on the trails and not ate up entirely by administration costs, if the increase made it to the clubs then I could see that maybe areas won't run out of funds to groom the trails if we have another longer than usual winter. - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo Dad Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 When I look at permit costs it is really a small portion of what it costs to ride for the winter. Include insurance, maintenance (whether you do it yourself or not), fuel (sled and tow vehicle), meals, accommodatons and suddenly $200 is pretty small. Yeah I run 2 sleds. I have had seasons where one has gone less than 400km. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailblazer Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 I couldn't agree with you more Bill. I wasn't at the AGM last year, but I think that's how the motion to increase was worded, that the increase DO go to the clubs. Someone that was there, please correct me on this. Yes, the season can be very short. We've adopted the practice that when we can ride, all other activities that can be canceled, are canceled. Goes along with my other motto. Why put off until tomorrow, that can be put off until the day after tomorrow? lol Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan XC700 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I believe most of the bitching comes from the time in which you have to buy the permit....ie....right before Christmas! Also the other thing is if you wait till when you are planning to ride you end up paying $250....so you fork out the money on the hopes you can ride the trails.....example down here.....no trails at all have to trailer minimum 45 minutes......& thats only if the southwest gets enough snow to groom on.......now saying that I'll still be buying 2 permits come next fall (in fact I sell them for our club up north). Just trying to give some other facts for people to consider before jumping down someone's throat who is considering not riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyzer Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I totally don't agree with the price increase !!! OFSC needs to increase Trail Pass sales not increase the price of the trail pass....Raising the price is not going to help....This once family sport turned Rich man sport is not going to survive... So what happens if Trail Pass sales fall another 10-15% in the next 2-3 years, charge $300-$400 for a permit ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I totally don't agree with the price increase !!! OFSC needs to increase Trail Pass sales not increase the price of the trail pass....Raising the price is not going to help....This once family sport turned Rich man sport is not going to survive... So what happens if Trail Pass sales fall another 10-15% in the next 2-3 years, charge $300-$400 for a permit ?? For you info trail permit sales did not drop this year. They are up about 8%. You watch, by next winter diesel fuel will be $1.25 a liter. Adding more sleds to the trails only increases the costs to the clubs. The clubs in the north that are down in sales need to make a lot of changes. We cannot continue to subsidize their operations when there are a ton of riders without permits. Just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I totally don't agree with the price increase !!! OFSC needs to increase Trail Pass sales not increase the price of the trail pass....Raising the price is not going to help....This once family sport turned Rich man sport is not going to survive... So what happens if Trail Pass sales fall another 10-15% in the next 2-3 years, charge $300-$400 for a permit ?? Another option would be to depend on the Volunteers to help cut the costs , but hey they aren't built like they use to be . I guess our only option is to sell all the Groomers and go back to the good old days of Box spring Drags , heaven forbid we hit a mogul or two . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I totally don't agree with the price increase !!! OFSC needs to increase Trail Pass sales not increase the price of the trail pass....Raising the price is not going to help....This once family sport turned Rich man sport is not going to survive... So what happens if Trail Pass sales fall another 10-15% in the next 2-3 years, charge $300-$400 for a permit ?? Another option would be to depend on the Volunteers to help cut the costs , but hey they aren't built like they use to be . I guess our only option is to sell all the Groomers and go back to the good old days of Box spring Drags , heaven forbid we hit a mogul or two . Hey YC ! Welcome back you old DAWG I just buried my last bedspring drag in the new driveway. Those were the days.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Yes it was voted that the individual clubs keep the $20 increase from each permit they sell to themselves, and not have it go into the provincial matrix. My worry is will individual clubs be fiscally responsible in the long run with the extra $20 ?, $200,000 -$300,000 for replacing groomers is a lot of money to come by $20 at time, when it's only coming from one clubs permit sales, rather then a provincially collected fund. The clubs who already have new/newer grooming equipment are laughing, the ones that don't not so much. Personally I would of liked to seen it 50/50'ed, $10 for the club, $5 to the provincial matrix and $5 to the provincial groomer replacement fund, for provincial distribution. Heck even go $8 for the clubs and throw $2 to admin costs, it's not like Barrie's operating costs have gone down in any way, if we don't bring admin up the same as the rest, we'll soon have high school dropouts with bubble jet printer news letters, running the admin for our $20 mil a year organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravesledding Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Just a question. Could the trails not be opened for ATV once the snowmobile season is over? Apply the same permit cost to ATV.The groomers don’t need to run in the off months. Less trail clearing and prep would be needed in the fall, ATV would keep it clear. Would this not generate more money for the clubs? Again just a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeater466 Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Most trails are on private property and these landowners allow the clubs access in the winter as less damage is likely than with atv's in the spring mud. There is a provincial ATV club and they sell passes for the public access trails that double as ATV trails in the summer (erxample - Haliburton Rail Trail). ATVs cause a lot of damage to the bush trails they drive over illegally now so how is there less trail prep? The clubs have to go in and repair this damage every fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 How long until we see a pay as you go system? Scenario: Before you go out of a ride you log on to the OFSC website. Enter your CCN, VIN, etc. The user may select the dates he or she wishes the permit to be valid for. The user will be charged accordingly. The site gives you a 3D barcode to print out which you must attach to your windshield. The police/patrol officers can scan the barcode with commodity hardware that they already have on hand anyway (as not to incur huge technology costs) to ensure that the permit is valid and not a forgery. A system like this would make trail permit purchases more appealing for various reasons which I have talked about in the past. It would save money on printing permits. It would save volunteer time. And all it would really take is a few weeks of volunteer time to implement the system. The downside is that the clubs would not be able to operate on a fixed budget. However, the pay as you go system should directly translate into grooming hours. i.e. you don't need to groom when nobody has permits purchased. In the long run I can see that it would make budgeting much easier. You wouldn't run into the problems Dubreville faced this year. And I think it would improve the OFSC operation all-round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 How long until we see a pay as you go system? Scenario:Before you go out of a ride you log on to the OFSC website. Enter your CCN, VIN, etc. The user may select the dates he or she wishes the permit to be valid for. The user will be charged accordingly. The site gives you a 3D barcode to print out which you must attach to your windshield. The police/patrol officers can scan the barcode with commodity hardware that they already have on hand anyway (as not to incur huge technology costs) to ensure that the permit is valid and not a forgery. A system like this would make trail permit purchases more appealing for various reasons which I have talked about in the past. It would save money on printing permits. It would save volunteer time. And all it would really take is a few weeks of volunteer time to implement the system. The downside is that the clubs would not be able to operate on a fixed budget. However, the pay as you go system should directly translate into grooming hours. i.e. you don't need to groom when nobody has permits purchased. In the long run I can see that it would make budgeting much easier. You wouldn't run into the problems Dubreville faced this year. And I think it would improve the OFSC operation all-round. Way too hard to police, look at the permit in passing and done deal. Do a poll asking how many were actualy stopped even once this year by some type of enforcement, just on this board alone I'm willing to bet it's less then 10%. Sure we could stand to increase revenue with a few more permits sold each year, but certainly no need for us to become the Cosco of trail systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Way too hard to police, look at the permit in passing and done deal. There's no reason why the purchased document could not be looked at in passing also. It would just contain more information if the officer has reason to be suspicious about it's legitimacy. Something the current trial permit does not provide. I was not stopped by any enforcement officers this year, but I did not see any either. In years past, when I have seen them, they stopped everyone for a close inspection of all documents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Way too hard to police, look at the permit in passing and done deal. There's no reason why the purchased document could not be looked at in passing also. It would just contain more information if the officer has reason to be suspicious about it's legitimacy. Something the current trial permit does not provide. I was not stopped by any enforcement officers this year, but I did not see any either. In years past, when I have seen them, they stopped everyone for a close inspection of all documents. Maybe I didn't understand your pay as you ride bar code thing ? As I understood it you activated it (payed) when you wanted to ride ? so my understanding was it could only be checked for validation is physically with a code reader ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teener Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 A few practical questions - Would you pre-purchase the blank stickers for the barcodes from OFSC at the beginning of the season? What happens if you run out or ruin one when printing? Are the stickers inventoried or do you just buy a pack of Avery labels? What happens if you use an inkjet printer and everything runs off? What happens if you ride through multiple districts? Or is the concept of districts eliminated? What do you do if your riding plans change due to trail conditions or you end up riding further than anticipated? Do you have to stop somewhere to buy another "barcode"? Sounds to me like a pain in the a$$. Half the time when we leave the city to go sledding, we don't even know where we will ride from or to. Also, the last thing I want is to have more interaction with police on the trails. I can see it now - the barcode is smudged and their "gun" can't read the info; next thing you know, you are facing some hefty fines, etc etc etc. No thanks. Having said that, it might be interesting on a volunteer basis to login to the OFSC website and enter your kms on the trails each time you ride. They might also want to ask riders for information on where they are eating, sleeping, buying gas, etc. This info could be used as a marketing tool to encourage communities to provide snowmobile access. While this would not be 100% scientific, it would at least provide a snapshot of riding activities for that particular season and perhaps help clubs plan a little better as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 too much govt in the trail systems now. no need to tell them, when where, and how much we ride. as far as permit sales, the border crossing issue is going to effect the u.s. people from comming to ride and buying more permits for sure... wait till 09-10 season. starting june first you need a passport or special identification to border cross. yes they have been saying it is comming but starting in a few weeks, those that havent will not go down and get special passports to go to canada for fishing, hunting, or snowmobiling. this will not effect the hardcore outdoor people who are already in compliance. this will hurt the average everyday person that may come up for the trip of a life time, or one time a year type deal. i am betting, this is going to really effect the permit sales this year. as far as permit pricing, it is what it is. i have been a big no permit raise increase person in the past but, after working closely with several groups in the clubs and different districts... all i can tell you is, get involved. find out when they start getting ready (it never stops really), find out the volunteers away from family for meetings, groomer maintainence, trail signage, brushing, patroling, all the paperwork the clubs have to do to sell permits, and get funds needed to maintain the trails. ALL WITHOUT THEMSELVES GETTING A DIME FOR THEIR LONG HOURS WORKED. pay the permit fee, or go enjoy bowling all winter. LOL! really your only option LOL! in all seriousness, sooner or later this volunteer based program of snowmobile highways will come to an abrupt end. the mnr, mto, govt, ofsc, will bankrupt the system. the districts and clubs, cannot go on being a user based pay as you go, with volunteers running the maintainence of the system for absolutely no pay involved. and when it is gone, who is there to blame? ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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