revrnd Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 49 minutes ago, Boy Oh Buoy said: And to throw another wrench into it, our mechanics at work that deal with this stuff often, inform me that if the truck is stickered you cannot tow a trailer that is not stickered; even a small light duty trailer Correct. Co-workers of my brother got pinched near Cochrane using a stickered (unmarked) cube van towind a 2 place sled trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poo Man Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 This is the first I've heard of the 2800kg law. So if I have a 3/4 ton truck with registered weight of 4500kg you can tie and enclosed trailer up to 2800kg without stickering either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, Poo Man said: This is the first I've heard of the 2800kg law. So if I have a 3/4 ton truck with registered weight of 4500kg you can tie and enclosed trailer up to 2800kg without stickering either? Nope - as soon as you connect that trailer the combined weight is over the 4500kg and both need to be inspected. See the very last line in bold. Let’s begin by defining what the term ‘vehicle’ includes when pertaining to this safety inspection. It includes, but not limited to, pickup trucks, truck tractors, trade vans, mini van or a two- and four-wheel drive sport utility vehicles (SUV) being used to transport cargo with the vehicle’s seats removed. The ‘trailer’ being towed can be, and not limited to, general purpose utility trailers, a boat, snowmobile, livestock or cargo trailers. Total Gross Weight is determined by adding the weight of the driver, passenger, fuel, equipment, tools, cargo, etc. carried by the vehicle and/or trailer. Registered Gross Weight (RGW) is the maximum weight used to determine the fee paid for the motor vehicle’s licence plates which can be found on the right (plate) portion of a vehicle’s ownership next to “REG. CROSS WT.” This weight is based on, and must be at least equal to, the actual weight of the vehicle and its heaviest load. Manufacturer’s Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (MGVWR) is established by the manufacturer and is the maximum weight the vehicle can be safely loaded. This can be found on the vehicle identification number (VIN) plate, on the driver’s door or door post on a vehicle or in the glove compartment. The yellow sticker which is granted upon passing the Annual Inspection and Safety Certificate (SSC)? According to the Ministry of Transportation (MTO), a SSC is required if: the total gross weight, registered gross weight (RGW) or manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating (MGVWR) of the vehicle exceeds 4,500 kg or 9,920 lbs. OR the combined weight of the vehicle and towed trailer or converter dolly exceeds 4,500 kg or 9,920 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxrider Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 This is a law that needs to be changed. How is it okay for someone to haul a camper trailer that is way overloaded by any type of vehicle that can make it move and yet a full sized pickup cannot tow a dual axle trailer with recreational vehicles inside without having all the mto stickers. If I am using this trailer for work than I can understand. The law needs to be rewritten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTC Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 From what I understand as long as the trailer being towed is under 2800kg and is for Recreation don't need a sticker Once you go commercial you go to the 4500 and over!!!??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, GTC said: From what I understand as long as the trailer being towed is under 2800kg and is for Recreation don't need a sticker Once you go commercial you go to the 4500 and over!!!??? A sled trailer doesn't qualify as recreational. The only one that would is one of the toy hauler RV's. So if you are towing a camper/travel trailer that is what qualifies as recreational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Here is another whole post for people to read if they want on trailer/truck stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Bottom line... it's a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 hours ago, GTC said: Yes that came from Mto officer, i was under the impressionthat I needed a sticker because I was over the 4500kg My brothers asked him this fall and that is what he said, don't need it if trailer is less then 2800 i can check with with again, he s just up the highway from our shop Yamaha4ever's post above shows how to calculate if you need the sticker in the last paragraph. It can be confusing no doubt. According to it and what I know from 43 years of selling trucks you were correct originally when you thought you needed the sticker. It wouldn't be the first time I've been involved with a MTO enforcement officer being wrong. The thing is that their bosses will not correct them because the laws are written allowing "officer's interpretation" and if that is his, so be it. We were told this by an MTO enforcement District Manager at a ATS (Automotive Trade Superintendent association) meeting at Bingaman Park in Kitchener a number of years ago. The problem is if a MTO enforcement officer or a police officer that knows the rules correctly, stops you, you could be handed a ticket. I hope that doesn't happen to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTC Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Don't meant to argue this, I'm not 100%, but there was a local home builders meeting where the Mto officer attended to give a little seminar on small trailers The question was asked about sled trailers, he specifically said they are recreation with sleds in it. Once you put tools in that trailer it's considered commercial Again I'm not 100% but intend on finding out for sure, I do not want to safety my rig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Imagine that you get a real douche bag and he tickets you because you have a tool box in your sled trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTC Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Should just put a toilet in it, call it an RV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 As was previously stated. Go to last year's posts to interpret all the above scenarios. O2, if you tow a light trailer that has been stickered to be hauled by a heavy truck, but you are using a light vehicle then cover the sticker. If they can't see a sticker then it is considered to not be there. Just make the cover relatively easy to remove so the heavy truck can easily be legal again. My recommendation, if in doubt, sticker your vehicles. The first fine is $350.00. The next one is $1000.00 and up. Somehow hotel and gas prices seem cheap by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 3 hours ago, GTC said: Don't meant to argue this, I'm not 100%, but there was a local home builders meeting where the Mto officer attended to give a little seminar on small trailers The question was asked about sled trailers, he specifically said they are recreation with sleds in it. Once you put tools in that trailer it's considered commercial Again I'm not 100% but intend on finding out for sure, I do not want to safety my rig Included below is the gov't definition of what trailers are included in the requirements for annual safety inspections/stickers. It specifically includes snowmobile trailers as being a trailer type requiring the annual safety inspection. MTO - Annual Truck and Trailer Safety Inspections March 19, 2001 (Copyright) Queen's Printer for Ontario, 1999. This is an unofficial version of Government of Ontario legal materials. For accurate reference refer to the official volumes. The Highway Traffic Act and the applicable Regulation "Safety Inspections" may be viewed on the internet at www.e-laws.gov.on.ca APPLICATION An annual safety inspection is required; On a single truck, if its actual weight, registered gross weight or gross vehicle weight rating exceeds 4,500 kilograms (9,920 lbs), or On both the truck and the towed trailer, if the combination's weight exceeds 4,500 kilograms. The combination's weight is determined by adding the greater of the truck's actual weight, registered gross weight or gross vehicle weight rating to the greater of the trailer's actual weight or gross vehicle weight rating. An explanation of these terms follows. "Truck" includes motor vehicles such as pickup trucks, and mini vans and two and four wheel drive sport utility vehicles being used to transport cargo with the vehicle's seats removed, regardless of how the vehicle is plated, e.g. car or truck, including farm truck plates. "Trailer" includes, but is not limited to, boat, snowmobile, livestock, and general purpose utility trailers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris1 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I thought our stupid laws in the states were bad. Holy moly, yours make my head spin.I can only hope,if I'm ever stopped,they see my Pennsylvania tags and wave me through. This year,drove to Kirkland Lake with a friend of mine who transports vehicles here in the states for a living to the tune of 2500 miles a week. Had 4 sleds in his enclosed v nose trailer that all 4 only had the parking brake on. I don't think 1 of them moved an inch in the 10 hour ride.I didn't feel too good about it but he has put on thousands of miles towing that way. Don't flame me too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 They probably won't move, at least until involved in a collision. Then, how well do you think the aluminum skin on the trailer will restrain a 500 pound sled? Years ago, I had a sled on an open trailer, tied down with a bar across the skis and a ratchet strap pulling forward on the ski and one on the back bumper. Someone pulled out from a stop sign in front of me and I T-boned him in the front fender. By the time my car and trailer came to rest, the sled had been ripped off the trailer and came to rest against my drivers side door. The bar that was over the skis had been bent into a pretzel and the hooks from the ratchet straps were not to be found. The trailer was the older style where the 5/8 rode went across the skis from the side of the trailer to a mount in the center. Lots of forces involved when sh!t happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris1 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 52 minutes ago, sledjunk said: They probably won't move, at least until involved in a collision. Then, how well do you think the aluminum skin on the trailer will restrain a 500 pound sled? Years ago, I had a sled on an open trailer, tied down with a bar across the skis and a ratchet strap pulling forward on the ski and one on the back bumper. Someone pulled out from a stop sign in front of me and I T-boned him in the front fender. By the time my car and trailer came to rest, the sled had been ripped off the trailer and came to rest against my drivers side door. The bar that was over the skis had been bent into a pretzel and the hooks from the ratchet straps were not to be found. The trailer was the older style where the 5/8 rode went across the skis from the side of the trailer to a mount in the center. Lots of forces involved when sh!t happens! I can't argue that. Things get ugly when collisions happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Correct SJ but if a 5/8 rod doesn't hold it then no amount of straps will unless you use 10,000 lb. straps. Even that, something will break and somebody will end up wearing the sled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 9 hours ago, Polaris1 said: I thought our stupid laws in the states were bad. Holy moly, yours make my head spin.I can only hope,if I'm ever stopped,they see my Pennsylvania tags and wave me through. This year,drove to Kirkland Lake with a friend of mine who transports vehicles here in the states for a living to the tune of 2500 miles a week. Had 4 sleds in his enclosed v nose trailer that all 4 only had the parking brake on. I don't think 1 of them moved an inch in the 10 hour ride.I didn't feel too good about it but he has put on thousands of miles towing that way. Don't flame me too bad. I don't think you will be exempt from inspection or the load security regulations because of your Penn. plates. You wouldn't be required to have the annual inspection stickers unless they are also required in Penn. All commercial vehicles (which a pickup truck falls under in Ontario) have to meet Ontario regulations (with a few exceptions for out of province vehicles). No different than when Ontario trucks go to Pennsylvania, we have meet the Penn. regulations. Your buddies driving ability is why the sleds didn't move but he can't control the actions of other drivers. Sledjunk is right though, it would be a lot easier (and make you legal) to tie the sleds down than replace a trailer wall or the whole trailer not to mention the sleds when one of our Ontario "steerers" pulls a dumb move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Driving down the hwy towing the sled trailer and in the distance I see a car in the weeds between the north & south bound lanes. I'm slowing down by just coasting and suddenly hit black ice. At one time the truck is headed toward a rock face as the truck and trailer serpentine along the road. I thought I was going to hit it for sure. I feel the computerized braking rapidly pulsing from one wheel to another. I get back on track in one piece. The sleds were clamped down on the front skis and didn't budge. The rear of the sleds, a different matter. They swung from side to side, bent/dented the tubular sidewall framing and the skins. The trailer was written off by the insurance company. The back end of the sleds are now strapped down with ratchet straps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ox Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I always question those little D rings that are screwed down in the floor of those toy trailers? I just don't see those holding much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, Ox said: I always question those little D rings that are screwed down in the floor of those toy trailers? I just don't see those holding much? Totally agree. Those things should be bolted through the floor with a large steel plate below the floor at the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetman Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 12 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: Included below is the gov't definition of what trailers are included in the requirements for annual safety inspections/stickers. It specifically includes snowmobile trailers as being a trailer type requiring the annual safety inspection. MTO - Annual Truck and Trailer Safety Inspections March 19, 2001 (Copyright) Queen's Printer for Ontario, 1999. This is an unofficial version of Government of Ontario legal materials. For accurate reference refer to the official volumes. The Highway Traffic Act and the applicable Regulation "Safety Inspections" may be viewed on the internet at www.e-laws.gov.on.ca APPLICATION An annual safety inspection is required; On a single truck, if its actual weight, registered gross weight or gross vehicle weight rating exceeds 4,500 kilograms (9,920 lbs), or On both the truck and the towed trailer, if the combination's weight exceeds 4,500 kilograms. The combination's weight is determined by adding the greater of the truck's actual weight, registered gross weight or gross vehicle weight rating to the greater of the trailer's actual weight or gross vehicle weight rating. An explanation of these terms follows. "Truck" includes motor vehicles such as pickup trucks, and mini vans and two and four wheel drive sport utility vehicles being used to transport cargo with the vehicle's seats removed, regardless of how the vehicle is plated, e.g. car or truck, including farm truck plates. "Trailer" includes, but is not limited to, boat, snowmobile, livestock, and general purpose utility trailers. I read this to mean that the inspection requirement is needed on a trailer used to carry snowmobiles if either bullet 1 or 2 apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetman Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 11 hours ago, Polaris1 said: I thought our stupid laws in the states were bad. Holy moly, yours make my head spin.I can only hope,if I'm ever stopped,they see my Pennsylvania tags and wave me through. This year,drove to Kirkland Lake with a friend of mine who transports vehicles here in the states for a living to the tune of 2500 miles a week. Had 4 sleds in his enclosed v nose trailer that all 4 only had the parking brake on. I don't think 1 of them moved an inch in the 10 hour ride.I didn't feel too good about it but he has put on thousands of miles towing that way. Don't flame me too bad. The appearance of an effort to secure the load is key in this situation. You need to use straps which list the strength, and ideally 2 at front and two at the back. I have the front ski bar lock down, (so no front straps)and use one over capacity (rating exceeds weight of sled) strap on the back, which hooks into the rear plate in the Triton rail. Now, I haven't been stopped yet, but I consider that I have made a reasonable man effort to secure the sled, should I be stopped.Strap kits are always on sale, so what is 30 bucks when most of us are riding 10K machines. No straps, I'm just making it easy for a ticket with no defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 19 minutes ago, Gadgetman said: I read this to mean that the inspection requirement is needed on a trailer used to carry snowmobiles if either bullet 1 or 2 apply. I would completely agree with your interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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