tireless Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 okay then nobody has a answer, or seems to want to do anything about our trails and groomers so we will follow along like sheep and kiss the premier on Ontarios $ss!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 okay then nobody has a answer, or seems to want to do anything about our trails and groomers so we will follow along like sheep and kiss the premier on Ontarios $ss!!!! What do you have in mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 okay then nobody has a answer, or seems to want to do anything about our trails and groomers so we will follow along like sheep and kiss the premier on Ontarios $ss!!!! No it seems that the clubs are kissing the OFSC and the Governors with MOTS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 guys we would all like to have new groomers but not viable it has to do with preseason check and maintenance by qualified mechanics. even new groomers after a couple of years will be unreliable if not properly maintained. a lot of farmers have their equipment thoroughly checked over in winter by factory trained mechanics who find small problems to be fixed before they turn into major down time. volunteers do what they can but not enough knowledge to spot future trouble like a trained eye can. if the ofsc spent half the groomer fund money on professional maintenance and repair how many more very reliable groomers would be on the snow today. Just think how many mechanic hours and parts would be paid with $ 300,000 Most farmers do their own Maintaince. I rarely use mechanics, just when something major is going wrong, like ball joints for instance. We are finding it is cheaper to do basic Maintaince then get rid of the unit around 5 or so years and get a new one. Keeping anything to long and it becomes junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Wow..We all know what the problem in, or we think we do..So, what is the solution? And I don't mean raising permit prices because we all agree on that. Fewer kms of trail it seems maybe the real answer, sadly. Here in D5 groomers didn't move all winter. Think there would be a way to move those units north and let clubs like dub use it, until it is needed back in the south. I know float chargers are heavy, but just sitting around waiting for snow isn't the answer either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techdenis007 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I tend to agree, unfortunately, but within logical limits. If 5 years from now the groomer reduction program makes clubs streamline their trails slightly to compensate for less groomers, at the end of it the remaining trails should be of equal or better quality than they would be if the trails weren't reduced. That make any sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterules Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Simple question. Have some of the southern OFSC Districts already received, or are scheduled to receive, their one 'Free' Groomer and Drag? Sauble received a new groomer a few weeks ago . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I tend to agree, unfortunately, but within logical limits. If 5 years from now the groomer reduction program makes clubs streamline their trails slightly to compensate for less groomers, at the end of it the remaining trails should be of equal or better quality than they would be if the trails weren't reduced. That make any sense?No, it doesn't make sense, if you close trails in the best selling districts, you will loose more permits then you will gain from the savings... There are lots of people in District 1 and 5 who will never trailer their sleds so closing trails will cut in the permit revenue.... The funny part is that we have lots of guys who have never seen financials of the clubs in their districts or from different districts. Closing trails in great selling districts is sue side....Where are the saving coming from? Any numbers to proof it? Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 The funny part is that we have lots of guys who have never seen financials of the clubs in their districts or from different districts. That is putting it mildly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blizzard Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Most farmers do their own Maintaince. I rarely use mechanics, just when something major is going wrong, like ball joints for instance. We are finding it is cheaper to do basic Maintaince then get rid of the unit around 5 or so years and get a new one. Keeping anything to long and it becomes junk. [ /quote] Exactly my point only use trained mechanics after it is broke totally wrong attitude they save you a lot of money and down time checking over machinery in the off season.This mentality of new groomers or nothing will be the straw that broke the camel`s back for the ofsc at the current trail pass price.Do whatever you want on your farm but it is not going to work here.Is closing trails really what snowmobilers want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techdenis007 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 No, it doesn't make sense, if you close trails in the best selling districts, you will loose more permits then you will gain from the savings... There are lots of people in District 1 and 5 who will never trailer their sleds so closing trails will cut in the permit revenue.... The funny part is that we have lots of guys who have never seen financials of the clubs in their districts or from different districts. Closing trails in great selling districts is sue side.... Where are the saving coming from? Any numbers to proof it? Thanks Greg I stand corrected ... apparently I don't know crap about crap. Sorry for wasting your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 No, it doesn't make sense, if you close trails in the best selling districts, you will loose more permits then you will gain from the savings... There are lots of people in District 1 and 5 who will never trailer their sleds so closing trails will cut in the permit revenue.... The funny part is that we have lots of guys who have never seen financials of the clubs in their districts or from different districts. Closing trails in great selling districts is sue side.... Where are the saving coming from? Any numbers to proof it? Thanks Greg I think its time you realized that this change is happening and either embrace it and help make it work the best it can or make another choice. Don't risk your health fighting it. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I think its time you realized that this change is happening and either embrace it and help make it work the best it can or make another choice. Don't risk your health fighting it. IMHO. I look at all the possibilities with the information I have and I am open for any change as long as we gain more then we loose. What change do you think will work well for snowmobiling in Ontario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I think its time you realized that this change is happening and either embrace it and help make it work the best it can or make another choice. Don't risk your health fighting it. IMHO.lmao,some people will never change their minds, nor accept change. I guess it is everyone else that is clueless, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 lmao,some people will never change their minds, nor accept change. I guess it is everyone else that is clueless, lol You tell me what we need to change to make snowmobiling sustainable in Ontario? The OFSC plan with MOTS doesn't cut it, there is not enough revenue to pay for the new groomers in my opinion. If I am wrong, please tell me where the savings to buy 20 or more new groomers from? Tell me please also what I need to change in my mind? I am involved in organized snowmobiling for more then 10 years, have done everything possible at my local club from signage, driver training to be the president for years. Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterules Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 You tell me what we need to change to make snowmobiling sustainable in Ontario? The OFSC plan with MOTS doesn't cut it, there is not enough revenue to pay for the new groomers in my opinion. If I am wrong, please tell me where the savings to buy 20 or more new groomers from? Tell me please also what I need to change in my mind? I am involved in organized snowmobiling for more then 10 years, have done everything possible at my local club from signage, driver training to be the president for years. Thanks, Greg If there's not enough revenue increase the revenue and up the dam permit price . $180 is way to cheap for what we get your pay that for a round of golf and dinner at Cobble . I'm sure most sledders won't have a issue paying another $100 bucks a year . My yearly atv pass is $150 only $30 less and your not buying groomers out of it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 You tell me what we need to change to make snowmobiling sustainable in Ontario? The OFSC plan with MOTS doesn't cut it, there is not enough revenue to pay for the new groomers in my opinion. If I am wrong, please tell me where the savings to buy 20 or more new groomers from? Tell me please also what I need to change in my mind? I am involved in organized snowmobiling for more then 10 years, have done everything possible at my local club from signage, driver training to be the president for years. Thanks, Greg Hang on tight it is going to be a bumpy ride. We are selling the permits too cheap and abandoning enforcement . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Hang on tight it is going to be a bumpy ride. We are selling the permits too cheap and abandoning enforcement . I understand that, but the OFSC and MOTS will not change the permit price. So you want to sit back and let the MOTS fail or we need to come up with another plan what make more sense and what will be more sustainable for the future? Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 If there's not enough revenue increase the revenue and up the dam permit price . $180 is way to cheap for what we get your pay that for a round of golf and dinner at Cobble . I'm sure most sledders won't have a issue paying another $100 bucks a year . My yearly atv pass is $150 only $30 less and your not buying groomers out of it . Increasing the permit price is necessary to make snowmobiling in Ontario more sustainable. But we need to do more. The MOTS of the OFSC isn't a good sustainable plan so we need to come up with a better plan, I think.... Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the replacement numbers will be adjusted going forward. We are just removing junk right now. We need to start somewhere. ..if u want it fixed tomorrow your off your Flippin rocker. Further more,if you have seen all the numbers, you have seen how much money has been spent repairing junk....so why are you bound and bent that this is the wrong direction. You think all 16 governors are delusional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterules Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Increasing the permit price is necessary to make snowmobiling in Ontario more sustainable. But we need to do more. The MOTS of the OFSC isn't a good sustainable plan so we need to come up with a better plan, I think.... Thanks, Greg Well if its necessary lets hope they increase it then . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the replacement numbers will be adjusted going forward. We are just removing junk right now. We need to start somewhere. ..if u want it fixed tomorrow your off your Flippin rocker. Further more,if you have seen all the numbers, you have seen how much money has been spent repairing junk....so why are you bound and bent that this is the wrong direction. You think all 16 governors are delusional? From where did you get it that the districts with the newer groomers are spending less money on maintenance? If you have a groomer with the average value of $30,000 the amortization is $6000 and for a $300,000 groomer it will be $ 60,000 the first year, how many clubs can't afford that? What is a junk groomer an how many do we have in Ontario. What is the average groomer maintenance cost? I guess between $6,000 and $8,000 a year, that isn't that bad? I think that the savings on the newer groomers are not that much to throw the older groomers away. As I said earlier, I think we can't afford the new groomers as planned. I am not sure what w are paying for insurance premium for all groomers together, something about $300,000. I guess that the average age of all groomers is about 2003, if we go to a newer fleet it will easy double the premium. Again more cost. Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 The thorn in the saddle is that these emission friendly engines are not as reliable as the older ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 From where did you get it that the districts with the newer groomers are spending less money on maintenance? If you have a groomer with the average value of $30,000 the amortization is $6000 and for a $300,000 groomer it will be $ 60,000 the first year, how many clubs can't afford that? What is a junk groomer an how many do we have in Ontario. What is the average groomer maintenance cost? I guess between $6,000 and $8,000 a year, that isn't that bad? I think that the savings on the newer groomers are not that much to throw the older groomers away. As I said earlier, I think we can't afford the new groomers as planned. I am not sure what w are paying for insurance premium for all groomers together, something about $300,000. I guess that the average age of all groomers is about 2003, if we go to a newer fleet it will easy double the premium. Again more cost. Thanks Greg From where did you get it that the districts with the newer groomers are spending less money on maintenance? If you have a groomer with the average value of $30,000 the amortization is $6000 and for a $300,000 groomer it will be $ 60,000 the first year, how many clubs can't afford that? What is a junk groomer an how many do we have in Ontario. What is the average groomer maintenance cost? I guess between $6,000 and $8,000 a year, that isn't that bad? I think that the savings on the newer groomers are not that much to throw the older groomers away. As I said earlier, I think we can't afford the new groomers as planned. I am not sure what w are paying for insurance premium for all groomers together, something about $300,000. I guess that the average age of all groomers is about 2003, if we go to a newer fleet it will easy double the premium. Again more cost. Thanks Greg your first paragraph, highlight one of my posts where I said that, or anything close to it. I don't care if you put words in someone else's mouth, but you needent do it to me thanks. Furthermore, you clearly haven't seen anything as far as specific numbers on specific junk groomers. If you don't have faith in the system and the people putting their time into it, why don't you focus on getting yourself into a governor position? Yappin about stuff on here that you clearly have no clue about is a waste of time. What have you accomplished here anyway...anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Wildman, I am happy that you know it all, the future will tell the truth. It doesn't make sense to fight here who is right you or me. I hope for you that you are right, get the old "junk" of the trail have all new groomers and have still money left for trail work, administration, facilities and so on. Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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