Big Pete Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Reducing the 30% does not reduce the total funding to the district/club. It moves it to the EQ payment. Maybe a tweak to the payment schedule would address the start up cost issue. Let's say 20% Oct 15, 15%Nov 15, 15% Dec 15, 15% Jan 31, 15% Feb 28 and 20% May 31. This would be on top of the 10% of permit sales on Nov 5, Dec 5 and May 31. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hopefully the clubs with the oldest and most hours will get replaced first. Won't get much for the old units though, since it is specialized equipment. Be interesting how this will play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hopefully the clubs with the oldest and most hours will get replaced first. Won't get much for the old units though, since it is specialized equipment. Be interesting how this will play out. What if the club with the second oldest groomer and just a few less groomer hours grooms twice as much trail as the club with the oldest groomer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 What if the club with the second oldest groomer and just a few less groomer hours grooms twice as much trail as the club with the oldest groomer? Then that club should have idled there groomer a few more hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 So I'm wondering, from what you are saying, does that kind of kick the stilts out from under the whole "buy where you ride" marketing? Don't believe so, bottom line is the more you make the less EQ you will need to meet you financial balance. Clubs and districts that have enough permit sales to function on their 30% don't need as much financial assistance as those who cant. But then again I don't believe that has all been worked out, Another point that hasn't been mentioned and was brought up at AGM was setting the standard for grooming distance which I believe was somewhere around 120-130 per unit if not mistaken. I am hearing that this is all part of what the OFSC is looking at. Districts submit a 5 yr plan to identify groomer fleet reduction/replacement and re-establishing grooming routes to maximize usage at that 120-130 km range. Now( and I do not know the answer) I would hope that there is a common sense clause ( and you needed STG for a laugh?) in their for specific situations. The OFSC will fund 100 percent once criteria has been met on whatever ratio they have established. Clubs or districts wishing to replace/purchase other units are on their own financially with no OFSC assistance and this still must fall within their 5 yr plan. My club, as well as probably another 9 in this district, do not have groomers so the reality of a club losing "its groomer" doesn't hit me the same .( 3 grooming associations) No payroll/no groomer logs/ no 2am I'm broken down calls, no more of the expenses attached to grooming ( district pays wages and fuel) . There is no lose of club identity with not having you own "headache" Just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whits-end Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Idled the GPS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Faceman , if a District can meet its operating requirements from the 30% of permit sales, why would they get any EQ pyts? No need to save for new groomers, those are all funded provincially. As to the 5 year plan, the OFSC has already done that. Our Gov has already told us we are supposed to get 18 new groomers in the next 5 years. What they have not told us is the required reductions attached to the new ones. We are anticipating a net reduction of 7-10 groomers. So that means 25-28 have to go. We were also told if a club goes out and fundraises for a new groomer it will replace one of the 18 the OFSC will fund. So why would a club go through all the work to raise $250k when the OFSC will fund it anyway. As to common sense, you have more faith than I do. Let's start with the current round of new groomers. I think we can agree that some Districts are in far more desperate need than others. (And I would agree that every District has a need so the decision is who has the greatest need) But instead of allocating based on need the political decision was made to give 1 to each. The reason I say it was political is that the board has a vote pending on MOTS at next AGM. Tougher sell in a district that might not have got a groomer in a needs based scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Faceman , if a District can meet its operating requirements from the 30% of permit sales, why would they get any EQ pyts? No need to save for new groomers, those are all funded provincially. As to the 5 year plan, the OFSC has already done that. Our Gov has already told us we are supposed to get 18 new groomers in the next 5 years. What they have not told us is the required reductions attached to the new ones. We are anticipating a net reduction of 7-10 groomers. So that means 25-28 have to go. We were also told if a club goes out and fundraises for a new groomer it will replace one of the 18 the OFSC will fund. So why would a club go through all the work to raise $250k when the OFSC will fund it anyway. As to common sense, you have more faith than I do. Let's start with the current round of new groomers. I think we can agree that some Districts are in far more desperate need than others. (And I would agree that every District has a need so the decision is who has the greatest need) But instead of allocating based on need the political decision was made to give 1 to each. The reason I say it was political is that the board has a vote pending on MOTS at next AGM. Tougher sell in a district that might not have got a groomer in a needs based scenario. Agreed on the EQ Correct on the reductions If , the district requirement for reductions is defined in a 5 yr plan, is there anything wrong with the district meeting these efficiencies prior to the 5 yr and can the district or clubs within upgrade the fleet with their own funds and no affect the "free" groomer from the OFSC? One thing that has to change, and yes its a tough sell it, the groomers, according to what I have read will be "district groomers". Its a change in title that does not affect who operates or maintains the unit. The OFSC talks about efficiencies from groomer re-alignment to achieve their the plan of 130-140 K per unit. My club does not have a groomer as we are part of an association but I still refer to it as mine. And is there anything wrong with several clubs partnering to achieve the numbers. My common sense comment was directed towards clubs and districts have specific situations where that might no physically be possible due to geography. I believe the replacement is based, among others on 10 years and/ or 5000k. The groomer fleet management study was where the OFSC identified these units although in a broad base. My only real issues with that specific report was the lack of support for tractor units and the failure to identify or address maintenance ( which I believe will ultimately still fall under that 30%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Then that club should have idled there groomer a few more hours. I guess you haven't read about the tracking systems that the OFSC has put in the groomers. Oh wait, you have because you commented on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I guess you haven't read about the tracking systems that the OFSC has put in the groomers. Oh wait, you have because you commented on them.What does that have to do with the engine hour reading for replacing the unit though? Some clubs will idle these units more because of the extreme cold. I wouldn't shut them off either. Nothing to see a grooming idling during shift change or while he comes into club house for a beverage, while people take pics of the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I guess you haven't read about the tracking systems that the OFSC has put in the groomers. Oh wait, you have because you commented on them. You can fight with him, I blocked him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCC Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I thought when we vote on more on the snow at OFSC AGM in September it was in principle only and for this season it was business as usually. But now clubs and districts have been told to reduce their fleets this season or no new groomer for the district. SO MUCH FOR BUSINESS AS USUALLY! I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threadman Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I thought when we vote on more on the snow at OFSC AGM in September it was in principle only and for this season it was business as usually. But now clubs and districts have been told to reduce their fleets this season or no new groomer for the district. SO MUCH FOR BUSINESS AS USUALLY! I seams like every district is different our club hns is having problems keeping trails open due to varous reasons so thier wont be as many k ms to groom and a lot of road running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pembroke Stratos 285XL Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I thought when we vote on more on the snow at OFSC AGM in September it was in principle only and for this season it was business as usually. But now clubs and districts have been told to reduce their fleets this season or no new groomer for the district. SO MUCH FOR BUSINESS AS USUALLY! I And will be affecting your club in a negative way with the loss of one of your groomers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threadman Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 And will be affecting your club in a negative way with the loss of one of your groomers... i hope that it will not affect us as we are part of a grooming association. will affect touring riders as we have lost major connection which is now going to be alot of road running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 i think we are moving too fast on this matter. When you start offering up a Free Groomer to each District with certain conditions attached there is going to be some acrimony and maybe worse. Yes this will be much easier for a District like STP that handles all the grooming but in our District it is every Club for themselves and this takes considerable time and negotiations to bring about a fair solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I thought when we vote on more on the snow at OFSC AGM in September it was in principle only and for this season it was business as usually. But now clubs and districts have been told to reduce their fleets this season or no new groomer for the district. SO MUCH FOR BUSINESS AS USUALLY! I We were also told that should a club/association sell a unit the money now goes to the District. Not sure how they (OFSC) can mandate that but to me it's just the beginning of the take over and the demise of the local club. Welcome to MOTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliotgroomer Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 District 13 was over the kms. of trail groomed per groomer in the report but rumor has it that they want us to reduce our fleet by 3 or 4 units. Yes some things have changed in the district since the report like the closing of the F trail from Aubrey to Missanabie, but the D trail to Wawa is being reopened as well as a new trail from Chapleau to Halfway haven and the reopening of the trail to Folyette. And the inclusion of Marathon gives us 3 more junk groomers in the district. The district govenor and ASPA president are to address our membership on Nov. 30 to clear up any misconceptions so will wait untill then to comment further Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkids Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I think D12 is over the recommend KMS per groomer already !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 i hope that it will not affect us as we are part of a grooming association. will affect touring riders as we have lost major connection which is now going to be alot of road running What major connection are you referring too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCC Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Yes it a negative affect to our club, I don't know how volunteers are going to feel about losing groomers. This is just the start of more on the snow and I already have a bad feeling about how its going to affect volunteers. I know today, it's making me think about why I volunteer so many hours to snowmobiling, so how is it going to affect other volunteers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pembroke Stratos 285XL Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Yes it a negative affect to our club, I don't know how volunteers are going to feel about losing groomers. This is just the start of more on the snow and I already have a bad feeling about how its going to affect volunteers. I know today, it's making me think about why I volunteer so many hours to snowmobiling, so how is it going to affect other volunteers? I was one (of the few) that totally disagreed with the reduction of the permit price last year. The More on the Snow initiative is now needed because there was less on the snow thanks to the devaluation of the permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 We were also told that should a club/association sell a unit the money now goes to the District. Not sure how they (OFSC) can mandate that but to me it's just the beginning of the take over and the demise of the local club. Welcome to MOTS. Not so! If a club/association should sell a groomer now (meaning this year) the money will stay with the club/association. Next year and after, when and if a groomer is sold the money would go to the district OFSC is not trying to take over clubs Also it should be noted that if a club chooses to remove a groomer from their books, and transfer the insurance from OFSC to themselves, it is perfectly acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 i hope that it will not affect us as we are part of a grooming association. will affect touring riders as we have lost major connection which is now going to be alot of road running HNSC has some of the best signed and groomed trails in the district, Nothing to indicate that anything negative will happen. Landowner issues, if that is what you are referring to with road running has no connection to MOTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threadman Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 HNSC has some of the best signed and groomed trails in the district, Nothing to indicate that anything negative will happen. Landowner issues, if that is what you are referring to with road running has no connection to MOTS HNSC has some of the best signed and groomed trails in the district, Nothing to indicate that anything negative will happen. Landowner issues, if that is what you are referring to with road running has no connection to MOTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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