02Sled Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 You probably could add to this that we also had great snow basically everywhere. the only thing quantifiable however is that they didn't buy a permit in 2013 and participated in the 2013 Try Our Trails but did buy a permit in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowchopper Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I am sure the free weekend has brought some new sledders into the sport and has revived some previous sledders that have stepped away from the sport but the OFSC needs to be a little more diligent and making sure these free pass sledders have insurance. I mention this because one of my regular stops for gas on my lake the owner was telling me he was talking to a guy about his free pass weekend. Guy said it great to have a free pass weekend. The resort owner then made a comment that you still have to have insurance. The free pass guy said he did not have to show proof of insurance to get his free pass. So how many free pass guys also have no insurance. This is why like I stated in an earlier post I voted "no". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 These Same sledders have no problem spending 30 bucks to eat lunch or supper while out on the trails. I am sure the extra traffic has helped some restaurants too, so it is positive for some area's. Having no insurance, the police should be out in full force on the free weekend and checking free sledders for proof of ownership and insurance, and Val tag! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I am sure the free weekend has brought some new sledders into the sport and has revived some previous sledders that have stepped away from the sport but the OFSC needs to be a little more diligent and making sure these free pass sledders have insurance. I mention this because one of my regular stops for gas on my lake the owner was telling me he was talking to a guy about his free pass weekend. Guy said it great to have a free pass weekend. The resort owner then made a comment that you still have to have insurance. The free pass guy said he did not have to show proof of insurance to get his free pass. So how many free pass guys also have no insurance. This is why like I stated in an earlier post I voted "no". At the same time however you don't have to have proof of insurance to get your full season permit or your val tag from the MTO at the Ontario Services or online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I am sure the free weekend has brought some new sledders into the sport and has revived some previous sledders that have stepped away from the sport but the OFSC needs to be a little more diligent and making sure these free pass sledders have insurance. I mention this because one of my regular stops for gas on my lake the owner was telling me he was talking to a guy about his free pass weekend. Guy said it great to have a free pass weekend. The resort owner then made a comment that you still have to have insurance. The free pass guy said he did not have to show proof of insurance to get his free pass. So how many free pass guys also have no insurance. This is why like I stated in an earlier post I voted "no". At some point it becomes the responsibility of that individual we cannot be held responsible for their behaviour we do not check insurance for any type of pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The metrics from Try Our Trails. As per the Insurance Bureau there are 149,000 snowmobiles insured in Ontario That number is probably a lot closer to reality than the 1 the MTO throws around (300,000) for sleds in Ont'. That being said I have in insurance on my Elan, but it hasn't been registered since the early 90s. These Same sledders have no problem spending 30 bucks to eat lunch or supper while out on the trails. Last winter on the freebie weekend, I was waiting for some buddies to meet me @ the local gas station. Five or 6 pulled up to fill up & all had the pass on the windshield. I can't imagine all the sleds were sitting in a shed or garage up to that weekend, especially with the great season we were having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPK Racing Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Not everyone that insures or drives a sled goes on OFSC trails. To think that everyone who owns a sled in Ontario should by a trail pass is a bit short sighted. Many have other opportunities to ride their sleds that are in no way connected to the OFSC trails. I have three of my sleds insured and the last time I bought any kind of permit was a full season on my 2010 Tundra when I bought it new. I probably won't be buying another one any time soon as OFSC trail riding is just not on my snowmobiling agenda at this point. That would include any free weekend as well. I don't feel one bit guilty about that either. As far as those that ride the trails without buying a permit, eventually they will get caught. In the mean time, enjoy your own riding opportunities where ever that may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther340 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Not everyone that insures or drives a sled goes on OFSC trails. To think that everyone who owns a sled in Ontario should by a trail pass is a bit short sighted. Many have other opportunities to ride their sleds that are in no way connected to the OFSC trails. I have three of my sleds insured and the last time I bought any kind of permit was a full season on my 2010 Tundra when I bought it new. I probably won't be buying another one any time soon as OFSC trail riding is just not on my snowmobiling agenda at this point. That would include any free weekend as well. I don't feel one bit guilty about that either. As far as those that ride the trails without buying a permit, eventually they will get caught. In the mean time, enjoy your own riding opportunities where ever that may be. Amen !!! X2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apeXMAN Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Ok I was looking at a sled and the emails went back and fourth when I questioned the guy about the mileage on the sled. Because his listing said that it had 2000kms and the pics he sent me showed 800kms.It had no reg.numbers on it and no trail permit.So I asked him how the mileage was so different and how did you ride it without reg. numbers and a permit.This is his response. I drove the sled personally. It had 800km when I bought it, it now has 2000km on it because I put 1200km on it this year. I have the registration numbers (5af421) for the sled and the 2014 license sticker. I rode with them in my pocket because I never got a chance to get nice numbers made and I wasn't going to put the ugly registration plate on it. As for the trail permit I went on one trip this year and was going to buy it off an official when I saw one.. Never saw one so I never bought one. The rest of my riding was just around my small county because we had so much snow this year and I didn't by a trail permit for that because no one checks for them around here. The one trip I went on was 1000km and the rest was just putting around here. I have nothing to hide about the sled.. I am a registered dealer and have to be honest. The sled only has 2000km on it, If you choose not to believe or understand that there is nothing I can do. But if you can't trust me then I feel you should have a hard time trusting anyone out there. Attached is a scanned picture of the ownership and registration numbers. Needless to say I never replied to him.This is what people think is honest...He is a car dealer that brought this sled from Quebec to sell here.He went on a 1000km trip without a permit on the sled he said...I think there are a lot more of these honest sledders out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPK Racing Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Does it surprise you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apeXMAN Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 No and he to"did not feel one bit guilty about that either" All of those that ride without a permit don't eventually get caught as you said. Crap 1200 kms is a good run on a $10,000 2013 sled. I think its time to make every licensed sled pay for a trail permit even if they dont use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPK Racing Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Nice. Do you really think your play on my words is going to encourage me to buy a trail permit? Why would I buy a trail permit when I don't trail ride? It is a user pay system. That would be like saying every snowmobiler in Bruce County should pay admission to my race even though they don't come to it. I know, maybe everyone that owns a car in Ontario should pay a toll for the 407 whether they use it or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apeXMAN Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The new or current sleds should buy one is what I was saying .. The old sleds should get a reduction. If all sleds had permits then they could all go to your races that you locate OFSC trails... Minnesota has a system that is more friendly to all sledders with more types of licenses Here is there fees and regulations http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/licenses/snowmobile/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPK Racing Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Do you really want the Province to hold the purse strings for snowmobile trails? As for sleds coming to our race, the ratio historically has been about between 10 and 20 to 1 people in cars vs people on sleds. Not the first year we have been close to an OFSC trail. It is not something I look for in a location but if it happens to be close, then it does allow people on sleds to drive to the race. Sled parking becomes a much bigger issue as they require a separate parking area to vehicles and that is not always possible. We do not want any sleds parked where the race track is for insurance reasons and that puts limitations on where sleds can be parked. Our 1st and foremost concern is for the racers and then the spectators that drive there and park in the main parking lots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 No and he to"did not feel one bit guilty about that either" All of those that ride without a permit don't eventually get caught as you said. Crap 1200 kms is a good run on a $10,000 2013 sled. I think its time to make every licensed sled pay for a trail permit even if they dont use it. The only answer is larger fines and increased enforcement. Nail a few people hard in all Area's of the province and you will see sales increase drastically on trail permits. I once rode several seasons without a valid Val tag, but always bought a permit. Never once was I stopped about not having a valid Val tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowchopper Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 At the same time however you don't have to have proof of insurance to get your full season permit or your val tag from the MTO at the Ontario Services or online. When I get a val tag renewal for my car and sled you have to fill out the sheet. And one of the lines asks you for the name of your insurance company and policy number. Isn't that showing proof of insurance??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 When I get a val tag renewal for my car and sled you have to fill out the sheet. And one of the lines asks you for the name of your insurance company and policy number. Isn't that showing proof of insurance??? You need to do that for your car but not for your sled. Don't know why but the MTO Service Ontario told me multiple times I don't need to provide proof of insurance for the sled or put it on the form. Or even online renewals as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 While you do need to register your sled, you do NOT need insurance if, and only if, you only operate the sled on your own property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowchopper Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 You need to do that for your car but not for your sled. Don't know why but the MTO Service Ontario told me multiple times I don't need to provide proof of insurance for the sled or put it on the form. Or even online renewals as well. I have never been told that I don't have to fill it out but I do anyway. Guess I like to make sure I am doing the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogirl69 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 The only answer is larger fines and increased enforcement. Nail a few people hard in all Area's of the province and you will see sales increase drastically on trail permits. I once rode several seasons without a valid Val tag, but always bought a permit. Never once was I stopped about not having a valid Val tag. Well you are an idiot. No Valtag means you are not covered on your insurance. If you kill someone you are on the hook because the insurance company can deny everything because the sled is not legal on the trail or road. Saving $25 could cost you Millions. Also posting that you are screwing the system isn't too smart either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white dragon Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Well you are an idiot. No Valtag means you are not covered on your insurance. If you kill someone you are on the hook because the insurance company can deny everything because the sled is not legal on the trail or road. Saving $25 could cost you Millions. Also posting that you are screwing the system isn't too smart either. don t hold back doogirl...let it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Better give Viperules700 a chance to find his helmet first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 You need to do that for your car but not for your sled. Don't know why but the MTO Service Ontario told me multiple times I don't need to provide proof of insurance for the sled or put it on the form. Or even online renewals as well. Just got the 2015 val tags for the car, bike and both sleds, 3 weeks ago before the prices went up September 1st. They asked for the INS info on the sleds, and the milage same as the car and bike this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrafrozen Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Just got the 2015 val tags for the car, bike and both sleds, 3 weeks ago before the prices went up September 1st. They asked for the INS info on the sleds, and the milage same as the car and bike this year. I did the car and two sleds recently at the Service Ontario office and was specifically told "no proof of insurance required for the sleds". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I did the car and two sleds recently at the Service Ontario office and was specifically told "no proof of insurance required for the sleds". this needs to change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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