Viperules700 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Short and sweet. I am completely in favour of the Try Our Trails Weekend ! I also believe the best time for it is the Family Day weekend. I might be convinced there is a better weekend, but it will take some doing. Why not around Xmas time! Most people have time off and would be willing to travel to open trails to ride! Give people a taste early, so they will be more likely to purchase a full season or classic permit that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Why not around Xmas time! Most people have time off and would be willing to travel to open trails to ride! Give people a taste early, so they will be more likely to purchase a full season or classic permit that season. very unlikely that trails can be open reliably for christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Short and sweet. I am completely in favour of the Try Our Trails Weekend ! I also believe the best time for it is the Family Day weekend. I might be convinced there is a better weekend, but it will take some doing. The Try Our Trails has had some success however I wouldn't call it a huge success. The idea is to get people who aren't buying permits to see what they are missing and to buy a permit. Each of the two years there have been approximately 15,000 free permits issued. In 2012/2013 there were 70,210 full season permits sold. That includes classic. I am looking at that season as those numbers don't include the early $180 permit and the massive snowfall which brought the next season sales way up. That season there were 14,699 registered Try Our Trails permits.There is also a significant number of people on the trails that weekend who don't register for the free permit and display it on their sled. Couldn't give you an exact number but a lot of the people I have spoken to on that weekend and mentioned to them they need the free permit on their sled responded with "what permit? It's a free weekend." All they new or cared was that it was free and didn't bother to register. Making it a modest percentage of the 14,699 lets say there are now 17,000 sleds riding our trails for free that weekend. That means that of the total sleds likely out on the trails that weekend 20% of them were riding for free on what everyone that bought a permit paid for. That percentage of sleds on the trails would have in fact been higher since I know a number of permit buyers avoided the trails that weekend due to the high traffic volume and the number of people riding with a total disregard for safety or others on the trails. A portion of those that enjoyed the free weekend were locals that who typically ride mid week without a permit due to the exceptionally small chance they would get caught mid week. Many tend to ride with $260 wrapped around their ownership in case they do get caught. Now they come out on the weekend and ride with impunity. Of those that took advantage of the free permit weekend in 2012/2013 approximately 4,000 actually bought permits for the 2013/2014 season. That is 23%. Now the question lies in how many of those were a result of the Try Our Trails or how many were a result of the fantastic season we had that just kept on going? Let's be generous and allocate it 50/50 since of those that registered for the free permit in the 2013/2014 season only 2400 were repeats yet there were 15,593 free permits issued that year. That would mean that the real uplift of letting 17,000 people use our trails for free on what would be the busiest and best weekend for those that pay for the system is in fact 2,000 new permits or an increase of 2.7% in total permit sales. Even if you look at the total 4,000 permits that is still only an uplift of 5.4%, Some of which must definitely be attributable to the fantastic snow fall. While that is an increase it is not a large increase. If we were talking double digit increases I would agree on it being the huge success that some claim. 2012/2013 = 14,699 and 2013/2014 = 15,593 free permits. Of that 30,292 free permits issued over the 2 season only 2400 of those were repeat registrations. That means that over 2 years there were 27,892 unique permits issued. We will have to wait to see what the yield is for this season of how many of the 15,593 free permits issued last season buy full season permits for the coming 2014/2015 season. With the free weekend being in February virtually nobody is going to say wow I had a great time and rush out and lay down $260 for the rest of the season. They MAY say "I think I might buy a permit next year" but that is while the riding is still fresh in their mind. Some have suggested the free weekend be at Christmas however riding at Christmas (if there is enough snow) for most is a bonus and I know for me even if there is snow it is a very busy family time. If there were a free weekend in early January and they had a good time you would stand a much better chance of someone going out and buying a full season permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue er Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Wow nancy negative. Guess you can play numbers game to get any result you want. Majority of sleds seen here were stuff lile old enticers phazers tx sleds so out of the 15000 or so how many actually did all 3 days or any real distances i lnowy old xlt dodnt get 150k all winter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Wow nancy negative. Guess you can play numbers game to get any result you want. Majority of sleds seen here were stuff lile old enticers phazers tx sleds so out of the 15000 or so how many actually did all 3 days or any real distances i lnowy old xlt dodnt get 150k all winter Different area may well see a different mix of sleds and riders. What I saw was a lot of new or relatively new sleds taking advantage of the free weekend in our area. Maybe the dempgraphics are distinctly different for your area. I pay attention to who does and who doesn't have a permit regularly and have heard it from some locals that "Only a fool buys a trail permit. Carry $260 with you and pay it if you get caught and if you don't you get a free seaon. Mid week chances of being caught are almost none." Those are the actual numbers of permits bought and free weekend permits registered. The only thing I did was add a small percentage to the free weekend for those that didn't bother to register for the free permit. That's based on my meeting up with lots of people that didn't have the free permit and told me they didn't know they needed one for a free weekend. How would you "play" those actual numbers? Numbers don't lie. I support the program, I wouldn't call it a huge success as many have. It has had some very modest success and I believe it should be earlier in the year as more of an enticement to get them to buy a season permit for the current season and not leave it to our hope they buy one next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue er Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Nope just cant believe the amount of bs generated by a free weekend i see a couple thousand extra sales directly. I wonder how many new sleds may have gotten bought and its not accounted for? 15000 extra sleds one weekend fuel oil and food wherever they ride when all it takes is a little more care on my part i was new to this at one time too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Nope just cant believe the amount of bs generated by a free weekend i see a couple thousand extra sales directly. I wonder how many new sleds may have gotten bought and its not accounted for? 15000 extra sleds one weekend fuel oil and food wherever they ride when all it takes is a little more care on my part i was new to this at one time too I guess it's all in the individuals perspective and possibly the extra traffic you see in your area. I am sure it varies significantly. In our area the increase in traffic on the trails is significant to say the least. I never see any where near that many sleds on the trails and the numbers without a permit displayed or displaying the free permit are a significant percentage of the sleds on the trails that weekend. The more traffic obviously the quicker the trails get beat up and nowhere near as much fun to ride when you hit countless miles of non stop bumps. Now you are one of those that pay for and support the trails annually and happily. You are looking forward to some great riding on the long weekend only to find that the trails are in rough shape by noon simply because of the extra traffic from those riding the trails for FREE. It's a little presumptuous to dismiss the perspective and opinions of others as BS simply because their opinion differs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue er Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Well thats my opinion gotta give a little to get. So how what idea do you have to bring some people into the sport? My riding area is dis 2 and 6 and 6 is always beat by noon on a friday regardless of a free weekend. Best if it was 1st weekend of january to get current year buyers but not my call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Well thats my opinion gotta give a little to get. So how what idea do you have to bring some people into the sport? My riding area is dis 2 and 6 and 6 is always beat by noon on a friday regardless of a free weekend. Best if it was 1st weekend of january to get current year buyers but not my call As I posted I don't object to the free weekend. I recognize the moderate success it has had however I wouldn't call it the huge success some have based on the metrics. I would simply move the free weekend earlier in the season to increase the viability of them buying a permit for the rest of that season and to ease the volume of traffic seen on the Feb holiday weekend. Perhaps coordinate it with the Quebec weekend. I have heard that those close to the Quebec border use the Que free weekend, the Ont free weekend and a couple of 2 day permits for their riding. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 IMO! The increase in permit sales is directly related to the great snow season. Its reflected in the snowmobile sales this year. If the season had been crap, the sales would have gone down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think you may not see an immediate increase in permit sales but I don't think thats the point...I know the free weekend can expose kids, teenagers and familes to the sport ... someday theses kids will be in a position to buy sleds....I personally know a few familes who their kids are already talking about going out on the free weekend....of course the kids don't understand its free, they just know they can get out on a weekend...families have older sleds, limited cash but are making memories for the kids...focus should be on younger kids, couples,.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 IMO! The increase in permit sales is directly related to the great snow season. Its reflected in the snowmobile sales this year. If the season had been crap, the sales would have gone down. What? No it cannot be ! I was told that it was all because of ffc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think you may not see an immediate increase in permit sales but I don't think thats the point...I know the free weekend can expose kids, teenagers and familes to the sport ... someday theses kids will be in a position to buy sleds....I personally know a few familes who their kids are already talking about going out on the free weekend....of course the kids don't understand its free, they just know they can get out on a weekend...families have older sleds, limited cash but are making memories for the kids...focus should be on younger kids, couples,.... This is exactly what it is all about. Bringing family and friends together on a weekend that allot of people have off for the government invented holiday. It is not about trying to wreck someones season by giving a free weekend. Do people really think it is wrong to be a friendly organization and celebrate a holiday doing the greatest winter activity together on a weekend dedicated to family? Really, if any of you have not got enough quality riding in by family day weekend, then you really don't have the time to enjoy the sport anyway. By the way the vote went at AGM, most of the clubs are in favor of it, and if the clubs are running properly, the represenatives will be voting the way the majority at the club wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 This is exactly what it is all about. Bringing family and friends together on a weekend that allot of people have off for the government invented holiday. It is not about trying to wreck someones season by giving a free weekend. Do people really think it is wrong to be a friendly organization and celebrate a holiday doing the greatest winter activity together on a weekend dedicated to family? Really, if any of you have not got enough quality riding in by family day weekend, then you really don't have the time to enjoy the sport anyway. By the way the vote went at AGM, most of the clubs are in favor of it, and if the clubs are running properly, the represenatives will be voting the way the majority at the club wants. the vote was to continue the Try Our Trails weekend. There wasn't the option of changing the date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 the vote was to continue the Try Our Trails weekend. There wasn't the option of changing the date. Actually, there was a motion to move the free weekend to the week prior to the long weekend and it was soundly defeated. There was no appetite for changes to the Try Our Trails program as evidenced by the defeat of two motions regarding this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Actually, there was a motion to move the free weekend to the week prior to the long weekend and it was soundly defeated. There was no appetite for changes to the Try Our Trails program as evidenced by the defeat of two motions regarding this. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Actually, there was a motion to move the free weekend to the week prior to the long weekend and it was soundly defeated. There was no appetite for changes to the Try Our Trails program as evidenced by the defeat of two motions regarding this. That's because they think they are right. The votes are manipulated to feed people's egos. If there is a free Family Day Weekend for 2016, Don't buy OFSC Permits, period. That will help facilitate change! Friggin bullies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 That's because they think they are right. The votes are manipulated to feed people's egos. If there is a free Family Day Weekend for 2016, Don't buy OFSC Permits, period. That will help facilitate change! Friggin bullies. That's quite the insult to the many good volunteers who go to AGM to carry their clubs memberships voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 That's quite the insult to the many good volunteers who go to AGM to carry their clubs memberships voice. There are many good people with the best intentions. There are many others who are just there to push their own agendas. We all know it, I just said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 The OFSC operates like a Union. For example the CAW. Its the voice of the membership, but its really not. Its the manipulating ways of a few that destroy the organization. As the larger Organization becomes stronger, the locals become weak. The corruption is always at the top. The more I hear, the less impressed I am. When I first got into snowmobiling I thought the OSFC was great and functioned well. I know now I was delusional. PERMIT FEES = UNION DUES (You do the math) I support clubs and their Volunteers not the OFSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The voting membership at the AGM is the clubs and it's volunteers. We collectively voted to leave the Family Day weeked as is. It was not ramed down our throats by anyone. I am not going to tell you there is no corruption in the organization, I know there is some, but I do not know to what degree. I like the sport, and where I live, I need organized snowmobiling to enjoy the sport. If I lived north of North Bay, would I be involved like I am now, probably not, and my sled would be no less than 15x". For an organization that has volunteers provide the system we have for a measly $180 per sled, it is a one hell of a deal, no matter how much corruption some speculate that there is. We could run it as a corporate business if everyone wants to pay 800 to $1000 per sled per year. Real time decisions just like any other corporate business. I think we have a good thing going although I still diagree with the price of the permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The OFSC operates like a Union. For example the CAW. Its the voice of the membership, but its really not. Its the manipulating ways of a few that destroy the organization. As the larger Organization becomes stronger, the locals become weak. The corruption is always at the top. The more I hear, the less impressed I am. When I first got into snowmobiling I thought the OSFC was great and functioned well. I know now I was delusional. PERMIT FEES = UNION DUES (You do the math) I support clubs and their Volunteers not the OFSC. Your so far off base Dom, as Wildman said nothing was crammed down anyone's throat in regards to FD free permit weekend, there is no motive for it to be, it was choice made by the collective membership that has voting rights, the clubs. You still don't seem to grasp that it is the clubs that run the ofsc, the OFSC IS THE CLUBS, the "top"as you call it has no voting rights, none at all, they do what the membership wants them to do. Their can be no corruption at your so called "top" as they are fully monitored performance and monetarily wise by the membership. The only place within the OFSC that is basically open to corruption is at the district, club or association level where the only real monitoring is done by sledders willing to volunteer to run their local club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Nutter, I agree with your first paragraph, but IMO, the second one sounds like the Kool-Aid was mixed a little strong. There are a number of issues that never get to the membership for approval other than an after the fact motion to ratify and confirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'm convinced that the perfect world OFSC doesn't really exist. The "membership" is not a true reflection of it Members. It is only a reflection of those that are willing to volunteer/participate. That is a small percentage of the "membership". When Chrysler goes on strike, the "membership" thinks its for their benefit...... IMO, the OFSC is broken and needs to be overhauled or brought under government control to ensure that tourism based on snowmobiling is kept alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Nutter, I agree with your first paragraph, but IMO, the second one sounds like the Kool-Aid was mixed a little strong. There are a number of issues that never get to the membership for approval other than an after the fact motion to ratify and confirm. We the membership vote in the officers of the corp which are our dist Gov's, we vote them in them to oversee that the day to days running's are done in the best interest of the memberships will, If we don't like what their decisions are we the membership are always free to vote in who we want for those positions. I'm convinced that the perfect world OFSC doesn't really exist. The "membership" is not a true reflection of it Members. It is only a reflection of those that are willing to volunteer/participate. That is a small percentage of the "membership". When Chrysler goes on strike, the "membership" thinks its for their benefit...... IMO, the OFSC is broken and needs to be overhauled or brought under government control to ensure that tourism based on snowmobiling is kept alive. The OFSC's membership is the clubs, and the clubs are run by those who are willing to volunteer the time to run their local club, honestly do you think the average permit buyer who doesn't volunteer at all or go club meetings is capable of making the right decisions on how their local club should be run, or the the federation as a whole ? It's no different then asking average Joe joggers who wear Nike shoes to run the Nike corp, they just use the product, but have no idea what it takes to make the shoes from start to finish. The advantage of the structure of the OFSC is, we have a mechanism to allow any permit buyer to become a volunteer officer of the corp by vote of their fellow club members if they feel they are a suitable candidate to carry their voice, which comes with time invested in volunteering. Brought under Gov control ?? Look at the control they already have over us with Bill101 and how that screws us up, and how they put strings on how grant money is spent, and the hurdles they make us jump through to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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