riding ofsc with no permit

[Doogirl69]

On the trail they can't give you a street racing fine, but on the road to trail sections they can, if you are going 50km/hr over limit. Doesn't take much with limit in 30km to 50km/hr range.

 

Good Gawd, where do you get your info?

 

Got a link?

[Wildbill]

Legit consequences . 

 

Even more legit the system only exists because tens of thousands of hours are volunteered. The permit offsets most of the costs those of usthat care and contribute take great offense to those that think that they are so special that they dont need to pay. There should be a kick me I am a free loader sticker for those without a pass. 

 

 A few folks on here will "hunt" those that ride without a pass I am one of them I know who they are and catch them and swear out charges. I have a 100% conviction rate. Please do not force this issue instead join the group pay your way and ride with your head up and proud. You could get involved in alocal club and make new and great friends .

[polarisnewbie]

i will get fined 1k ?? i doubt that lol!!!

[Blake G]

are the consequences legit or are you just saying this so you can get my $$$

I think the degree of enforcement may vary. In my case, I was stopped and checked by officials 7 times last winter, in 1000 kilomtres of riding our trails as a permitted member. I also rode about 400 kilometres on lakes and roads where a trail permit is not required. 

 

It is ethical and fair to purchase a trail permit if one intends to use trails created and maintained by the snowmobile clubs. It is especially fair to purchase the trail permit from the club that is located in the area in which you plan to do most of your sledding. Buy where you ride.

[yamahas]

You're profile says you rode just under 3000km's last season. If those were on OFSC trails I hope you had a permit...

 

No one on here is just saying stuff to get you're $$, no one on here benefits personally from you buying a permit.

[02Sled]

i will get fined 1k ?? i doubt that lol!!!

That is up to the judge. Like Wild Bill said he will as a Trail Patrol not a STOP swear out the charge as will other Trail Patrol. You then either pay the fine or go to court. You may find a lenient judge and he may fine a bit less than the full $1000 but if the judge happens to be a sledder you can pretty much count on the full $1000. Just remember the court you appear in is the court in the jurisdiction in which you were charged and in many areas the chances are high the local judge is also a local sledder. Don't forget the cost to appear in court. The travel time and time off work.  I dot my I's and cross my T's on my paperwork when I find someone as well as take pictures of the sled, the registration numbers and rider.

[white dragon]

doogirl69

 

if your doing 80 kmh down a road,that sleds are only allowed to do 30 kmh.thats 50 kmh over speed limit...thats a racing charge & your day is over...

[polarisnewbie]

You're profile says you rode just under 3000km's last season. If those were on OFSC trails I hope you had a permit...

No one on here is just saying stuff to get you're $$, no one on here benefits personally from you buying a permit.

i figured someone would ask that. those are the kms the sled had when i bought it a month ago.

[white dragon]

polarisnewbie

 

buy a permit & fit in....it's the only way to fly

[Wildbill]

Lots of great folks here to ride with but they will not ride with a freeloader. Buy a permit find new friends and enjoy the experience 

[Yukon]

k thanks guys. im comletely new to sledding and didnt realize the implications of this. 

and a street racing fine, I doubt that put yeah probably safer just to invest to 210$

my friends say they haven't seen a stop officer in 5 years though...

This may be helpful, not only is it a requirement to know the MSVA but its the Law.

Your friends sound Nieve!

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90m44_e.htm

[Yukon]

I may be mistaken but I don't think there is any 30 km. speed limit for sleds in Ontario. I think the limit is 20 km. on road allowances and 50 km. on trails.

Townships can dictate speed limits through local bylaws on OFSC trails as long as it doesn't exceed 50km/hr as written in the MSVA.

20km is standard.

[Panther340]

The OFSC and the folks here at OC won’t tell you about the exceptions that the OFSC must make to certain crown land user groups that DO NOT need to buy a permit.

Aboriginal peoples of Canada.    While on treaty or traditional lands.          No proof required to be presented. (traditional lands is basically anywhere crown land is nowadays)

Tenants of Crown land and such tenants’ immediate family members.    While travelling directly to or from the Crown land, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the Crown land or is the only safe access route to the Crown land. Must be able to present a legible copy of a land use permit, licence of occupation or lease, issued under the Public Lands Act or a regulation under that Act.

Licensed anglers.             While engaged in angling activities during open season, as defined in the Ontario Fishery Regulations made under the Fisheries Act (Canada), pursuant to a valid fishing or fishing/hunting outdoors card and a valid sport fishing validation tag, both issued under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997, and while travelling on Crown or other public land directly to or from the area open for angling, within the meaning of the Fisheries Act (Canada), if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the area open for angling or is the only safe access route to the area open for angling.     (a) A valid fishing or fishing/hunting outdoors card and a valid sport fishing validation tag, both issued under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997.

Anglers 65 years old or older or under 18 years old.            (So no limits about “while engaged in fishing” is on Government Law website for those over 65 or under 18, it seems you just need any one of these ….               (A valid fishing or fishing/hunting outdoors card issued under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997 or,

                              (i) a driver’s licence,

                              (ii) a motorized snow vehicle operator’s licence, or

                              (iii) a birth certificate.

The above (anything not in italics ) is cut and pasted from Ontario Government Website

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_010185_e.htm

And is called  ONTARIO REGULATION 185/01 TRAIL PERMITS Consolidation Period: From June 13, 2005 to the e-Laws currency date.

You will also find that if you are not native or not fishing, or not over 65 or under 18 then the set fine for riding OFSC trails without permit is $200 (that is also listed as a “set fine” )

You will also note that you must stop for an OPP officer or a Conservation Officer but they are the only ones by the law that can have a blue or red flashing light……so that must mean you do not need to stop for any other OFSC delegated person , and if you search this OC web site you will find that the STOP officers can ask you to Stop , but you do not need to identify yourselves and the article also stated you should not take your helmet off so they can take a picture of you . I guess that way they will not be able to identify you as the rider of the machine that was trespassing. I even saw one of the Stop officers last year on OC state that they are not allowed to pursue you if you go off the trail. So if you are going to run then it seems that if you should get off the trail then STOP representative has lost any powers he was delegated as soon as he leaves the 20 foot wide OFSC trails. I am not recommending the above pursuit , I am just telling you what STOP  people have admitted. I imagine this year the STOP officers are going to request they be permitted pistols, but considering that even our Border Officers are not allowed firearms I doubt the STOP people will get their wish….but they might have a big tree branch…………..smile

[Wildbill]

twisted everything again eh Panther . Next trick is knowing what is crown land and what isn't . Under our land use on private land we have the authority to stop you plain and simple. So duck and hide like a coward or stand up like a man and contribute for what you use.

[Panther340]

Actually Wildbill you and I know that those exception are exactly what exist and apply perfectly to ALL crown land (and some northern private land townships too) BUT OFSC prefers to think that EVERYONE is a freeloader and ignore telling the public about the exceptions. I can honestly say I have never riden on a OFSC trail in my area.....but when I retire and want to access more lakes for fishing I will !............. and I will be allowed without permit  by exception law.

[Blake G]

Panther340, thank you for pointing out these exceptions. It is good to have all the facts, when trying to answer a question. 

 

It makes sense, to me at least, that persons sledding in the circumstances covered by the exceptions would not be considered freeloaders. Freeloaders would be the appropriate word only for the non-paying OFSC trail users who are not covered by the exceptions.

 

The general principle is that it is fair and ethical for a sledder to purchase a trail permit if they intend to ride on trails established and maintained through the efforts of snowmobile club members - - unless the sledder is covered by one of the exceptions that you specified.

[sledjunk]

The OFSC and the folks here at OC won’t tell you about the exceptions that the OFSC must make to certain crown land user groups that DO NOT need to buy a permit.

Aboriginal peoples of Canada.    While on treaty or traditional lands.          No proof required to be presented. (traditional lands is basically anywhere crown land is nowadays)

 

That is NOT True!  Crown Land is owned by the Crown and is not treaty or traditional land.  OFSC, under Bill 101, is  considered an agent with regards to trails, and as such, an MTO Permit is required.  The actual wording of this is printed on the back of the Notice of Trespass, but I do not have one handy.

 

Licensed anglers.             While engaged in angling activities during open season, as defined in the Ontario Fishery Regulations made under the Fisheries Act (Canada), pursuant to a valid fishing or fishing/hunting outdoors card and a valid sport fishing validation tag, both issued under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997, and while travelling on Crown or other public land directly to or from the area open for angling, within the meaning of the Fisheries Act (Canada), if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the area open for angling or is the only safe access route to the area open for angling.     (a) A valid fishing or fishing/hunting outdoors card and a valid sport fishing validation tag, both issued under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997.

Anglers 65 years old or older or under 18 years old.            (So no limits about “while engaged in fishing” is on Government Law website for those over 65 or under 18, it seems you just need any one of these …. What part of "angler" do you not understand?  The provision for the nearest access still applies!              (A valid fishing or fishing/hunting outdoors card issued under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997 or,

                              (i) a driver’s licence,

                              (ii) a motorized snow vehicle operator’s licence, or

                              (iii) a birth certificate.

The above (anything not in italics ) is cut and pasted from Ontario Government Website

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_010185_e.htm

And is called  ONTARIO REGULATION 185/01 TRAIL PERMITS Consolidation Period: From June 13, 2005 to the e-Laws currency date.

You will also find that if you are not native or not fishing, or not over 65 or under 18 then the set fine for riding OFSC trails without permit is $200 (that is also listed as a “set fine” )

This is the set fine.  The victim surcharge of $40 is added to that.  However, a police officer can issue a 'ticket' that involves a higher fine, up to $1000 as defined in the MSVA under 2.1(6).

 

You will also note that you must stop for an OPP officer or a Conservation Officer but they are the only ones by the law that can have a blue or red flashing light……so that must mean you do not need to stop for any other OFSC delegated person , and if you search this OC web site you will find that the STOP officers can ask you to Stop , but you do not need to identify yourselves and the article also stated you should not take your helmet off so they can take a picture of you . I guess that way they will not be able to identify you as the rider of the machine that was trespassing. I even saw one of the Stop officers last year on OC state that they are not allowed to pursue you if you go off the trail.

 

STOP officers are not allowed to pusue, however, you are required to identfy yourself to them and they CAN ask for identification, ownership, insurance.  You are confusing STOP Officers with Trail Patrol!  Trail Patrol officers cannot ask for identification and cannot issue tickets under the MSVA.

 

So if you are going to run then it seems that if you should get off the trail then STOP representative has lost any powers he was delegated as soon as he leaves the 20 foot wide OFSC trails. I am not recommending the above pursuit , I am just telling you what STOP  people have admitted. I imagine this year the STOP officers are going to request they be permitted pistols, but considering that even our Border Officers are not allowed firearms I doubt the STOP people will get their wish….but they might have a big tree branch…………..smile

 

You DO have a vivid imagination

[Sasquatch777]

I hope you buy the pemit to help those who build and maintain the trails not because you may get fined if you don't! Common sense issue, the trails are not free to build and maintain so help out all those clubs and volunteers and support them with your trail pass. It's not big brother you are fighting by not buying a pass its the volunteers of the club who you are hurting. People like yourself who work hard and are proud of what they have accomplished for you the sledder. Its those whom you hurt the most.

 

Become a volunteer for a local club and become part of it! Try it for a season! It will open your eyes to all that is involved in making those trails. Then and only then will you fully understand why some people are a little touchy about riding the trails for free! Get involved! Volunteer even if its only for a day! You might like many, love it and want more!

[sledjunk]

I hope you buy the pemit to help those who build and maintain the trails not because you may get fined if you don't! Common sense issue, the trails are not free to build and maintain so help out all those clubs and volunteers and support them with your trail pass. It's not big brother you are fighting by not buying a pass its the volunteers of the club who you are hurting. People like yourself who work hard and are proud of what they have accomplished for you the sledder. Its those whom you hurt the most.

 

Become a volunteer for a local club and become part of it! Try it for a season! It will open your eyes to all that is involved in making those trails. Then and only then will you fully understand why some people are a little touchy about riding the trails for free! Get involved! Volunteer even if its only for a day! You might like many, love it and want more!

Well said!

[Bucking Pig]

_{No Brainer.  If you're going to ride OFSC trails, except under the exmptions noted by Panther, you SHOULD buy a permit.}

_{As has been pointed out in many postings on this forum, to not do so is essentially theft.  And, not from some big brother, but from hard working volunteers.}

_{If you plan on riding on their trails, buy the permit.  If you have no intention of riding their trails, then don't.} 

_{Just remember there are very few places within 5 hours of Toronto that you can legally ride without one.}

_BP

[Sasquatch777]

You will also find that if you are not native or not fishing, or not over 65 or under 18 then the set fine for riding OFSC trails without permit is $200 (that is also listed as a “set fine” )

You will also note that you must stop for an OPP officer or a Conservation Officer but they are the only ones by the law that can have a blue or red flashing light……so that must mean you do not need to stop for any other OFSC delegated person , and if you search this OC web site you will find that the STOP officers can ask you to Stop , but you do not need to identify yourselves and the article also stated you should not take your helmet off so they can take a picture of you . I guess that way they will not be able to identify you as the rider of the machine that was trespassing. I even saw one of the Stop officers last year on OC state that they are not allowed to pursue you if you go off the trail. So if you are going to run then it seems that if you should get off the trail then STOP representative has lost any powers he was delegated as soon as he leaves the 20 foot wide OFSC trails. I am not recommending the above pursuit , I am just telling you what STOP  people have admitted. I imagine this year the STOP officers are going to request they be permitted pistols, but considering that even our Border Officers are not allowed firearms I doubt the STOP people will get their wish….but they might have a big tree branch…………..smile

 

 

Wow once an A$$ always an A$$!

 

But Panther your as usual wrong about a lot of things. I'll start with an OPP or Conservation officer does not need a flashing Red or Blue light to stop you and I can stop you for them.

 

Next up is if you are tresspassing you have to by law identify your self. I know two youths charged with failing to identify when tresspassing and tresspassing.

 

And you may think that running off trail means I have to stop but your wrong. I can ride till I wish to stop!

 

And the minimum fine is 200 dollars the max is a thousand.

 

Now for the A$$ part. did you just listen to your self tell someone they should run from a stop program. I'm pretty sure the OPP would just love that! Now for sure you get the maximum fine plus a loss of licence for falling to stop and dangerous driving.

 

You as usuall have lived up to your reputation as a total idiot! Trespass is trespass on or off the trail. Your just replacing one with the other. OPP officers are hard to spot amongst stop officers all with their reflective vests on and such and that is how we roll! We are also very sneaky where we set up and have been known to close the back door after the front has been closed. Now if someone follows your advice and hurts themselves or others I hope you sleep well at night.

 

And pistols? Is there not any low to which you will not stoop! Your certifiable!

 

Best advice is do not let Panther lead you anywhere! His aim is not to help you but as usual its to harrass and slam the OFSC its clubs and volunteers even if he has to use others to do his dirty work.

[aar0n]

true

[Sasquatch777]

Actually Wildbill you and I know that those exception are exactly what exist and apply perfectly to ALL crown land (and some northern private land townships too) BUT OFSC prefers to think that EVERYONE is a freeloader and ignore telling the public about the exceptions. I can honestly say I have never riden on a OFSC trail in my area.....but when I retire and want to access more lakes for fishing I will !............. and I will be allowed without permit  by exception law.

 And Panther as long as you follow the exeptions to the letter I wish you nothing but luck and enjoyment in your catch. We have always accomadated fishermen in their quest for omega 3!

[sledjunk]

 We have always accomadated fishermen in their quest for omega 3!

I understand it build brain cells, but I don't know for sure.

[catinental couch]

Come off the ice in Orillia at the south end of Coughiching and ride the trail in town and I believe you will find it is 30 km. Not sure but I think that is what it is. It's close to a number of residences. I've seen the OPP sitting just off the ice checking for permits and with radar in the past.

20 kmh through town trails and yes it is boring but the O.P.P. do not have to have sleds to catch you.You are trapped at the numerous road crossings.