FreezerBurnt Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Once Feb rolls around they show basically have 98% of the sales numbers down for the season, thus being able to make the call at it being successful in bumping up the numbers As for the 41,500 sold now, that means the $$$ is ready to hit the trails a lot sooner than before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yammahappy Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 With any luck our winters could start becoming real winters again,this is ultimatly what decides if people are driven to buy permits.thus bieng said this years cold and snow so far is a good start,time will tell the tale(fingers crossed for snow) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 With any luck our winters could start becoming real winters again,this is ultimatly what decides if people are driven to buy permits.thus bieng said this years cold and snow so far is a good start,time will tell the tale(fingers crossed for snow) And I think that is the biggest factor.!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I am skeptical about those numbers. I have problems believing that that many people are new or returning after a hiatus. I think that the numbers get skewed because the online sales do not exactly match the previous permits. For example, I ordered my permits to be delivered at work. Does that make me a new purchaser? The validation of the VIN and registration address was non existent and therefore the numbers are suspect IMO. Valid points... I wonder how good their program is to validate variables such a "Bob Smith" and "Robert Smith", "Ave." and "Avenue" etc. To get truly accurate metrics will be difficult but collection of the data online will improve the accuracy significantly and in future years when the database becomes more populous. Like you my permit (yet to arrive) is being sent to my office and my VIN #s were not recorded in previous years. They do actually have my home address in the profile, just the ship to address was different. Hopefuly whoever wrote the program covers enough variable to be able to get valid matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave K Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Just curious, what have the last few years total pass sales been? What % of that number has been purchased already now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Valid points... I wonder how good their program is to validate variables such a "Bob Smith" and "Robert Smith", "Ave." and "Avenue" etc. To get truly accurate metrics will be difficult but collection of the data online will improve the accuracy significantly and in future years when the database becomes more populous. Like you my permit (yet to arrive) is being sent to my office and my VIN #s were not recorded in previous years. They do actually have my home address in the profile, just the ship to address was different. Hopefuly whoever wrote the program covers enough variable to be able to get valid matches. I suspect that the 42% or what ever it was proves that those variables are NOT covered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Just curious, what have the last few years total pass sales been? What % of that number has been purchased already now? Lat year was around 55000 IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 The November 1 permit sales was great for West Carleton Snowmobile Trails Association. Last year we sold 298 early permits and now we have already 337 full season permits. That is an increase of more then 10%. Thanks to all permit buyers of WCSTA. Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 My bet is it's based on VIN numbers. It's been said here lots of places never put the VIN on paperwork. So it's posable that 42% are people with new sleds this year, or people who's VIN wasn't added in to the system last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I have problems believing that that many people are new or returning after a hiatus. If this attracted some people, it probably attracted a lot of people though. Snowmobiling is a social sport. When one person in a riding group quits due to costs, the whole group is highly likely to do the same, even if cost is not a factor for them. If you attract the people who are price sensitive back into the sport, the friends are likely to follow right behind. Something else at play is that the price of snowmobiles are dropping. You can buy a brand new 2014 model that is less than what the equivalent model cost in 2004 before even adjusting for inflation. Early snow, cheaper permits, and cheaper snowmobiles is bound to bring in some new/returning interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Where have you been hiding???? Haven't heard from you in ages. Welcome back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 If this attracted some people, it probably attracted a lot of people though. Snowmobiling is a social sport. When one person in a riding group quits due to costs, the whole group is highly likely to do the same, even if cost is not a factor for them. If you attract the people who are price sensitive back into the sport, the friends are likely to follow right behind. Something else at play is that the price of snowmobiles are dropping. You can buy a brand new 2014 model that is less than what the equivalent model cost in 2004 before even adjusting for inflation. Early snow, cheaper permits, and cheaper snowmobiles is bound to bring in some new/returning interest. Great first post! (Good observation about the price of sleds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddszr600 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 If its based on VIN then Im a new rider as Ive never submitted a VIN before, my daughters was on there from ordering the classic last year though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 The November 1 permit sales was great for West Carleton Snowmobile Trails Association. Last year we sold 298 early permits and now we have already 337 full season permits. That is an increase of more then 10%. Thanks to all permit buyers of WCSTA. Thanks Greg Sounds great, but with the 30 dollar price reduction you are only ahead 4 percent compared to last year. I guess if you can sell sone more before dec 1, you could be ahead by 20 or even 30 percent. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Sounds great, but with the 30 dollar price reduction you are only ahead 4 percent compared to last year. I guess if you can sell sone more before dec 1, you could be ahead by 20 or even 30 percent. Good luck! ahead is ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 ahead is ahead An Ass is an Ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToSlow Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 An Ass is an Ass i seen what you did there... any forward steps taken will hopefully gain momentum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 An Ass is an Ass A d.... is a d.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 New buyers...if you read Craig N's release its "new to the online permit system". And how many of those are really "new buyers"?? Not many I suspect. But its still a good start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 New buyers...if you read Craig N's release its "new to the online permit system". And how many of those are really "new buyers"?? Not many I suspect. But its still a good start! New to the online system? I would think the new buyers would be a lot higher than the 42% they are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogan Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I would question any statistics published on permits sales from the OFSC/MTO systems ....new vs. returning vs. family day converts from last year etc. My reason is this: I had purchased an annual permit every year up until last year always providing my VIN. Last year I just couldn't come to grips with $210 for possibly one or two days of sledding and so I didn't get a permit. There are zero OFSC trails within a 2 hour drive from where I live. When family day came around, there were good conditions posted and I opted for the free weekend pass so I could take my daughter for a ride. Fast forward to this year when I went to once again purchase a seasonal permit for $180 in October. When I logged on to the online system to buy that permit, my VIN appeared twice. I suspect one appearance was from my prior seasonal purchases and the other was possibly from last year's family day freebie. I simply chose one of them and completed the purchase. That fact that they showed two records on the screen for the same VIN indicates data integrity issues within their information database and with issues like that, you certainly cannot generate accurate statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I would question any statistics published on permits sales from the OFSC/MTO systems ....new vs. returning vs. family day converts from last year etc. My reason is this: I had purchased an annual permit every year up until last year always providing my VIN. Last year I just couldn't come to grips with $210 for possibly one or two days of sledding and so I didn't get a permit. There are zero OFSC trails within a 2 hour drive from where I live. When family day came around, there were good conditions posted and I opted for the free weekend pass so I could take my daughter for a ride. Fast forward to this year when I went to once again purchase a seasonal permit for $180 in October. When I logged on to the online system to buy that permit, my VIN appeared twice. I suspect one appearance was from my prior seasonal purchases and the other was possibly from last year's family day freebie. I simply chose one of them and completed the purchase. That fact that they showed two records on the screen for the same VIN indicates data integrity issues within their information database and with issues like that, you certainly cannot generate accurate statistics. So was it the 180 that lured you back in? If it would have been 210, you would have passed? Just curious and it is great to see some buyers that didn't purchase last year, back in the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogan Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I was going back in at 210 anyway and the 180 just happened to be a bonus. I'm gambling on the weather this year more than anything. Myself and the two others I usually ride with all look at this in a similar way. We all enjoy snowmobiling but a 2 hour drive to the nearest trail, fuel costs, accomodation costs, food costs, permit costs, insurance costs all factor in to the equation. The primary factor though is the weather and thus the availability and conditions of the trail system within a reasonable driving distance. If we have to go more than a 5 hour drive every time we want to go snowmobiling then we're not going to be snowmobiling very often and a seasonal permit just doesn't make sense. It would be more economical in that case to simply plan 1 week of sledding per year and buy a weekly permit. If conditions are good further south for a decent length of time, then a seasonal permit makes sense. I would say that the overall environment for sledding last season (trail availability, amount of snow, distance to nearest open trail system etc.) was promising enough to make me buy a full season permit this year...180 or 210 really didn't matter. If conditions are a bust this year, I will likely pass on a permit again next year and may exit completely. As much as I enjoy snowmobiling, the economics have to be in balance with mother nature and we all know she holds the upper hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Where are you from dogan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogan Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Port Colborne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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