Lep Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Well Mossy I come here because I own a snowmachine and since this website is not for the exclusive use of just OFSC trail riders, I thought it important to bring the perspective of snowmachine owners that don't use or need the OFSC trails. Because that point of view is sadly lacking. Now you may not agree with my point of view and then conclude it is negative because it puts up roadblocks and arguements that lessen your arguements , but that is what life is about, compromise deciding how best to get an issue concluded with all the parties that it impacts. Now I do see some on this site that are willing to look at the overall vision and end game that OFSC must go towards and realize that that end game will require far more than what OFSC is letting on in their "change" vision that they will try to sell at AGM and to politicians . YOu may not like that vision that Skidooboy and Big Pete have admitted is only outcome , but other posters here should not insult the rest of the non trail users with half truths and false statements and straw arguements. As for the picture above Apeman posted, that is me shiting on devious OFSC . Where I come from those paddies are valuable fertilizer to grow things in, but if you prefer not to take the fertilizer then stick to your guns about "val tags' being the only option and watch your prized trails whither one by one as OFSC dies a slow death and minority Government sticks your val tag needs on back burner because they are too controversial to touch in next year and then even if they implement will require two years to get funds. Do you have three years life left in OFSC ..........I hope so for the tourism impact in my area .......... but I doubt it. Agreed 340....Have not seen any true ### that are fact,except total permit sales.....Makes me laugh when peeps know all about certain area's etc and have not even riden that area and have no intent to either as long as there own play ground is not affected.One thing for certain 340 u will be riding for many moons to come OFSC or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 until all 16 districts have had there pre AGM meeting, there are no real facts, so far all anyone has is smoke and mirrors. Everyone is basing all their opinions off a survey. Mind you, the way some of the wording in that survey was, it would make a person believe that was the direction they where going. 4 more weeks and we will know the facts on the direction the board is looking to go, then it has to pass a vote. Save ur energy to lobby your board of directors, swinging a bat in this forum won't do squat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 So now the truth comes out OFSC was looking at $40 val tags and $25 going to OFSc so that is a LOT different than the $15 some here pretended was the number. And now with Big Pete's clarification we see that after OFSC got their foot in the door of val tags they would actually need closer to $100 .................and this from MANY who do not use the trails... NOT A CHANCE !! Thousands like me will not register their sleds when it costs more than their car ! TRY SELLING THAT TO GOVERNMENT ! No politician in their right mind would try to push that thru, I guess when i said "devious" OFSC methods in previous post, I was being quite accurate ! They are going to try to sell this to government without telling the whole story and they will pretend they represent all snow machine owners ! LOL Your so easy! Its called a forum because people post Ideas and talk about them. The OFSC has decided nothing! Neither has anyone else. You want there to be a Conspericy for you to wage war against. You want to be the champion of the internet. Instead your kinda looking a little foolish! Our speculation wishes or hopes are much like wishing and hoping the Government is going to send everyone a 5 thousand dollar rebate cause we earned it. It could happen but first we have to each give them 10,000 grand. So far you have not contributed anything to this or any other thread that has anything to do with the OFSC other then to run down the OFSC and all its devious trail pass buyers. We get it you don't like the OFSC, its club members and anything else to do with them. You only come here to look for and read into whats posted to fuel your obssesion with the OFSC. So here it is! Yes we have a dastardly evil and nefarious plan! We and the OFSC are planning a devious takeover of Ontario. The OFSC has hired henchmen to target all non permit buyers with the intent of mayham and malice! Only Panther340 riding with his cape flowing in the wind can save the unpermited from sure and utter Doom! Is it a Bird? Is it a Plane? No its captain _________ Fill in the blank with whatever name you want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Well Mossy I come here because I own a snowmachine and since this website is not for the exclusive use of just OFSC trail riders, I thought it important to bring the perspective of snowmachine owners that don't use or need the OFSC trails. Because that point of view is sadly lacking. Now you may not agree with my point of view and then conclude it is negative because it puts up roadblocks and arguements that lessen your arguements , but that is what life is about, compromise deciding how best to get an issue concluded with all the parties that it impacts. Now I do see some on this site that are willing to look at the overall vision and end game that OFSC must go towards and realize that that end game will require far more than what OFSC is letting on in their "change" vision that they will try to sell at AGM and to politicians . YOu may not like that vision that Skidooboy and Big Pete have admitted is only outcome , but other posters here should not insult the rest of the non trail users with half truths and false statements and straw arguements. As for the picture above Apeman posted, that is me shiting on devious OFSC . Where I come from those paddies are valuable fertilizer to grow things in, but if you prefer not to take the fertilizer then stick to your guns about "val tags' being the only option and watch your prized trails whither one by one as OFSC dies a slow death and minority Government sticks your val tag needs on back burner because they are too controversial to touch in next year and then even if they implement will require two years to get funds. Do you have three years life left in OFSC ..........I hope so for the tourism impact in my area .......... but I doubt it. See again no addition to the thread about how trails are funded in other provinces! Just the same old same old! Back on subject! Or is it even possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 ROFLMFAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apeXMAN Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 LOL Your so easy! Its called a forum because people post Ideas and talk about them. The OFSC has decided nothing! Neither has anyone else. You want there to be a Conspericy for you to wage war against. You want to be the champion of the internet. Instead your kinda looking a little foolish! Our speculation wishes or hopes are much like wishing and hoping the Government is going to send everyone a 5 thousand dollar rebate cause we earned it. It could happen but first we have to each give them 10,000 grand. So far you have not contributed anything to this or any other thread that has anything to do with the OFSC other then to run down the OFSC and all its devious trail pass buyers. We get it you don't like the OFSC, its club members and anything else to do with them. You only come here to look for and read into whats posted to fuel your obssesion with the OFSC. So here it is! Yes we have a dastardly evil and nefarious plan! We and the OFSC are planning a devious takeover of Ontario. The OFSC has hired henchmen to target all non permit buyers with the intent of mayham and malice! Only Panther340 riding with his cape flowing in the wind can save the unpermited from sure and utter Doom! Is it a Bird? Is it a Plane? No its captain _________ Fill in the blank with whatever name you want! LOL...Panther 340 Captain_______________ photo This photo explains a lot about Captain _________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 LOL...Panther 340 Captain_______________ photoACAT-Purple-Cape.jpg This photo explains a lot about Captain _________ kats r kewl..........kewl kat right there, eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Well Mossy I come here because I own a snowmachine and since this website is not for the exclusive use of just OFSC trail riders, I thought it important to bring the perspective of snowmachine owners that don't use or need the OFSC trails. Because that point of view is sadly lacking. Now you may not agree with my point of view and then conclude it is negative because it puts up roadblocks and arguements that lessen your arguements , but that is what life is about, compromise deciding how best to get an issue concluded with all the parties that it impacts. Now I do see some on this site that are willing to look at the overall vision and end game that OFSC must go towards and realize that that end game will require far more than what OFSC is letting on in their "change" vision that they will try to sell at AGM and to politicians . YOu may not like that vision that Skidooboy and Big Pete have admitted is only outcome , but other posters here should not insult the rest of the non trail users with half truths and false statements and straw arguements. As for the picture above Apeman posted, that is me shiting on devious OFSC . Where I come from those paddies are valuable fertilizer to grow things in, but if you prefer not to take the fertilizer then stick to your guns about "val tags' being the only option and watch your prized trails whither one by one as OFSC dies a slow death and minority Government sticks your val tag needs on back burner because they are too controversial to touch in next year and then even if they implement will require two years to get funds. Do you have three years life left in OFSC ..........I hope so for the tourism impact in my area .......... but I doubt it. I never said I disagree with you. I'm more open minded that the brush you have painted me with. Can you show me more than one post you haven't been negative in? All I'm asking is to lighten up. As for the personal attacks toward you I hope they do stop. It's just one person's opinion and how he feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther340 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Thanks Lep and Mossy.............as for the rest and their childishness.... typical Skiddoo boy stated it well back in the "kneejerk" thread when he stated: "this downward spiral all started when the economy crashed, the exchange rate dropped, the requirement of passports for usa/canada border crossings, the end of gst rebates for tourists, increase of permit costs, trails closing, ect.... it has been a spiral we cannot pull out of. too many things were and are working against us, now we are "in-fighting" amoungst ourselves. unless a miracle happens we are truely near the end. it would be nice to get our politicians on both sides of the border to see this economic disaster they help perpetuate. and to see if they can look into remedying it. (wishful thinking). " end of quote So the childish ones here can keep blaming their problems on the non ofsc machine owners and try to get their needed funds from them.......... but be prepared for a long wait and watching your spiral continue down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 So the childish ones here can keep blaming their problems on the non ofsc machine owners and try to get their needed funds from them.......... but be prepared for a long wait and watching your spiral continue down. I think it is more like the non permit riders that still ride the trails. You as a non rider of the trails are amongst a very limited few who do not ride the trails. Even District 16 before it closed was plauged by non permit riders of the trails. You say you do not ride the trails just like others who do not carry a permit. How do you tell the difference? So if you get caught up in the middle of it don't blame the trail pass buying riders, blame the riders of the trails who do not buy passes and thumb their noses at the members who buy permits and the law. Its why laws and regulations are made. They of course are a blanket effect when passed and not everyone is happy when it happens. Its your continual blame casting on the people who follow the rules instead of where the blame should fall on the people who break the rules is why people have tired of you. Well that and calling us devious. So devious we talked about it on a public forum. Some consperiousy! Yes you say you do not ride the OFSC trails. So does everyone else till they get caught. We are after them, its unfortunate that a few get lumped in with the rest but it happens all the time. I live by a pile of laws that were passed because a few ruined it for the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRICKPaint Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 NY state, uses a linked val tag system, I remember it being around $90 plus $25 to join a club. You didn't have to join a club, but it got you some other discounts if you did. Actually was just reading thier website, seems the GOV is trying to reclassify Adirondack Park to wild forest. This would ban all motorized offroad vehicles in the park. it would even ban the used of motor boats on all the lakes as well. It sounds very screwed up to me, from what little is posted. I think now it is cost 100 bucks, but if you join a club it saves you around 30 dollars making the total for club membership and permit @ 70 dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 No wonder panther doesn't ride the trails, he fly's over them. Got to love it. You guys crack me up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 A val tag fee directed at all oeners of a sled and going to a single user group isd ludicrous. How about a val tag fee for boats going to building marine facilities on northern lakes, how would that go over? The idea that any government money should subsidize sledding is ludicrous, we are running deficets in this Province, we do not have any money to hand out millions to a rich group of men that want to play in the snow. Pay what it costs and cut out all the bullshit spending that goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 A val tag fee directed at all oeners of a sled and going to a single user group isd ludicrous. How about a val tag fee for boats going to building marine facilities on northern lakes, how would that go over? The idea that any government money should subsidize sledding is ludicrous, we are running deficets in this Province, we do not have any money to hand out millions to a rich group of men that want to play in the snow. Pay what it costs and cut out all the bullshit spending that goes on. I hate to break it too you, it isn't the rich that buy sleds. It is mostly the average income earner that participates in this wonderful sport. We all pay our fair share for services we use and don't ever use too. The government is the real bread winner here. Without some support from the Feds, this sport would die quick. We spend millions on fuel alone thru the winter. Government gets way more back from us, ten what is given to us for our trail network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 A val tag fee directed at all oeners of a sled and going to a single user group isd ludicrous. How about a val tag fee for boats going to building marine facilities on northern lakes, how would that go over? The idea that any government money should subsidize sledding is ludicrous, we are running deficets in this Province, we do not have any money to hand out millions to a rich group of men that want to play in the snow. Pay what it costs and cut out all the bullshit spending that goes on. Rich? Who me? LOL I wish! I got out of sledding in the 80's to raise and support a family. I sold my sled my motorcycle and my boat. I quit smoking in the late 90's and with kids gone I struggled to save enough from cig money to buy back into the sport I love. I spend money on gas in my sled that is taxed for automotive use. Any money the Government puts back in came from sledders pockets in the first place! As far as ludicrous goes sledders claiming to never use the trails but do anyway have brought about the val tag fee. Add to that the tourism increase from sledding and its great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucking Pig Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Rich? Who me? LOL I wish! I got out of sledding in the 80's to raise and support a family. I sold my sled my motorcycle and my boat. I quit smoking in the late 90's and with kids gone I struggled to save enough from cig money to buy back into the sport I love. I spend money on gas in my sled that is taxed for automotive use. Any money the Government puts back in came from sledders pockets in the first place! As far as ludicrous goes sledders claiming to never use the trails but do anyway have brought about the val tag fee. Add to that the tourism increase from sledding and its great idea. i think you have tunnel vision when it comes to snowmobiling and this issue, my friend. I, for one, do not claim to not use the trails, I Do NOT use them! Nor does ANYBODY else that I personally know that has a snowmobile. (Probably 20 -30 people). We use our sleds to hunt, fish, go to our camps, or ride unplowed roads. There isn't even an OFSC trail nearby that we could ride on if we wanted to. The clubs died here due to high permit prices (compared to the product we received), economic downturn, and lack of interest, not un-permitted sleds using the trails. I am not saying that's the issue everywhere, but it was here. Is there an issue with un-permitted sleds using your trails in some places? Undoubtably, there is. You have a compliance issue, which does need to be addressed. I do not think that Val tags are your answer. I think You will see huge opposition to it from the non-OFSC snowmobile owners. I am sure that the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters will be opposed, as well as the Trappers Federation, and folks who I haven't even thought of. "Organized Snowmobiling" needs to convince those people who are truly stealing your product to pay for it, and to fine the crap out of those who continue to steal, not assume everybody rides their sled the same way and for the same reasons you do. Let the slamming begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 i think you have tunnel vision when it comes to snowmobiling and this issue, my friend. I, for one, do not claim to not use the trails, I Do NOT use them! Nor does ANYBODY else that I personally know that has a snowmobile. (Probably 20 -30 people). We use our sleds to hunt, fish, go to our camps, or ride unplowed roads. There isn't even an OFSC trail nearby that we could ride on if we wanted to. The clubs died here due to high permit prices (compared to the product we received), economic downturn, and lack of interest, not un-permitted sleds using the trails. I am not saying that's the issue everywhere, but it was here. Is there an issue with un-permitted sleds using your trails in some places? Undoubtably, there is. You have a compliance issue, which does need to be addressed. I do not think that Val tags are your answer. I think You will see huge opposition to it from the non-OFSC snowmobile owners. I am sure that the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters will be opposed, as well as the Trappers Federation, and folks who I haven't even thought of. "Organized Snowmobiling" needs to convince those people who are truly stealing your product to pay for it, and to fine the crap out of those who continue to steal, not assume everybody rides their sled the same way and for the same reasons you do. Let the slamming begin. I can think of many things that I subsidize that I do not use. I can also think of many things that I have been smeared with the same brush as a few whole ruined it for all! Your trails closed I get it but look at the bright side we are working to open them again! I as well as you do not pay a Val tag fee so we are being subsidized by those who pay for one. So us arguing about not paying for a Val Tag is about still wanting a Val Tag for free when everyone else pays. Hense its OK if we are subsidized but not if its us doing the subsidizing. Considering how long we have been getting free val tags it will take many many years to break even and it starts costing us over what we have saved so far. As far as fisherman and hunters go they should never have been exempt in the first place and only helped to create the whole mess anyway. Time to get all sledders on the same page and as history has shown you can't please everyone. A Val tag system lowers the price of the permit which is one of your reasons and a unified all sledders pay give reason to start up the trails again and be part of the OFSC and collect moneys to operate. Probably a few thousand sledders in the area. But hey this is about how other provinces fund their trails and is only speculation on how Ontario could fund theirs. As to my tunnel vision goes I see how other provinces fund theirs and they had the same non trail riders as Ontario. So if it can work for them it can work for us. Distric 16 and 17 are more the areas with tunnel vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucking Pig Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I can think of many things that I subsidize that I do not use. I can also think of many things that I have been smeared with the same brush as a few whole ruined it for all! Your trails closed I get it but look at the bright side we are working to open them again! I as well as you do not pay a Val tag fee so we are being subsidized by those who pay for one. So us arguing about not paying for a Val Tag is about still wanting a Val Tag for free when everyone else pays. Hense its OK if we are subsidized but not if its us doing the subsidizing. Considering how long we have been getting free val tags it will take many many years to break even and it starts costing us over what we have saved so far. As far as fisherman and hunters go they should never have been exempt in the first place and only helped to create the whole mess anyway. Time to get all sledders on the same page and as history has shown you can't please everyone. A Val tag system lowers the price of the permit which is one of your reasons and a unified all sledders pay give reason to start up the trails again and be part of the OFSC and collect moneys to operate. Probably a few thousand sledders in the area. But hey this is about how other provinces fund their trails and is only speculation on how Ontario could fund theirs. As to my tunnel vision goes I see how other provinces fund theirs and they had the same non trail riders as Ontario. So if it can work for them it can work for us. Distric 16 and 17 are more the areas with tunnel vision. What, exactly, is it that we in the North are being subsidized for by not paying for a Val tag? As far as I know, the Val tag fee was instituted back in the mid to late Nineties as purely as revenue generator for the gov't of the day. The north was exempted in recognition of the higher fuel prices we paid, and that there were more uses for a snowmobile than joy riding. I do not think that the Val tag funds were targeted for any special snowmobile purpose. That would have been the time for the OFSC to go looking for a piece of the Val tag pie, in my opinion. And, at the time, I probably would have supported it. As far as the trails in my area coming back, well... I wish you well with that, but it will take more than Val tags to see that happen I think. I don't think most of the folks here care if the OFSC trails come back. I don't think it's the kind of sledding that goes on here anymore. I was formerly very heavily involved with our club. I planned, laid out and helped build most of the trail in the Nipigon system. I worked hard, like most volunteers in this sport, to try to get local business involved, to get people using and supporting the trails. There just isn't the interest, especially once the permit went past $180.00. With only TOPS trails, and no loops, it got boring and too expensive. All you could do was ride out to the next town (or 1/2 tank of gas), then turn around and go back. whoopee. If the OFSC comes back to D16, it's going to need a different model. The locals really just don't care, at least at the current price. Anyway. You and I will not agree on this, so I guess we will have to see what comes down the pipe. I truly hope that something comes about that helps you enjoy the type of snowmobiling that you enjoy, but I also hope it does not involve me having to pay for it. BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 What, exactly, is it that we in the North are being subsidized for by not paying for a Val tag? As far as I know, the Val tag fee was instituted back in the mid to late Nineties as purely as revenue generator for the gov't of the day. The north was exempted in recognition of the higher fuel prices we paid, and that there were more uses for a snowmobile than joy riding. I do not think that the Val tag funds were targeted for any special snowmobile purpose. That would have been the time for the OFSC to go looking for a piece of the Val tag pie, in my opinion. And, at the time, I probably would have supported it. As far as the trails in my area coming back, well... I wish you well with that, but it will take more than Val tags to see that happen I think. I don't think most of the folks here care if the OFSC trails come back. I don't think it's the kind of sledding that goes on here anymore. I was formerly very heavily involved with our club. I planned, laid out and helped build most of the trail in the Nipigon system. I worked hard, like most volunteers in this sport, to try to get local business involved, to get people using and supporting the trails. There just isn't the interest, especially once the permit went past $180.00. With only TOPS trails, and no loops, it got boring and too expensive. All you could do was ride out to the next town (or 1/2 tank of gas), then turn around and go back. whoopee. If the OFSC comes back to D16, it's going to need a different model. The locals really just don't care, at least at the current price. Anyway. You and I will not agree on this, so I guess we will have to see what comes down the pipe. I truly hope that something comes about that helps you enjoy the type of snowmobiling that you enjoy, but I also hope it does not involve me having to pay for it. BP I like you will sled long past the end of the OFSC if it happens. Luckily I have the option of Man and Sask. If all I had was this area with no trails and back to bushwacking and stump busting I would sell my sled and get out of the sport. Riding up and down the lake gets old real fast, breaking trail and parts of the sled doing it is to expensive. No I like riding the groomed trails from town to town. I like 140 to 240mile day rides for a burger. I don't ice fish and I don't own a camp. Wish I could own a camp but they start was past my reach! I wish the OFSC would have looked at Val Tag permits long ago. Like you say as permit prices climbed we have seen the same thing. |Almost 900 members in the beginning down to under 200. Once permits rose past 140 people rebelled and the dicing of the OFSC started. It just got worse as the permit rose. Closed trails didn't help anything. What has happened in Nipigon if let happen elsewhere just means an even harder time to get the traisl back if ever. Something freash and new has to be tried. I have my idea of what can save it others have theirs. In the end you and I are only pawns someone else will decide what happens and maybe where I ride. While my ideas may be different then yours I have more in common with you then the southern members. Unlike you however my trails have not collapsed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 There is many precedence for this approach of ALL paying and not ALL using. I pay school taxes for two properties, yet I do not have Children. How is that fair? Why am I paying for your child's education? In your municipal taxes you pay for Public Transit, use it or not! And you still pay a fee to use it if you choose to use it. My municipal taxes pay for sidewalks, but I drive everywhere and where I live there is no sidewalks. I never use them, so why do I have to pay for them? There are many benefits to the economy by keeping organized Snowmobiling alive. I wouldn't want to see the entire OFSC trail fee added to the validation tag fee, but it could work well for the Northern communities if they did add a portion of it. The current rate of $15 is a joke considering that ATV plates are a one-time fee, yet they often use the roads. In some cases, the ATV/UTV vehicle type is not legal for road use, yet it still requires a license plate. If they were to raise the snowmobile Val Tag fee to $48, most people would bellyache for a year or two and then forget it was ever $15. You ARE Canadian and you ARE complacent when you get screwed by so many things our Government does already, why stand up now? Sit quietly like you did when the HST was bullied in by the Provincial Government. We all pay for Health care, but we do not all use it proportionally. The more income you have, the more health care tax you pay. How is that relevant to your use of the services? You come here from another country, you get a job, then you bring your sick parents here that will never work a day in this country or contribute in any way. After 6 months of residence, we pay for all of their healthcare costs. There are so many examples, I'm not sure how anyone with some education or common sense can argue that this will never happen. It very well could and you won't have a choice and you will pay it. Like it or not, that is the way government works. You want fair....move! Just try and find another place that continues to pay your bills because you have chosen not to work. Sledders are not typically rich. Snowmobiling cost me less than smoking. I don't smoke, I snowmobile and get off my ass in the Winter and embrace it. Now back to the original question. How do other provinces/states fund trails? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 I read an interesting 2011 article about the re-shaping of the Newfoundland trail system (link at end): Newfoundland is not comparable to Ontario in trail kms., but oddly enough they have a lot of registered sleds. Clubs - 16 Km trails - 3,600 Reg'd snowmobiles - 101,360 Permit Price (Early) $80 for first; $60 for second; $60 for third Regular Price after Dec. 15th $120; $100 for second; $100 for third. $35 for 3 day; $50 for 7 day. Recent legislative initiatives 2012 Better tools to patrol Additional powers to enforce http://www.releases.gov.nl.ca/releases/2012/servicenl/1122n10.htm and in 2013 the provincial government provided a direct subsidy to Labrador of $351,000 to continue a grooming subsidy which maintains a quality winter snowmobile trail system connecting otherwise isolated communities during winter months. __ The 2011 article was an eye opener regarding governance. A 26 member board was reduced to 9 members. A heavy reliance on the SPOT technology. Radical changes to grooming : "There were clubs with paid operators and clubs with volunteer' operators". "All groomer operators will now be paid employees of the NLSF". Radical changes to funding: "Clubs will no longer have any responsibility for trail pass distribution and collection of monies. This will be administered by the NLSF office in Deer Lake". The feeling I got was that they went through a governance review and THAT led to changes. Here's the 2011 article http://www.docstoc.com/docs/91743778/Welcome-to-the-first-ever-Newfoundland-_-Labrador-Snowmobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 They should make the permit tax deductible. That would really boost the economy. There isn't allot of sports in the winter, that drive the economy like snowmobiling does. I spend more in a weekend, then some people do in a month. I could go to Florida instead and ride a jet ski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 They should make the permit tax deductible. That would really boost the economy. There isn't allot of sports in the winter, that drive the economy like snowmobiling does. I spend more in a weekend, then some people do in a month. I could go to Florida instead and ride a jet ski. If you (the purchaser) get a benefit, it's not tax deductible. Example - Princess Margaret hospital lottery. Agree with you regarding the economic benefit ... and gov't has to recognize this when it comes to funding: In 2012 there were 129,087 snowmobiles sold worldwide; 48,689 were sold in the U.S. and 40,165 were sold in Canada. There are 1.4 million registered snowmobiles in the US and 593,248 registered snowmobiles in Canada. The Economic Impact of Snowmobiling:United States - $23 billion annually Canada - $7 billion annually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 My last comment on funding, and those that say 'cost' is not a factor (or shouldn't be) to permit buyers: The average snowmobiler is 41 Average household income is $68,000 Average yearly travels are 1481 km 53 percent trailer to snow; 47 percent launch from house or cottage. 80 percent are trail riders (other 20 percent fish, have camps, etc.) THIS is THE GUY you're trying to reach. Don't look to the left; don't look to the right at AGM. That's not THE GUY (or GAL). How do you convince the person above to: a. sled; b. purchase a permit. 41 years old; household income of $68,000. http://www.snowmobile.org/pr_snowfacts.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 North American wide facts. I don't think they work here in S. Ontario. But its a good picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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