02Sled Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Railways are currently doing quite well financially in Canada..... one of their big growth areas is transporting oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Yup the railways sure don't want customers a few years ago a local manufacturer had over 100 carloads to send to Kingston CN told them flat out that they do not want that business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted April 9, 2013 Author Share Posted April 9, 2013 Don't mention Sudbury too loud. So the lumber industry cuts back to create an shortage, building materials are up just about 40 percent. Vale in Sudbury is about to do the same. No enough profit. I guess this is what happens when our gov't allows the sale of our raw material resource to off shore companies. Our govt's have failed to protect our natural resources. And yes Lep is right, we have'nt hit the bottom yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkids Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Sudbury has hosted the AGM in the past and we have more than enough space to do it only one small problem. Not enough bodies around to step up to help out with all the pre planning and stuff. Out of 8 clubs in the STP system I would say you would be hard pressed to find 80 people who help out on a regular basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Sudbury has hosted the AGM in the past and we have more than enough space to do it only one small problem. Not enough bodies around to step up to help out with all the pre planning and stuff. Out of 8 clubs in the STP system I would say you would be hard pressed to find 80 people who help out on a regular basis You are correct, many people have no idea what it takes to make the AGM happen, district 5 looked at doing it again, it was discussed at the district meeting a couple years ago, same problem, not enough people to commit the time to put it all together. It kinda upsets me at the amount of money that is spent on the AGM, it takes allot of money off the snow, but it is an integral part of the system, I wish there was a less expensive way to hold the meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkids Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 You are correct, many people have no idea what it takes to make the AGM happen, district 5 looked at doing it again, it was discussed at the district meeting a couple years ago, same problem, not enough people to commit the time to put it all together. It kinda upsets me at the amount of money that is spent on the AGM, it takes allot of money off the snow, but it is an integral part of the system, I wish there was a less expensive way to hold the meetings. It was discussed at one time to have a virutual meeting but it was canned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 It was discussed at one time to have a virutual meeting but it was canned Business does virtual all the time and for very large numbers of people... how much of the AGM is pure social and fluff. Does it really have to be 3 days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Business does virtual all the time and for very large numbers of people... how much of the AGM is pure social and fluff. Does it really have to be 3 days? There is a ton of information that goes with the AGM, every question that is asked on this forum can be answered with info from either the AGM package of reports or the discusions that take place within the meetings. Allot of business gets taken care of, and yes, the volunteers do get to kick back and enjoy themselves for the effort they put into the federation, of course it is all later on in the evening, no different then free time after work. The big downfall is not all volunteers get to experiance it, that in itself sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 With many different conferences and conventions they are all typically multi day day events. If they were single day events..people would not travel for a day. Conversely those that require extensive travel time would simply also not bother for a day event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 There is a ton of information that goes with the AGM, every question that is asked on this forum can be answered with info from either the AGM package of reports or the discusions that take place within the meetings. Allot of business gets taken care of, and yes, the volunteers do get to kick back and enjoy themselves for the effort they put into the federation, of course it is all later on in the evening, no different then free time after work. The big downfall is not all volunteers get to experiance it, that in itself sucks. Don't deny for a second that there is a ton of information but you just mentioned the AGM package or reports. These could all be distributed electronically to almost everyone. Dicussions within meetings could be done online interactively. I was part of a 750 person online meeting with participants from around the globe 2 days ago. The speakers could be seen and heard. If you had a question you hit a key and the moderator turned your mute off to let you pose your question. This could be an option. I realize there is a lot of business.... that is why I asked how much was fun. To maintain status quo just because that is how we have always done it is no longer valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I always thought that the Toronto Powersports show should be farther north where most of the people that participate in the sport live, and then maybe combine that with the AGM to make it worth the trip for everyone. They would probably save a ton of money by putting it all under one roof too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 There is no doubt that is an option O2, it just needs a group of people to put a plan together and make the proposal for the membership to vote on. I will say, I wouldn't vote for it. You can't feel emotion sitting at a computer, the feeling you get sitting in that room with everyone pervokes a person to speak up, where in most cases they would just sit and listen and keep their thoughts to themselves. You get a real good feeling for what people want and are thinking in a live atmospher. I would kinda compare it to trying to have a relationship online......I never have, it doesn't make sence to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I wonder if some clubs can't attend, or want the option of attending/voting 'online'. Not an all or nothing approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 There is no doubt that is an option O2, it just needs a group of people to put a plan together and make the proposal for the membership to vote on. I will say, I wouldn't vote for it. You can't feel emotion sitting at a computer, the feeling you get sitting in that room with everyone pervokes a person to speak up, where in most cases they would just sit and listen and keep their thoughts to themselves. You get a real good feeling for what people want and are thinking in a live atmospher. I would kinda compare it to trying to have a relationship online......I never have, it doesn't make sence to me. Perhaps have it as an available option for those who are simply too far away to make it practical to attend in person or simply can't for economic reasons. The same reason people do it in business... just not viable based on distance. As Canuck just mentioned... it could be an option to make it more inclusive. I see lots of proxy votes occurring because clubs don't have their own representatives attend. Perhaps if they could vote electronically you may see different results at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Like I said, by all means, put a proposal together and have it presented, that is what the floundering federation needs, more people with ideas to take initiative. There is no doubt change is needed, it sounds like you have ideas and can help make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Like I said, by all means, put a proposal together and have it presented, that is what the floundering federation needs, more people with ideas to take initiative. There is no doubt change is needed, it sounds like you have ideas and can help make a difference. While I would like to I don't have much faith in it getting to the AGM. The structure makes it damn hard. I suggested a while ago that rather than tie the classic to 50% of the cost of the full permit it be tied to a set $ off the full permit. Basically if the full permit goes up $10 the classic only goes up $5 and the gap widens between the two. At the time the full permit was $250 and the classic $125. I suggested a $75 fixed discount rate from the full permit rather than the % off which would keep the gap the same. To get it to the AGM I need to convince my club to move it forward to the district to convince them to move it forward to the AGM. The response... sorry there is already a proposal about the cost of the permits on the table. It was a different proposal but it had to do with permit prices so mine never got anywhere. I would like to see the AGM in the spring rather than the fall when situations are current in peoples minds and decisions can be made in time for implementation for the next season. We move too slow. We make a decision in the fall of 2013 and typically the change is in place for the 2014/2015 season. Too late. To make this change would take the same process and not occur for years. I will make my suggestions at our clubs AGM and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 While I would like to I don't have much faith in it getting to the AGM. The structure makes it damn hard. I suggested a while ago that rather than tie the classic to 50% of the cost of the full permit it be tied to a set $ off the full permit. Basically if the full permit goes up $10 the classic only goes up $5 and the gap widens between the two. At the time the full permit was $250 and the classic $125. I suggested a $75 fixed discount rate from the full permit rather than the % off which would keep the gap the same. To get it to the AGM I need to convince my club to move it forward to the district to convince them to move it forward to the AGM. The response... sorry there is already a proposal about the cost of the permits on the table. It was a different proposal but it had to do with permit prices so mine never got anywhere. I would like to see the AGM in the spring rather than the fall when situations are current in peoples minds and decisions can be made in time for implementation for the next season. We move too slow. We make a decision in the fall of 2013 and typically the change is in place for the 2014/2015 season. Too late. To make this change would take the same process and not occur for years. I will make my suggestions at our clubs AGM and hope for the best. We used to have the AGM in the spring. It was moved to fall because they couldn't get permits moneys etc. done in time. Right now the cutoff for permit is April 30th I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Does anyone know if the free family day weekend Is a go next season too? By the sounds of it, it has to come up at the agm again and can't be changed or eliminated until 2014-2015 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I suspect it will be a repeat since all I hear is what a success it was since there was something like 14,000 of the free permits issued. I refuse to call it a success just yet though. If it puts 14,000 sleds on the trails and they simply ride for free and do nothing else... it is a dismal failure. If a sizable portion of those 14,000 buy permits next year I will call it a success. If people now realize they can ride for free on the Family Day weekend, and the number of free permits goes up without any upturn in full season permits it is a failure. My wife didn't get out much this year. Family Day weekend was the when she rode the most. She was out one other weekend. In hind sight I could have bought one 3 day permit for the other weekend and she could have rode family weekend for free. It would have put me ahead $ wise. Being the optimist however I will have a full permit for her again next year so she can ride when she wants to without worrying about a permit. I never know if she is going or not until the morning we head out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 The free permit won't lead to a big increase in permit revenue. A good portion of free permits were given out in d5 and d9. These same people rode for the next several weekends, since there was no were to purchase a 3 day permit, except online (most sledders just used the lack of available permits to ride for free) I seen lots of sleds with no permits on them especially mid week. I seen one group none had permits. They said they were just trying out friends sleds to see if they wanted to buy them or not. Be nice if the police would go out mid week for a change. They only patrol on weekends here in d5 it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogirl69 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 The free permit won't lead to a big increase in permit revenue. A good portion of free permits were given out in d5 and d9. These same people rode for the next several weekends, since there was no were to purchase a 3 day permit, except online (most sledders just used the lack of available permits to ride for free) I seen lots of sleds with no permits on them especially mid week. I seen one group none had permits. They said they were just trying out friends sleds to see if they wanted to buy them or not. Be nice if the police would go out mid week for a change. They only patrol on weekends here in d5 it seems. Time to plan on getting trained to be a Trail Patrol for your area next year since you seem to be off all winter and ride during the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Time to plan on getting trained to be a Trail Patrol for your area next year since you seem to be off all winter and ride during the week. Trail Patrol is a program I fully support but needs more teeth and the individual clubs need to get over their territorial attitudes in some situations. You are told wear the TP vest whenever you are out riding regardless if it is in your club or not.... but don't dare stop anyone outside of your club and sell them a permit trailside or give them a notice of tresspass. That is poaching another clubs potential permit sale. I guess you could follow them a 1000' down the trail and get them when they are now on your clubs trail. The alternative is as you ride by each other, let them go by and they think... I got lucky, he/she didn't care or he/she didn't notice I didn't have a trail permit all because an adjacent club may say you poached a permit from their trails. And you wonder why so many ride without permits. The chances of getting caught are small and if they do the TP have to be on their club trails to enforce it. If TP finds someone on a trail without a permit anywhere in the province they should be able to stop them regardless of their trails or not and sell them a permit trailside. At the same time you need to have some degree of caution not to tick off a landowner on their property or stop someone in an area where a permit isn't required but if you eliminate one more freeloader we are all ahead of the game. Better to have another club and the OFSC get the permit money than none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Trail Patrol is a program I fully support but needs more teeth and the individual clubs need to get over their territorial attitudes in some situations. You are told wear the TP vest whenever you are out riding regardless if it is in your club or not.... but don't dare stop anyone outside of your club and sell them a permit trailside or give them a notice of trespass That is poaching another clubs potential permit sale. I guess you could follow them a 1000' down the trail and get them when they are now on your clubs trail. The alternative is as you ride by each other, let them go by and they think... I got lucky, he/she didn't care or he/she didn't notice I didn't have a trail permit all because an adjacent club may say you poached a permit from their trails. And you wonder why so many ride without permits. The chances of getting caught are small and if they do the TP have to be on their club trails to enforce it. If TP finds someone on a trail without a permit anywhere in the province they should be able to stop them regardless of their trails or not and sell them a permit trailside. At the same time you need to have some degree of caution not to tick off a landowner on their property or stop someone in an area where a permit isn't required but if you eliminate one more freeloader we are all ahead of the game. Better to have another club and the OFSC get the permit money than none at all. Gary there is absolutely no reason TP cannot stop and chat with an unpermitted sled anywhere in the province, but the problem with writing up a notice of trespass when out of area, it's likely that one wouldn't know if they are on private property or other lands that hold to an LUP agreement, or what to write on the notice in terms of where the location is ..eg .. Lot and concession #. As for selling permits provincially I agree and this was brought forth to AGM many times in the past by various members over the years, and the majority of the membership always shot it down, not only for the revenue perspective but also for as stated above ... not knowing if your on private or land that holds an LUP agreement with the township or municipality to legally write someone up for trespassing. When you have a chance get a copy of the latest BOG report from your club, there's some great changes to the TP and STOP program being pursued that looks like it will over come those issues, if the province agrees with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 There is no doubt that is an option O2, it just needs a group of people to put a plan together and make the proposal for the membership to vote on. I will say, I wouldn't vote for it. You can't feel emotion sitting at a computer, the feeling you get sitting in that room with everyone pervokes a person to speak up, where in most cases they would just sit and listen and keep their thoughts to themselves. You get a real good feeling for what people want and are thinking in a live atmospher. I would kinda compare it to trying to have a relationship online......I never have, it doesn't make sence to me. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Gary there is absolutely no reason TP cannot stop and chat with an unpermitted sled anywhere in the province, but the problem with writing up a notice of trespass when out of area, it's likely that one wouldn't know if they are on private property or other lands that hold to an LUP agreement, or what to write on the notice in terms of where the location is ..eg .. Lot and concession #. As for selling permits provincially I agree and this was brought forth to AGM many times in the past by various members over the years, and the majority of the membership always shot it down, not only for the revenue perspective but also for as stated above ... not knowing if your on private or land that holds an LUP agreement with the township or municipality to legally write someone up for trespassing. When you have a chance get a copy of the latest BOG report from your club, there's some great changes to the TP and STOP program being pursued that looks like it will over come those issues, if the province agrees with it. I do have the BOG document and hopefully we will see changes come to fruition. I recongnize the concerns about LUP and that is why I said you have to be careful and one would err on the side of caution. There are some areas where it is panifully obvious there is a LUP permit in place and others not so obvious. I agree with stop and chat but that in some ways sends a message that the only consequence to not having a permit is to getting talked to. In past years I found very few sleds without a permit. This year there were significantly more with some of the wildest excuses. I could have easily sold them a permit however I didn't want to go down that road of poaching from another club and didn't. On one occasion in particular I told them where they could get a permit from the local neighbouring club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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