Misdirected Blame? (OFSC)

[FreezerBurnt]

Now im relitively new here and i'm sure alot of this wouldn't even becoming to lite if we had local trails to ride. That being said perhaps there is simply too many kms of trails in this massive province to be maintained. What would happen if we cut the number of km down to 20 to 25 thousand instead of the current 39000? I only put about 1000miles per season on 2 sleds between my wife and myself. Most in the muskoka area and when conditions suck we head north to kirkland lake area. I'm sure there are endless thousands of kms in this province that rarely get used. If it means scaling the whole system back by closing trails than go for it . Wont bother me any.

that comes back to what I said ealier, EXAMPLE I could not give a rats ass about Ottawa trails, so lets close them, i don't ride them

There just alienated a bunch of permit buyers that actually ride there

It is not a simple answer, though there has to be a will from the people that actually live in that area to want the trails survive and thrive, not just 2-3 people do the work for thousands

[skidooer]

but when we do speak we either get into a heated battle , flamed for speaking on how it is ...

If you look back on those discussions, I think you'll find that they only become heated when the "whys" are missing. Check out the thread about moving the OFSC out of their office. Whether you think it is a dumb idea or not, the only response it really generated was basically "We have the cash. Don't worry your pretty little head." Great, we learned the OFSC can afford to run it without taking money of the trail, but we didn't learn why the OFSC needs an office in the first place. It is still being funded by our tax dollars.

That's a pretty innocuous example because it probably is a dumb idea. But extrapolate the example out, and it should be obvious why it raises ire in others. It would be like me saying "the OFSC needs a new website." "Why?" "Because the current one is blue." It doesn't get us anywhere. I try to back up all of my statements with concrete examples with full explanations. Please call me out if I do happen to mess up, it's in my interest to get better.

I really appreciate you inviting me to join the ranks of volunteers. Though I think you'll find I have been volunteering for quite some time. The capacity I give is small, I will grant you that, but I do my best. I really do admire those who can give much, much more than I. I greatly commend the work you put into the organization, you are clearly making a difference.

I put myself through a lot of self doubt and agony over the years trying to fix this problem, but it has become quite clear to me from this thread that I have been right all along. I feel we are slowly making headway. Keep your chin up, we can fix this together.

[Wildman]

Here's where I take issue with the "the volunteers are the ofsc and the ofsc is the volunteers" line.

Exactly who makes the decisions at the OFSC that affect the clubs.IE :

Who decided the old signs needed to be replaced that showed a corner or an intersection or what ever?

Was it a voting majority of volunteers?

Did a MAJORITY of the "volunteers" involved with their clubs decide to shut down the manitowadge club or did the OFSC head office make that decision?

One straight answer please. No BS. No ofsc rah rah rah. Just a straight answer. Who made those decisions?

First off, I am only at the top of page 2, so this may be a repeat answer, but I doubt it.

I can't say for sure what happened with the changing of the signs about 6? years ago, but what happens now I can tell you. The insurance company gives advise on how to sign trails. They have offered to supply an independent auditing team to asses the signage and give detailed feed back. If the signage is changed to their recommendations, the insurance premium will be lowered. We received a 7% decrease this year because of the changes already made.

The amount of money paid out to law suits that have fallen back on signage issues are absolutely mind boggling. ie a person awarded millions because the sign said 90* corner and it was only 78*, they total their sled, get hurt and it was because of faulty signage.......there is where the beloved corner sign went. Talk to judicial system about that 1.

[Wildman]

Thanks for expanding on my ramblings. I wonder how much diesel the clubs use in a season? Find a supplier that is across the province & tell them we purchase X number of litres of fuel (on average based over a number of years). There has to be other "economies of scale". The OFSC deals w/ 1 insurance co' (at least they did in the 90s).

The way some people talk every decision HQ makes has to be run past the AGM. Can't the chosen few make a decision on their own? What colour paper for press releases shouldn't be to hard to figure out.

To the guys that are involved w/ the clubs @ the executive level: Next time you're talking to the OFSC executives ask them if they surf the various sledding forums & see what is being said. If they aren't, they had better get into the 21st century. I'm sure they could implement or at least discuss some of the ramblings posted online. I don't expect them to sign up on OC, FS, etcetera & introduce themselves to become a dart board for every gripe folks have about the OFSC either.

I find it hard to believe if any of us have a suggestion it can't be directed @ the top but has to work its way up the bureaucratic ladder from the club level.

can u please get hold of the prime minister of Canada and tell him how to fix the country...........in any governing body there are steps, do you really think anyone has time to answer all the questions and take advise from all the people that would be offering it? Like it or not, there is a process, it ain't gonna be changed because people don't have time for it.

[Wildman]

you people all want change, u all want someone to listen to u, u want 2 do it from a key board. I don't know what 2 tell u, it just doesn't work like that yet. Maybe some day u can type ur requests in and the dispatcher can send out the employee's 2 get the job done, of course all this will not b implemented untill the permit is north of 2500 bux and we sell the same # as we do now.

If I get 2 spare hours with nothing better 2 do, I will type out what I know about how the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs work and the different levels, how people get there, how they make the decisions and what not.

For now I will tell u this, most of the goings on in the Ivory Tower in Barrie is administration.......believe it or not, the paperwork needs to be filed somewhere.

u can flame me, I don't give a rats ass, I don't wear my heart on my shoulder, and I don't care if u don't like how the process works. I do know if u care enough, u will take the steps to make the difference, if u don't, and u complain, u r the bigger problem than the people that do make the ofsc go around.

[02Sled]

Decisions within the OFSC are made by the member clubs majority votes at AGM, or at their wishes by their Dist representative (dist Gov) when time restraints are involved.

Any new signage guidelines are either brought forth at AGM for vote, or if it needs to be done right away then the board of Gov's will decide as the clubs voice and carry it's district clubs vote. (they should also communicate with their dist clubs before making any decision if they can, which is up to the member clubs to make sure they elec a dist gov who does such).

Manitowadge club ...... I believe there's a thread on here with some of the exec from there explaining why they shut down their club, in the Northern Ontario forums (Dist 16 thread). The OFSC doesn't have the power to shut down anything, trails or clubs.

The only decisions made by paid employees are small day to day decisions within their allowed budget, and even for those they still go through the OFSC volunteer exec (Prez, VP, 2nd VP and Secretary Treasurer, either before hand or have to answer to after the fact. The cannot make decisions on governance.

On a side note my final post on this subject ....

I understand everyones frustrations, I feel them myself, but I trulyl believe there is no one other then sledders themselves who will ever put forth the effort time and money to change, save, revamp .. ect anything to do with sledding. Yes sledding generates a huge economic benefit in some areas, others not so much, but let’s not kid ourselves, outside of the sledders themselves, some lodge and restaurant owners, sled dealerships and gas stations no one else really cares about sledding. If it can be made better the only ones who will do it are sledders themselves, either by pulling up their socks and doing it themselves, or by paying to have it done, which if you take out the tens of thousands of volunteer hours each season, the rider would be paying 10x or better each season to ride a network as good as it is now.

Well said Nutter. However that model may have to change and evolve from what it is today. It seems that in todays world you need to be more reactive than once a year making decisions that may not be implemented until a year later. The reality is that the world we live in is dynamic and changing dramatically at a pace faster than has ever been seen before in history. This is largely driven by technology but the expectations of the consumer are changing at a similar pace. Perhaps it is time that the model has to change where the OFSC can make necessary changes as required without having to wait for an AGM perhaps a year later to perhaps have the necessary be considered a recommendation that needs to be reviewed which takes another year and then the response heard at the next AGM and voted Yes let's proceed. It's now 2 years after the change should have been implemented. Picture a business being run that way... it would not be viable. In business you have a CEO say this is happening. Do it now and it happens. The structure of all of the clubs working independently and then uniting for a common goal formed the OFSC many many years ago. That was a different time and place. I fear we may have not kept up with changing times and dynamics of todays world. One of the challenges may be that at least from my perception the vast majortiy of those running the clubs. definitely not all, seem to be retirees. Often as people become older they become more set in the "we do it this way because that is the way we have always done it". Innivative new approaches for the sake of improvement are always welcome.

[Wildbill]

Well said Nutter. However that model may have to change and evolve from what it is today. It seems that in todays world you need to be more reactive than once a year making decisions that may not be implemented until a year later. The reality is that the world we live in is dynamic and changing dramatically at a pace faster than has ever been seen before in history. This is largely driven by technology but the expectations of the consumer are changing at a similar pace. Perhaps it is time that the model has to change where the OFSC can make necessary changes as required without having to wait for an AGM perhaps a year later to perhaps have the necessary be considered a recommendation that needs to be reviewed which takes another year and then the response heard at the next AGM and voted Yes let's proceed. It's now 2 years after the change should have been implemented. Picture a business being run that way... it would not be viable. In business you have a CEO say this is happening. Do it now and it happens. The structure of all of the clubs working independently and then uniting for a common goal formed the OFSC many many years ago. That was a different time and place. I fear we may have not kept up with changing times and dynamics of todays world. One of the challenges may be that at least from my perception the vast majortiy of those running the clubs. definitely not all, seem to be retirees. Often as people become older they become more set in the "we do it this way because that is the way we have always done it". Innivative new approaches for the sake of improvement are always welcome.

The governors meet regularly. The governors attend district meetings that are attended by the clubs senior directors and are given feedback and thoughts there So the flow is volunteers to clubs,clubs to district,district to governors,governors to OFSC. Major policy decisions are made at AGM

[02Sled]

Thanks for expanding on my ramblings. I wonder how much diesel the clubs use in a season? Find a supplier that is across the province & tell them we purchase X number of litres of fuel (on average based over a number of years). There has to be other "economies of scale". The OFSC deals w/ 1 insurance co' (at least they did in the 90s).

The way some people talk every decision HQ makes has to be run past the AGM. Can't the chosen few make a decision on their own? What colour paper for press releases shouldn't be to hard to figure out.

To the guys that are involved w/ the clubs @ the executive level: Next time you're talking to the OFSC executives ask them if they surf the various sledding forums & see what is being said. If they aren't, they had better get into the 21st century. I'm sure they could implement or at least discuss some of the ramblings posted online. I don't expect them to sign up on OC, FS, etcetera & introduce themselves to become a dart board for every gripe folks have about the OFSC either.

I find it hard to believe if any of us have a suggestion it can't be directed @ the top but has to work its way up the bureaucratic ladder from the club level.

Often businesses have an employee suggestion avenue that results in creative thinking. These suggestions when implemented are often compensated for. Often the suggestions may not work but at least they are considered by those who can make the change. In the structure we have today. If I understand it correctly is that it has a number of hurdles to get to be considered. One of the drawbacks I see is a scenario such as;

I am in a club and am a creative innovative thinker who believes I have come up with a process or change that will be of significant benefit to the sport as a whole. It is now October. First I need to convince the board of my local club that is comprised of a group of people who don't like change. People are resistant to change in general by nature but these are a group that follow the credo if it was good enough for the last 10 years it is good enough for now. My concept may not have a whole lot of relevance to the club executive but it may realize significant benefit to many other clubs in the province. Because I cannot convince my club executive of the merits of my idea it dies there.

Let's say I am a determined individual and I get my local club to support my idea after coming at these individuals repeatedly. Now we manage to get this onto the agenda for the AGM for next fall. Next fall it is proposed and due to a significant mixture of opionions, some of the people at the AGM are progressive thinkers and others are we like it the way it is thinkers, it will be reviewed by a committee during the coming year and they will make their recommendations at the next AGM. Now 2 years later the recommendation is that the idea is something that should be implemented. Now let's start to do that. Two and a half years later at the end of that sled season we have the solution in place ready for the next season. That is three years after I bring forward the suggestion.

Can anyone else see the downside to how long it takes for things to change.

[Greggie]

Here we go.... We have the problem that some areas the permit sales are going down year after year, in other areas they are close to the same or a little increase. Why are permits sales down? First it is the amount of money it takes to get out with your snowmobile. As example, eight years ago the cost of a snowmobile was $8000 and now it is $12000, an increase of 50% or $4000. That is a lot. The permit price 8 years ago was $160 (if I am right) and now it is $200. The insurance was $200 and now it is $300. As you can see, the killer is the increase of the price of a new snowmobile. Oh well, then I buy a used one, I agree that cost less money but also the last 4 years the price of good used snowmobiles is going up fast. Second it is the economy, all over the place companies are shutting down and laying of people. A lot of them find again a job but for lower salary. Less money in the pocket, less money to spend. The family is more important, so people are selling their snowmobile.

Running a club, is not running a club what it was 15 years ago. Now running a club is like running a company. Things need to be done and not when we feel to do it. In most clubs there are a couple of volunteers who do 60-80% of all work together and they love it. Once in a while they are pissed off because the red tape, changes, problems with snowmobilers and landowners. Oh well that is life, nothing is perfect. If you have only some volunteers and they do together most of the work, if someone stops volunteering, the volunteers left has todo more and more work. This is not to bad, until he is spending that amount of time volunteering that he hasn't enough time to spend for his job and his family. There we are volunteering becomes stress full and volunteers are burning out (example The Groomer Guy).

Now we have the problem that there are clubs who sell less and less permits and they can't survive anymore. There are lots of trails we groom 1-2 times a week and they don't have much traffic. As long as we can afford, we don't want to shut them down because they are the feeders to the main trails. Shutting them down means again less and less permit sales. So we are keeping them all open. In the North there are bigger problems then in the South, this has todo with population. Also in the South most snowmobilers are buying permits up North it is different. Some snowmobilers are buying permits, others don't. To get more money to the clubs is increasing the cost of the permit. In my opinion, you got a great deal for $200 to drive with your snowmobile through whole Ontario on groomed trails. Compare it with golfing or skiing, you can go as member to only one club or hill. Going somewhere else you have to pay again. But increasing means again less and less permit sales. If the price of a snowmobile goes up, for most snowmobilers it is fine. If the price of a permit goes up, they are complaining.

We need to do something, I agree. In my opinion, we need to do Driver Training for free. How more teenagers we get involved in snowmobiling how better, they need to run the snowmobile clubs in the future. Why are we charging them $40? The trainers are doing for free and I think it must become free for students. It will help us in the future.

More snowmobile promotion will help us. Promotion in snowmobile magazines doesn't generate much new permit buyers. We need to promote snowmobiling in new areas. As example the "go snowmobiling" campaign, a truck full of snowmobiles and going through Ontario to let people try out a snowmobile will get us new snowmobilers. New snowmobilers generate permit sales and that is what we want.

More promotion to get new volunteers. It is educating snowmobilers what need to be done and invite then to become a active volunteer. Volunteering must be fun so let's make it fun.

This is only a couple of comments; I can go on for a long time. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Thanks,

Greg

[Wildman]

A continuation of this thread.

The simple fact is that the OFSC has chosen to represent itself as a business instead of a community. It is not right or wrong, it just is what it is.

However, in doing so, the OFSC has opened itself to the normal scrutiny of business. Look around, people are hard on all businesses. They're actually pretty nice to the OFSC, by comparison. The fact that volunteers are doing the heavy lifting is irrelevant to the social structure they have setup.

Yeah, it really sucks to know that people disapprove of the hard work you are doing. I know all too well what it feels like. But by choosing to avoid the community, it is a fact of life you have to accept.

The only alternative is to become a community. It's the volunteers' choice.

how so? if u buy a permit, u r essentially purchasing a membership to an ofsc member club that allows u to ride a provincial wide trail system. How is that a business? It is a membership to a club, it allows u a voice within ur club and access to trails maintained by other clubs across the province that belong to the federation. Do you not realize there is a difference between a federation and a business? Snowmobile clubs do not sell anything, you put ur money in and it is used to maintain a trail to ride on, don't try and make it more than it is. I can tell u this, if it is turned into a business, a permit is gonna be well north of 200 bux and u ain't gonna have a say. Businesses sell products and services for profit. Who r the share holders in this ofsc business u speak of? What are the shares worth in monetary value? Is it privately owned or does it trade publicly? I really fail to see how this is a business. It isn't even run like a business. Maybe that is the problem, u people think it is a business where a panel of a handful of people make the decisions and they can be made immediately, sorry, that is not what this is, that is not what u bought into.

i don't know where u get the idea it is represented as a business

[Greggie]

how so? if u buy a permit, u r essentially purchasing a membership to an ofsc member club that allows u to ride a provincial wide trail system. How is that a business? It is a membership to a club, it allows u a voice within ur club and access to trails maintained by other clubs across the province that belong to the federation. Do you not realize there is a difference between a federation and a business? Snowmobile clubs do not sell anything, you put ur money in and it is used to maintain a trail to ride on, don't try and make it more than it is. I can tell u this, if it is turned into a business, a permit is gonna be well north of 200 bux and u ain't gonna have a say. Businesses sell products and services for profit. Who r the share holders in this ofsc business u speak of? What are the shares worth in monetary value? Is it privately owned or does it trade publicly? I really fail to see how this is a business. It isn't even run like a business. Maybe that is the problem, u people think it is a business where a panel of a handful of people make the decisions and they can be made immediately, sorry, that is not what this is, that is not what u bought into.

i don't know where u get the idea it is represented as a business

You are right that the OFSC office can't do much by themself. Also you are right, most snowmobilers are buying a permit to allows them to ride the trail system. Most don't want to be involved as a club member and going to club meetings. We were selling last year 475 trail passes and 3 permit buyers were coming out to some meetings. That is less then 1%. As I said, a club need to run like a business and it is not anymore to do things if you feel to do it. Same for the OFSC Office.

Thanks,

Greg

[Classic]

Often businesses have an employee suggestion avenue that results in creative thinking. These suggestions when implemented are often compensated for. Often the suggestions may not work but at least they are considered by those who can make the change. In the structure we have today. If I understand it correctly is that it has a number of hurdles to get to be considered. One of the drawbacks I see is a scenario such as; I am in a club and am a creative innovative thinker who believes I have come up with a process or change that will be of significant benefit to the sport as a whole. It is now October. First I need to convince the board of my local club that is comprised of a group of people who don't like change. People are resistant to change in general by nature but these are a group that follow the credo if it was good enough for the last 10 years it is good enough for now. My concept may not have a whole lot of relevance to the club executive but it may realize significant benefit to many other clubs in the province. Because I cannot convince my club executive of the merits of my idea it dies there. Let's say I am a determined individual and I get my local club to support my idea after coming at these individuals repeatedly. Now we manage to get this onto the agenda for the AGM for next fall. Next fall it is proposed and due to a significant mixture of opionions, some of the people at the AGM are progressive thinkers and others are we like it the way it is thinkers, it will be reviewed by a committee during the coming year and they will make their recommendations at the next AGM. Now 2 years later the recommendation is that the idea is something that should be implemented. Now let's start to do that. Two and a half years later at the end of that sled season we have the solution in place ready for the next season. That is three years after I bring forward the suggestion. Can anyone else see the downside to how long it takes for things to change.

I have to agree with a lot of your thoughts. However, in my many years of involvement I have have seen it many times that the clubs do not want change made without their input. They firmly believe that the organization is run from the bottom up, not top down. we hear it all the time on here how they are never given an opportunity to approve something and that the bad old OFSC is ramming down our thoats.

[Classic]

how so? if u buy a permit, u r essentially purchasing a membership to an ofsc member club that allows u to ride a provincial wide trail system. How is that a business? It is a membership to a club, it allows u a voice within ur club and access to trails maintained by other clubs across the province that belong to the federation. Do you not realize there is a difference between a federation and a business? Snowmobile clubs do not sell anything, you put ur money in and it is used to maintain a trail to ride on, don't try and make it more than it is. I can tell u this, if it is turned into a business, a permit is gonna be well north of 200 bux and u ain't gonna have a say. Businesses sell products and services for profit. Who r the share holders in this ofsc business u speak of? What are the shares worth in monetary value? Is it privately owned or does it trade publicly? I really fail to see how this is a business. It isn't even run like a business. Maybe that is the problem, u people think it is a business where a panel of a handful of people make the decisions and they can be made immediately, sorry, that is not what this is, that is not what u bought into. i don't know where u get the idea it is represented as a business

I believe your a little late in your opinions. We, the OFSC and clubs have been a business for years. Its just that the clubs neglect to operate that way. A good example is dead lines. With Gov regulations etc, clubs can no longer ignore due dates. But many today feel they can operate as they did twenty years ago. You cannot just do things that way today. A dead line is a deadline. It can't be ignored.

As the dollars get tighter in the corporation clubs are going to have to look real hard at their costs. Just because you're lucky enough to sell lots of permits in your area doesn't mean you can p--- the money up against the wall. I see many clubs wasting money in their trail layouts. Yes it's simpler to put a trail on a rail line but it costs many more dollars to maintain because of sever drifting. A real waste of $$$.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

how so? if u buy a permit, u r essentially purchasing a membership to an ofsc member club that allows u to ride a provincial wide trail system.

Nope. you are wrong. When you buy a permit it allows you to ride the ofsc club trails. If you want to be a club member you must purchase a memebership to the club. The two are completely and totally different. The latter will allow you access to information and the ability to be a part of the club. The former will allow you riding access only.

That is the business perception and thats the reality.

[Wildman]

Nope. you are wrong. When you buy a permit it allows you to ride the ofsc club trails. If you want to be a club member you must purchase a memebership to the club. The two are completely and totally different. The latter will allow you access to information and the ability to be a part of the club. The former will allow you riding access only.

That is the business perception and thats the reality.

I am sorry sir, I will advise u shop around, there are clubs that you are a member by simply buying an OFSC permit from. I belong to 1.

[Greggie]

Nope. you are wrong. When you buy a permit it allows you to ride the ofsc club trails. If you want to be a club member you must purchase a memebership to the club. The two are completely and totally different. The latter will allow you access to information and the ability to be a part of the club. The former will allow you riding access only.

That is the business perception and thats the reality.

Not true, it is what the bylaws is saying. By us, West Carleton Snowmobile Trails Association, if you buy a permit, you are also a member of WCSTA.

thanks,

Greg

[Lep]

I am sorry sir, I will advise u shop around, there are clubs that you are a member by simply buying an OFSC permit from. I belong to 1.

X2

[LuvMyViper]

Im just waiting for the `this cant be done, You dont know how things work post``

This can`t be done and you don`t know how things work!!!!

Feel better now? :hyper:

[Wildman]

i would call the OFSC a gang more than a club.imo

HAHAHHAHAHHAHH.........u r hilarious, maybe the ofsc should come up with some gang colors, do the snowmobilers of Ontario come across as a bunch of bad ass bullies 2 u?

[bbakernbay]

Nope. you are wrong. When you buy a permit it allows you to ride the ofsc club trails. If you want to be a club member you must purchase a memebership to the club. The two are completely and totally different. The latter will allow you access to information and the ability to be a part of the club. The former will allow you riding access only.

That is the business perception and thats the reality.

I don't think that is common practice for Trail Permit holders also paying to join as a member of a particular Club. Certainly not in North Bay Snowmobilers Club and I haven't heard of it in neighbouring Clubs in District 11.

I really don't see that as being an issue as to whether you are a member of a particular club or just hold a valid OFSC Trail Permit.

We can't seem to get anyone to come to our public meetings (advertised on our webpage, facebook and Twitter) and very few of our volunteers come out when we send them an e-mail request for a Work Party, etc.

Quit bashing the OFSC - where 90% of everything meaningful happens is at the Club level. The OFSC and District has no power to make a Club do anything that really impacts the trail system, other than standardized sign regs, etc.

Our Clubs get significant financial help from the OFSC - District and Province of Ontario for which you need a business such as OFSC to be able to govern.

Our Club does great work but there are only about 6-8 people involved and of that only 3-4 that look after the groomers and do the grooming.

Guys like myself help with signing, public relations, website, run the Club and sit on District committees and Boards.

The OFSC is a big organization that can't be turned on a dime - one reason being that the Clubs control the policy by Resolutions passed or defeated at the Annual General Meeting. It is a slow process and of course many votes are very close because 200 clubs do not agree on what needs to be done.

The biggest thing anyone can do is get involved with theiur club - not bitch on here but show up and volunteer even for a day or two. there is plenty of work to do. the guys and gals doing it are getting very tired and the bitching makes it much worse - see Luc the Groomer Guy

[revrnd]

Nutter (if you're still here LOL), Did you PPSC guys come up w/ the idea of "putting out" the word for help online (message forums/Facebook) yourselves or had other clubs been doing it? Do you know if any any other clubs have started doing the same. This is an idea that can be implemented w/o changes to the OFSC bylaws and/or operating procedures. It reaches people that normally may not be in the club's communication channels. I normally wasn't available to help out my home club, but was going to be around when Rick & his crew had some bridge work to do, so I volunteered.

Has the club had any negative experience w/ this kind of "casting call" for helpers?

Is it that hard to set up a Facebook page? Some might be hesitant to do so because they're afraid of the negative feedback. The OFSC talks about reaching younger sledders & I think this is the way to go. Heck each club must have some "youngsters" that are tech savvy that could administer the page. Websites that go a week or month w/o updating during the winter isn't timely.

[bbakernbay]

Here's our Facebook page, I try to post every few days as well as Twitter and our website.

Facebook page only has 50 followers but you can get to them in 60 seconds.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/NorthBaySnowmobileClub

The OFSC Main Trail is a great read for those that want to follow what happens at the OFSC governance level

Here's the December issue.

Open it up and read it through and let me know what you think. There's a lot going on.

http://resources.ofsc.on.ca/images/stories/Communications/MainTrail/MT_Dec2011_lr.pdf

This should be sent to every Trail Permit holder by e-mail every time it's published.

[revrnd]

The OFSC and District has no power to make a Club do anything that really impacts the trail system, other than standardized sign regs, etc.

The OFSC is a big organization that can't be turned on a dime - one reason being that the Clubs control the policy by Resolutions passed or defeated at the Annual General Meeting. It is a slow process and of course many votes are very close because 200 clubs do not agree on what needs to be done.

We've been told time & time agin that the volunteers run the OFSC, not the other way around. Just because it is done this way, doesn't make it right. I know we as sledders and/or club volunteers grumble about changes or the lack thereof directed by the OFSC, but does the OFSC EXPLAIN why the signs have to be removed/revised (or other changes)? Yes it is a PITA to replace a gazillion trail entry signs, but seeing the reason for it, people shouldn't be as irritated if they know it can reduce the OFSC's insurance costs.

[revrnd]

This should be sent to every Trail Permit holder by e-mail every time it's published.

That would be @ minimal or no cost to the OFSC or clubs would it? The OFSC asks for our email address when we buy our permit.

[Wildman]

I believe your a little late in your opinions. We, the OFSC and clubs have been a business for years. Its just that the clubs neglect to operate that way. A good example is dead lines. With Gov regulations etc, clubs can no longer ignore due dates. But many today feel they can operate as they did twenty years ago. You cannot just do things that way today. A dead line is a deadline. It can't be ignored.

As the dollars get tighter in the corporation clubs are going to have to look real hard at their costs. Just because you're lucky enough to sell lots of permits in your area doesn't mean you can p--- the money up against the wall. I see many clubs wasting money in their trail layouts. Yes it's simpler to put a trail on a rail line but it costs many more dollars to maintain because of sever drifting. A real waste of $$$.

this is the perfect post to use as evidence to show what has happened and why all the fallout is happening.

First off, the whole federation is treated like a business from the provincial governments standpoint. We are now manipulated by labour laws (ministry of labour), we have to keep track of volunteer hours and submit them so the provincial government knows who is doing what. We have all these deadlines for permit input by the mto. At the end of every year the clubs, district and the federation (Barrie office) have to submit corporate income tax. The deal with the corporate income tax is to satisfy the provincial and federal governments that we are NOT a business and indeed NOT FOR PROFIT ORGANIZATION. There use to be a huge difference between a business and not for profit organization. Now it seems the only difference is in whether the organization pays income tax or not. A business makes money, makes money off employee's labour, sells product or provides service at a profit and is taxed accordingly. We have none of that, yet we are treated like we do. People are not going to continue to volunteer if they are treated like an employee.

The same thing goes for making changes within the ofsc, it is not a business, we do not have a C.E.O. and staff to make on the spot decisions right now. It is run by snowmobilers with a passion for the sport. It can change, but not without huge dollars, and I haven't seen where those dollars would come from.