skidooer Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 A continuation of this thread. all u guys are doing is blaming the people that love snowmobiling and give there time to make a trail system, albeit failing lately. Do u guys understand that? The simple fact is that the OFSC has chosen to represent itself as a business instead of a community. It is not right or wrong, it just is what it is. However, in doing so, the OFSC has opened itself to the normal scrutiny of business. Look around, people are hard on all businesses. They're actually pretty nice to the OFSC, by comparison. The fact that volunteers are doing the heavy lifting is irrelevant to the social structure they have setup. Yeah, it really sucks to know that people disapprove of the hard work you are doing. I know all too well what it feels like. But by choosing to avoid the community, it is a fact of life you have to accept. The only alternative is to become a community. It's the volunteers' choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvMyViper Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hey Adam.. The system includes the OFSC and volunteers... We can't blame the volunteers when they system breaks down, so that leaves the OFSC... Pretty simple.... I fear that if something isn't done soon, we will lose our northern Ontario trails for good (and the southern trails to follow)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 We can't blame the volunteers when they system breaks down, so that leaves the OFSC... Pretty simple.... Technically the volunteers direct the OFSC. What is missed is that normal people really don't care about what lives under the OFSC name. Normal people think: "The OFSC is the business whom I give money to, to provide me with the services which I paid for." The OFSC needs a unified voice to talk with the customers, or we're going to continue to fight with problems of not only lack of help, but people abusing the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 The OFSC is the volunteers, and the volunteers are the OFSC, by blaming the OFSC you are effectivly blaming the volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 by blaming the OFSC you are effectivly blaming the volunteers. Blame is probably a poor word to even describe the whole thing. Guidance is more accurate. No one person has the point of view necessary to understand everything. Constructive criticisms provide the tools necessary to build a better tomorrow. With that, I've never been, but I can just imaging the AGM. With everyone siting around and agreeing with everyone else, just because they are volunteers and you can't disagree with other volunteers. It's amazing anything ever gets done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 If that is not pretzelogic then I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Blame is probably a poor word to even describe the whole thing. Guidance is more accurate. No one person has the point of view necessary to understand everything. Constructive criticisms provide the tools necessary to build a better tomorrow. With that, I've never been, but I can just imaging the AGM. With everyone siting around and agreeing with everyone else, just because they are volunteers and you can't disagree with other volunteers. It's amazing anything ever gets done. Never seen that in all my years at AGM, there's lots debate on issues and I mean lots .... and lots and I mean lots of working together to solve all these issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 If that is not pretzelogic then I don't know what is. With all due respect (from your accomplishments, this comes honestly), these strawmans provide nothing to the discussion. If there is an error in my point of view, I welcome your insight. As you probably know, I have volunteered countless number of hours to improve this sport but I face nothing but blame from the OFSC for not doing it right. Pot, meet kettle. Never seen that in all my years at AGM, there's lots debate on issues and I mean lots .... and lots and I mean lots of working together to solve all these issues. Obviously it was a joke, but you have to agree that if volunteers cannot receive "blame," it is impossible to discuss the matters. If you cannot open a dialog, nothing can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 With all due respect (from your accomplishments, this comes honestly), these strawmans provide nothing to the discussion. If there is an error in my point of view, I welcome your insight. As you probably know, I have volunteered countless number of hours to improve this sport but I face nothing but blame from the OFSC for not doing it right. Pot, meet kettle. Obviously it was a joke, but you have to agree that if volunteers cannot receive "blame," it is impossible to discuss the matters. If you cannot open a dialog, nothing can be done. What can you blame volunteers for, working tireless hours to off set what the provincial gov has done to Northern Ontario ? There is no solution just the bandaids we've been providing .. and now mother nature and the economy has taken it's biggest bite yet out of the stock of bandaids available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Why bother Skidooer. Your wasting your breath. They will never be able to see that no one is blaming volunteers. The system needs to change or its done. Paradigm shifts happen all the time and if they go unrecognized so does the organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 What can you blame volunteers for, working tireless hours to off set what the provincial gov has done to Northern Ontario ? So we agree, there is no blame, only friendly insights? Good. Now, let's solve some problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 The OFSC is the volunteers, and the volunteers are the OFSC, by blaming the OFSC you are effectivly blaming the volunteers. Sorry skidooer, my comment was directed to nutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I posted elsewhere on the 'net. Why do we need individual clubs, especially of the number of available volunteers is low? Set things up so that the paperwork/management/administration is done @ the district level & the "patrols" look after the trailwork & grooming. In Dist' 2, there are 8 clubs. Does each club has a person looking after permit sales/memberships? A permit buyer would call the district office to buy their permit(s). They would tell the office which club they are supporting & the permit money would go into that account. The OFSC has to realize that they have to work smarter, not harder. This would help small clubs that don't have enough folks for all the "hats" the OFSC requires to staff a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Why bother Skidooer. Your wasting your breath. Sadly, you are right. Though I think I found some new insights into the problem as a result of this thread: Perhaps the reason everyone is afraid to discuss the sport and find new solutions is because it might offend another volunteer who worked hard under the current solution (a fair point). With that, I may have actually been wrong about the direct silence, it may actually be the desire to keep everybody feeling warm and fuzzy that leads to the silence that is causing the devastating effects. Either way, the silence is killing us. Sorry skidooer, my comment was directed to nutter. No worries. My misunderstanding. I'm just here trying to learn all I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Groomer Guy Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 LikeI said in my post before I DO NOT Blame the OFSC or my District... just want to be clear. we all have our own problems in our clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackher Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 IF THIS IS THE CASE, THEN WHY DON'T THE VOLUNTEERS HAVE A SAY ON HOW THINGS SHOULD OPERATE??? I would have to assume, never having been there myself, that this is what the AGM is for. and in turn your elected/appointed/acclaimed club level executive should be bringing these concerns and/or suggestions to the AGM and the great body of the OFSC. Hell I know nothin about the OFSC internal workings...I am on enough boards, but perhaps as a "card or sticker carrying member of the OFSC" I should request a copy of the minutes of the last OFSC AGM to review before I post a bone head comment here (not saying these are, or anyone elses are) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I posted elsewhere on the 'net. Why do we need individual clubs, especially of the number of available volunteers is low? Set things up so that the paperwork/management/administration is done @ the district level & the "patrols" look after the trailwork & grooming. In Dist' 2, there are 8 clubs. Does each club has a person looking after permit sales/memberships? A permit buyer would call the district office to buy their permit(s). They would tell the office which club they are supporting & the permit money would go into that account. The OFSC has to realize that they have to work smarter, not harder. This would help small clubs that don't have enough folks for all the "hats" the OFSC requires to staff a club. Amen X1000000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Why bother Skidooer. Your wasting your breath. They will never be able to see that no one is blaming volunteers. The system needs to change or its done. Paradigm shifts happen all the time and if they go unrecognized so does the organisation. You are so absolutely right however so are a number of others here. The current framework is that the OFSC are the volunteers and the volunteers are the OFSC as stated. However things must change and evolve as the complexities of the world around us change and evolve. The way we (OFSC and clubs) did business 20 years ago is not necessarily viable today. I can guarantee that outside of compliance with signage and some of the mandatory requirements that are insurance and safety related there is a huge contingent that keep on doing things simply because that is the way we have always done it. I have seen silos in place that would be hard to dismantle. It is all around, our club this and our club that. Obviously those volunteers are going to tend towards those silos and not condsider the OFSC as a whole in a large number of cases. These silos need to be dismantled and the OFSC needs to be managed from the top down just like you would a business enterprise with the diversity we need to survive. It seems to be moving slowly towards that direction however very slowly and the pace needs to pick up. Yes we are faced with challenges by economics and environmental beyond our control but we need to proactively adapt to the changing world and the changing environment of the customers. As with any volunteer based organization 20% of the people do 80% of the work and often feel as if they are taken for granted. They do it because of their own personal satisfaction levels and passions. That is the one thing that is likely never to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I suggest you go volunteer and see how much info your allowed. When I was on my club's executive, 1 of our directors was the district rep in Barrie. We got SOME news, maybe verbally, but never a written report. I've seen the odd copy of Main Trail (which many of you have never heard of), the OFSC's internal publication & it is much more informative of the "filler" insert that comes w/ the Supertrax. It's too bad it isn't the voice of the OFSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 You are so absolutely right however so are a number of others here. The current framework is that the OFSC are the volunteers and the volunteers are the OFSC as stated. However things must change and evolve as the complexities of the world around us change and evolve. The way we (OFSC and clubs) did business 20 years ago is not necessarily viable today. X 1,000,000,000 If the OFSC like a business doesn't change w/ the times it will perish. What we did in 1982 won't cut it in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I posted elsewhere on the 'net. Why do we need individual clubs, especially of the number of available volunteers is low? Set things up so that the paperwork/management/administration is done @ the district level & the "patrols" look after the trailwork & grooming. In Dist' 2, there are 8 clubs. Does each club has a person looking after permit sales/memberships? A permit buyer would call the district office to buy their permit(s). They would tell the office which club they are supporting & the permit money would go into that account. The OFSC has to realize that they have to work smarter, not harder. This would help small clubs that don't have enough folks for all the "hats" the OFSC requires to staff a club. Another wise insight. Centralization is the way the world is evolving. If we are starved for volunteers lets look at how to best make use of the volunteer base we have. Large organizations are doing this. It used to be if I wanted a demo unit from IBM they had people doing this scattered all around the world for the countries they were in. Today Brazil manages all demo units world wide. As you suggested why can we not reduce the number of clubs possibly or the replication of some roles. Economies of scale. Leverage purchasing power. OFSC forms partnerships and alliances today. How about a contract for groomer fuel for the province and an offsetting savings for promotion ie. Shell official supplier of fuel to the OFSC. This needs to be looked at as a business and not a large collection of independent entities. A common goal brought the clubs together. Now a common need for survival mandates that they must evolve and yes I know there is some of that today. ie Muskoka Snowmobile region. But more can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Im just waiting for the `this cant be done, You dont know how things work post`` Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonut Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Here's where I take issue with the "the volunteers are the ofsc and the ofsc is the volunteers" line. Exactly who makes the decisions at the OFSC that affect the clubs.IE : Who decided the old signs needed to be replaced that showed a corner or an intersection or what ever? Was it a voting majority of volunteers? Did a MAJORITY of the "volunteers" involved with their clubs decide to shut down the manitowadge club or did the OFSC head office make that decision? One straight answer please. No BS. No ofsc rah rah rah. Just a straight answer. Who made those decisions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 I've seen the odd copy of Main Trail (which many of you have never heard of), the OFSC's internal publication Let's get this on the OFSC website, stat! It certainly won't fix all of the problems, but it would be an excellent start to opening the lines of communication without wasting a lot of resources. Again, business vs. community. Treat the customers like you're running a business, and they will not get invovled or respect what you are doing. I mean, McDonalds doesn't share their internal memos publicly either, but you don't jump behind the counter at McDonalds if you don't like the taste of your hamburger, now do you? You either complain to an employee, or never go back except to use their washroom (equivalent to those who use trails without a permit). Given that, why would anyone think to jump behind the proverbial counter of a snowmobile club? Hint: Nobody does, except a very select group of very awesome individuals. Most people are not that awesome by nature, and you can't really expect them to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 First of all, don't blame the OFSC headoffice in Barrie.They are trying to do what the OFSC members want them to do. But their hand are tight and they can't do miracles.. There are different problems in Ontario: - Lack of volunteers - Snowmobilers who go out on the trails and don't buy permits - Clubs who sell sell and less permits - Permit price too low to cover everything These four problems is that contgrolled by the OFSC Office? Nn, it is controlled by snowmobilers. There are snowmobilers who don't like to volunteer. There are snowmobilers who don't buy permits and still going out snowmobiling if they have one. The clubs are selling less and less permits, has to to with the economy and the freeloaders. Permit price too low, most snowmobilers don't want to pay more then the $200-$250. There we go, blaim us all together. We are that stupid that we 'accept' snowmobilers without a permit.We don't want to pay more then the $200-250. We don't want to volunteer. Guys look in the mirror and don't blame the OFSC Office. Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.