skidooer Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 IMO the OFSC mailing list is a huge underutilized resource for outside funding I feel the same about the website. Such a huge opportunity for advertisement and perhaps even premium content revenue. It should be the destination for every snowmobiler in Ontario on a daily basis. Instead we have something that I visit maybe once a year, if that. Does anyone here visit the public side of ofsc.on.ca on a regular basis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I feel the same about the website. Such a huge opportunity for advertisement and perhaps even premium content revenue. It should be the destination for every snowmobiler in Ontario on a daily basis. Instead we have something that I visit maybe once a year, if that. Does anyone here visit the public side of ofsc.on.ca on a regular basis? Hits on the OFSC website are huge, so I have no doubts the majority of permit buyers are using it on a regular basis for trail status and all other OFSC info, if we were to further exploit the site for advertizing we just have to make sure we don't end up slowing it down with a bunch of ad traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I think it has to do with wanting permit buyers to but the permit sooner by making it cheaper so that cash an start flowing to the clubs as opposed to only once there is snow. Bingo and actually it is a discount before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 I feel the same about the website. Such a huge opportunity for advertisement and perhaps even premium content revenue. It should be the destination for every snowmobiler in Ontario on a daily basis. Instead we have something that I visit maybe once a year, if that. Does anyone here visit the public side of ofsc.on.ca on a regular basis? I do not visit the public site very often other than a direct link to the trail conditions. The rest of the site is awkward and frustrating to use, IMO. I personally liked the old site much better because the links were much more direct and there was more 'meat' to the information on each page. I find even the trail conditions very lacking and will often go to a club or district site for more detailed info (where they do not just link to the OFSC site.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Hits on the OFSC website are huge What do you consider huge? Do the majority of the users visit daily, including the summer months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 What do you consider huge? Do the majority of the users visit daily, including the summer months? More daily traffic then there are permit buyers leading up to and in the season, off season it drops sharply, but that's to be expected. Suprizingly I heard we get a large amount of out of country and off continent hits along with domestic hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 More daily traffic then there are permit buyers leading up to and in the season So you're serving an estimated 3TB of data each month on the low end. The OFSC has reported 100,000 permit buyers in the past, so we'll say 100,000 uniques per day and we'll go with an average of 5 page views per session for a total of 100KB per user, per day. Realistically it is probably significantly higher to handle the interactive guide, but we'll be conservative in our estimates. $0.10 is a pretty standard per-GB rate, so $300 per month or $3,600 per year. Who covers those expenses if not advertising? Sites with several orders of magnitude more traffic have no trouble serving ads, so I'm not sure what you mean by your "slowness" comment, but why isn't the OFSC using this venue to increase revenue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 So you're serving an estimated 3TB of data each month on the low end. The OFSC has reported 100,000 permit buyers in the past, so we'll say 100,000 uniques per day and we'll go with an average of 5 page views per session for a total of 100KB per user, per day. Realistically it is probably significantly higher to handle the interactive guide, but we'll be conservative in our estimates. $0.10 is a pretty standard per-GB rate, so $300 per month or $3,600 per year. Who covers those expenses if not advertising? Sites with several orders of magnitude more traffic have no trouble serving ads, so I'm not sure what you mean by your "slowness" comment, but why isn't the OFSC using this venue to increase revenue? HUH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cudney Racing Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I do agree with the $10.00 increase for the older fleet of groomers, perhaps the $10.00 should have been added to the late fee making it $260.00 if you purchase after Dec 1, then those who didn't agree with the $10.00 increase could take advantage of buying the permit before Dec 1. Although I am still in amazement that the classic permit didn't go up after Dec 1. It really isn't fair to all of the other regular permit buyers. - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Lot's to think about here for sure. Powersports are expensive, plain and simple. There are few hobbies/ recreational activities that are cheap these days, unless you like bug collecting or have a pet rock. Take ATV'ing for example. Purchase prices for quads are in and around the same range as many sleds. Even insurance is comparable. associated gear however is sure cheaper than sledding except for say helmets. Plus you can ride year round (depending on where you are and what is available, trail-speaking)or close to ten month's of the year! Permits are half of what sledding is. ATV'ing is on the increase! It is more affordable than sledding and one could argue that ATV'ing is more useful than sledding. You can plow with them, use them for work, use them to go fishing, even add implements to spray crops, and mow lawns! Sledding is hands down more expensive. The season is so short IF it is a good season and IF it is a great year maybe twelve to fourteen weeks of sledding, a lousy season as seen last year in cottage country saw maybe nine weeks of okay trails. Ugh! Take it or leave it. I personally still enjoy sledding way more than ATV'ing but I enjoy both! I wonder about the guy deciding what sport to get into? I know if it was for me to decide again, ATV'ing makes more financial sense than sledding. Sledding is getting to be priced out of reach. Insane prices for new machines, permits, gear, accommodation, trailering to where the snow is...a lot of dough out the door just to get going in start up costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I wish the ofsc would give a family rate instead of the classic permit. I seen kids fixing up old sleds and riding more miles then me in a season. I don't think that is fair. I think the classic permit should be cancelled and the ofsc should give a family rate. Full price for the first permit, and 50 less for the second and 75 less for the third. Something like that. Maybe change the classic permit to 25 years or older for those people that wish to ride a few old sleds around a few times. I knew you can get special event permits anyway's, so maybe the classic could just be cancelled. I also think sled manufacurters should stop ripping us sledders off and charge around the same amount for a sled here and parts as they do in the U.S. Why should we as canadians pay 3k more for the same snowmobile, when our dollar is around par. Makes no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I wish the ofsc would give a family rate....... Have to agree with you on this point. "Generations" will keep sledding going in the future, and family sledding should be encouraged. At some point, there will be a lot of Classic Permits sold. I'd imagine there are some reliable 1997 sleds out there, and as we get into Year 2000 builds in a few years, more people may be riding older sleds and taking the Classic permit option. I'm not saying that the Classic price will be a determining factor for ENTERING or STAYING in snowmobiling. Rather, folks will look at what a 15 year old sled costs, and may say "Hey, not bad. Runs well and looks pretty good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Family rates are a good idea. I would think that there would be still have to be a reasonable fee to help fund the trail system. I wonder how other provinces handle this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lep Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Many many moons ago they used to have a family permit......must have been taking away to much on the bottom line......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Many many moons ago they used to have a family permit......must have been taking away to much on the bottom line......... It probably got abused! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Why should we as canadians pay 3k more for the same snowmobile Because we pay $3K more for the same snowmobile. If we stopped paying $3K more for the same snowmobile, the manufacturers would have to lower their prices or exit the market completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bsledding Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Yeah great news The $10.00 was to go towards replacing the groomer fleet. It would have raised about $900,000.00. Now where does the money come from to replace a badly ageing fleet? It means that the AGM has become meaningless because the will of the group can be overturned by the government in the interests of an election year. Now where does the money come from? Look at your Club's AGM package. Compare the original draft with the revised Draft Trails Funding Proposal & matrix. The points system has changed. Clubs that rated an overall points total of 4, 5, or 6 are going to take a huge hit. A Club that paid $94.29 per permit last season, will be paying over $105.00 per permit this season. Over $10 ~ $13 increase for permit cost to the Club this season. If these Clubs sold 1000 permits last season, and sell the same this season, they will bring in at least 10K less revenue this season. Overall Club Point Evaluations range from 0 to more than 8 points totals. Could this not be spread out more evenly, rather than hit Clubs that have 4, 5, or 6 so hard? It also appears that some of these District / Clubs that have taken the hit also, have had their District Equalization payments reduced. I give credit to the volunteers and OFSC committee's that have, and are trying find a better solution with the matrix formula. I am not going to complain unless someone (including myself) can come up with a better fairer system. However, I will ask questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I give credit to the volunteers and OFSC committee's that have, and are trying find a better solution with the matrix formula. Out of curiosity, what is the formula? I am working through learning machine learning techniques and it seems like it would be a pretty interesting problem for the domain. Being able to factor in externalities like, say, complex weather models to weigh on the decisions seems downright cool. Is it anywhere near that complex? Should it be in order to achieve the fairness you speak of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Out of curiosity, what is the formula? I am working through learning machine learning techniques and it seems like it would be a pretty interesting problem for the domain. Being able to factor in externalities like, say, complex weather models to weigh on the decisions seems downright cool. Is it anywhere near that complex? Should it be in order to achieve the fairness you speak of? I don't know the formula (Cadbury Secret ) but it includes factors such as length of season, grooming hours, permits sold, Km of trails and a couple of others. Some of these are averaged over 5 or so years. I expect that people have tried to create an equitable formula that, unfortunately, probably gets blown out of the water when weather patterns or other factors change over a few years and then return to normal. Definitely not an exact science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Definitely not an exact science. Most certainly not, as anyone who has ever listened to a meteorologist can attest. Though there is a wealth of information to enhance the outcome each season, not just limited to weather. It's a pretty interesting topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 It is complicated for sure. Biggest problem is, it is almost impossible to buy where you ride all of the time. I try to buy one permit from the north and one from the south. Alot easier to do this now, with online permit ordering. Most people just buy from their local store and or dealer that is closest to them. Alot of people including myself follow the snow, so they ride all over ontario. I always thought maybe there should be a larger pool of funds held back for clubs to draw from, if they experience more traffic and or a longer then average season. Another problem is some clubs have more volunteers and are out grooming more often then another club. They will run out of funds sooner. It is very complicated for sure. The ofsc just needs to sell more permits then last year and everything will be rosey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Biggest problem is, it is almost impossible to buy where you ride all of the time. I find it is even difficult to pinpoint where I ride. The club areas are pretty small, relatively speaking. You're going to pass through several on any given day's ride. If you buy multiple permits you can do a better job of spreading your money around, but us single permit buyers are limited to just one club per year. Or should I always be buying centrally and assume the formula takes the normal riding radius into account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 I find it is even difficult to pinpoint where I ride. The club areas are pretty small, relatively speaking. You're going to pass through several on any given day's ride. If you buy multiple permits you can do a better job of spreading your money around, but us single permit buyers are limited to just one club per year. Or should I always be buying centrally and assume the formula takes the normal riding radius into account? I believe this is considered as part of the 'Matrix' and how funds are distributed to the clubs that need help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I believe this is considered as part of the 'Matrix' and how funds are distributed to the clubs that need help. Good to know. It makes a big difference in terms of what "buy where you ride" means. In the presence of locality weighting, purchasing from an outlier club is counterproductive. However, without the consideration, it is a necessity. Yeah, I'm probably way over-thinking things, but I support the initiative, so I want to ensure I am doing it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomo Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 When my spouse was running a marathon, they would give her a chip thingy that read when she left the start and when she crossed the finish for her time. Use a chip on each licensed sled as part of the sticker. With a network of sensors, you could determine useage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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