couchrocket500 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Bingo! Why should the rest of us suffer because people like this? There was an out of court settlement a few years back in this area. Guy was driving too fast, went airborne and crashe into the upslope on the other side of the hill. He tried to sue the land owner the club the OFSC and the people who marked the trail. He wasin a wheel chair for 8 month (Might have been more) with a broken lower back. The case settled out of court he got a crap pile of money and pretty much jumped out of the wheel chair a few weeks later. IMO these peoples names should be smeared across bill boards. On the other side of the coin there are the people who have been injured by someone in the wrong doing. Completely different circumstance. Clearly that guys fault, sorry he got hurt and all but just the same he could have killed someone else headon on the other side of the hill. Sorta like being rewarded for being stupid. Can't be cheap to launch a lawsuit against all those entities. Almost wonder if his own insurance company didn't push him somehow to iniate those actions. Thats a big chunk of change OFSC pay each year and I'm not sure they'd (insurance companies) like to see that changed. Somebody blowing a corner smacking into another sled, damage coverage should be between those two insurance companies. Obviously this isn't the case, rather you can sue everyone that has anything to do with anything. Sad really, and it affects us all in a big way. It's a wonder the trails ever open with this kinda crap. Only political will can change this BS, election year, maybe we should make our voice heard. Who knows, wouldn't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 The issue is, laws are written by lawyers. So if it was an iron tight your fault so you can't sue anyone there would not be a need for anymore lawyers, or a lot less of them. So they write laws in twisted wording so even "Use at Your own Risk" becomes the fault of OFSC and the land owner if you know how to twist the wording the right way. And politics will never change that because most of them are lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couchrocket500 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 The issue is, laws are written by lawyers. So if it was an iron tight your fault so you can't sue anyone there would not be a need for anymore lawyers, or a lot less of them. So they write laws in twisted wording so even "Use at Your own Risk" becomes the fault of OFSC and the land owner if you know how to twist the wording the right way. And politics will never change that because most of them are lawyers. Yeah, not right is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddszr600 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 As much as the volunteers among us know that the price of the permit is fair and the reasonable sledders see the value in their investment, Im sorry to say many many sledders (a majority??) who just go out and ride have thought for years that the permit is over priced so any increase will push a few more out. Some with cheaper sleds just cant afford it along with insurance etc., not everyone who sleds has tons of disposable income. Then again some are just CHEAP, 10,000 dollar sleds Klim gear, and bitch about the permit price. The former I feel for, the latter not so much. Im not sure what it is, maybe down here being so close to Michigan where the permit is $30 or so dosent help and I know we have a much superior system, but all some people see is $$$. I know a few who live down river away from our system that only sled in the US No matter how much we can justify the price and compare it to skiing etc. these people will be out there and we will loose some each increase. We have all seen and talked to them for years so they are not going away. Personally I think the $200 level is a mental barrier and people get really strange when it goes over that. All thet said I have seen some guys who never bought a permit in their lives, have bought one over the last couple years(all classics) once they saw what our trail system had to offer, so who knows. Not saying this is good or bad on either side, just observation of people along the way. Cheers, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I personally have no issue in paying my permit fees. None whatsoever. My concern is that the added $10.00 for groomers turns into $15.00 the following year, then they need to replace bridges, so a new fund is set up for bridge replacement. Plus the added costs of insurance, fuel, etc..when would it end? They could motion a replacement fund for everything to be added to the base of a permit price, before long the cost of an annual permit would be skyhigh! Is this a one time increase of $10.00? to be removed after a season or two? Is there a limitation on what they can set up special funds for? VDRF's (vehicle depreciation replacement funds) are not new. Most corporations that run fleets (fire departments, public works) have them and they are part of our taxes. We pay our taxes, bitch about them, but there is no choice. But for the guy out there who may only ride a few weekends a Winter, this is an added cost that could drive more from the sport(ergo losing more revenue at the end of the day). Many simply do not realize the costs of operating a trail system, and in reality..don't care to know. They are just looking to spend some quality time with the family or friends. I have seen many more families out the last two Winters riding. Some on newer sleds and many on older sleds. These may be families that can no longer afford other types of recreation, and have turned or returned to sledding. Do we really want to drive them out? I would love to see some of the manufacturers put forth some money for groomers and repairs. I know some have donated to trails and that's great but they are making billions and can afford to do so. The OFSC needs to lobby some of them for $$$. JMO and not meant to contradict anybody here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 its good that you folks want to try to replace the groomers, but try to shove another 10 bucks on a permit down a sledders throat and i think you;ll find a lot will just give up the sport. trying to make this into a rich mans game is not the answer. You want to play you have to pay! The cost of the sleds and the insurance is the expensive part. Compare the cost of a trail permit to the cost of a round of gplf that so many of us enjoy. I have friends that think nothing of $100.00 for a day on the golf course. Is golf only a rich mans sport then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 You want to play you have to pay! The cost of the sleds and the insurance is the expensive part. Compare the cost of a trail permit to the cost of a round of gplf that so many of us enjoy. I have friends that think nothing of $100.00 for a day on the golf course. Is golf only a rich mans sport then? Yup on the bold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Yup on the bold! Heck, golf is known as "The Rich Man's Sport." From the information the OFSC releases, snowmobilers are by and large affluent. I guess it is easy as a group to forget what "normal" people are able to afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Heck, golf is known as "The Rich Man's Sport." From the information the OFSC releases, snowmobilers are by and large affluent. I guess it is easy as a group to forget what "normal" people are able to afford. Who wrote the rule that sledding is to be affordable everyone ? It cost what it cost too sled one can either afford it or not. I want to sky dive and scuba, shame on the none profit sky diving and scuba associations of Ontario for not catering so I can participate in those activites too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 for the harcore sledder, permit prices are just part of the deal. but, because of the associated charges like higher permit fees, fuel, oil trailering costs... we can't draw new people into the sport, to grow the sport. example...take a new person sledding, get them having a great day, get them interested, then they will start asking questions on gear costs, new sleds, trailer, insurance, permits. then they say.... it was nice but, i cant afford this all the time. for people that have a little disposable income, you can possibly add them to the sport. but the avg everyday joe that is strapped due to the economic collapse we are all stuck in... they are just getting by. they are not going to tap into there existance for recreation. and those on the fence with disposable income, will think twice about staying in a recreational activity when the associated cost rise. not just snowmobiling, ANY RECREATIONAL ACTIVITY. the reality is in tough economic times, recreation, and non-esential goods are the first to go in a standard household budget. look at ball games, hockey games, racing (even nascar), they have lowered their ticket prices to draw more people in. personally i cant stand golf but, those of my friends/family that do play dont play 100 or 200 dollar days of golf. there may be some courses and country clubs that may be priced to do this, to keep the riff raff out but, by and large the avg cost per round is cheap, (alot cheaper than 100 per day) especially if you are not drinking, and not renting carts, and eating at the club. so to be fair, i dont see the correlation between the cost of one day of golf to our 200.00 permit fee. when you spread out the cost of many golf days over the course of the season, the cost could be comparable. but dont think the avg golfer is paying 100-200 per day, everyday they golf.... THEY ARE NOT! the higher wage earners may be but, average people cant afford that for a weekly or monthly trip to the golf course. if we want to grow the sport, get more people to buy more permits, you have to get them interested in trying something new and different, reasonable fees would help. i know the fleet is aging, i know the volunteers are burned out. this doesnt appear to be sustainable at our current rate for very long. but, raising permit fees will get some people to just say enough is enough, i am doing something else. others will keep riding and not buy permits. the remainder of the folks left will be there to carry the cost burden, and the clubs, will be the one to feel the pinch. face it, our sport is declining. mostly by own own doing. ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cehyoopers Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 As much as the volunteers among us know that the price of the permit is fair and the reasonable sledders see the value in their investment, Im sorry to say many many sledders (a majority??) who just go out and ride have thought for years that the permit is over priced so any increase will push a few more out. Some with cheaper sleds just cant afford it along with insurance etc., not everyone who sleds has tons of disposable income. Then again some are just CHEAP, 10,000 dollar sleds Klim gear, and bitch about the permit price. The former I feel for, the latter not so much. Im not sure what it is, maybe down here being so close to Michigan where the permit is $30 or so dosent help and I know we have a much superior system, but all some people see is $$$. I know a few who live down river away from our system that only sled in the US No matter how much we can justify the price and compare it to skiing etc. these people will be out there and we will loose some each increase. We have all seen and talked to them for years so they are not going away. Personally I think the $200 level is a mental barrier and people get really strange when it goes over that. All thet said I have seen some guys who never bought a permit in their lives, have bought one over the last couple years(all classics) once they saw what our trail system had to offer, so who knows. Not saying this is good or bad on either side, just observation of people along the way. Cheers, Todd the MSA (Michigan snowmobile Association) is broke and broken,,,the DNR (Department of Natural Resouces) subsidizes the trail system and grooming operations.I have been a member there since 1990.The trails are overcrowded,,,but there is still some awesome off-trail (legal) riding,which is why I go there still.They have a good rule,,,if you own and ride a snowmobile in Michigan,,,anywhere but your own private land,,,you must have a trail sticker on the sled.Ontario has some awesome trails,,,but there are lots of places that rival it,,,Michigan is not one,,,unless you know the back country,,,,and be aware,,it is not groomed out there,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 the MSA (Michigan snowmobile Association) is broke and broken,,,the DNR (Department of Natural Resouces) subsidizes the trail system and grooming operations.I have been a member there since 1990.The trails are overcrowded,,,but there is still some awesome off-trail (legal) riding,which is why I go there still.They have a good rule,,,if you own and ride a snowmobile in Michigan,,,anywhere but your own private land,,,you must have a trail sticker on the sled.Ontario has some awesome trails,,,but there are lots of places that rival it,,,Michigan is not one,,,unless you know the back country,,,,and be aware,,it is not groomed out there,,, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ parts are right but, not all info is there. yes, there are dnre maintained sections of trail, and the state money for the trails goes through the dnre but, we have a fuel tax that is collected on EVERY GALLON of fuel bought EVERYDAY, that goes into a fund set aside for motorized use and maintainence. this incs summer grooming and brushing of motorcycle, and atv trails, multi use trails, and snowmobile trails in season. every sled has to have a registration, every sled has to have a trail sticker when on public property. same with atv/bikes/utv's. the traffic here will make your head spin. we have over 500,000 REGISTERED snowmobiles in michigan ALONE. this doesnt account for the tourists from ontario, ohio, pennsylvania, wisconsin, minnesota, illinois, indiana ect... that are here weekly. everyone has the internet, they all know where the largest amounts of snow has fallen, and they all head there in mass. feesibly you could have 50,000 people in a 50 mile square area, on a given storm weekend. trails are busy, beat, and brown, AND NO WAY TO KEEP UP WITH THE MOGULS. this is why we go north to northern ontario. almost 15 years now, i have never saw more than 15 people in one day while on the trail. now that we ride bush roads and crown land, we see more lynx, moose, and wolves, than we see people. but, it is not groomed, and we like to ride that way. think if you had this fuel tax on your fuel (not adding cost to the fuel, taking it from another tax already collected), then add everyone required for permits, and ALL SLEDS requiring paid registrations. now your funding can be achievable, and permit prices could be set to draw more people in. ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cehyoopers Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 hey Ski drop in on one of your up or down trips this winter,,,,, :right_on: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Who wrote the rule that sledding is to be affordable everyone ? The Ontario government, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 for the harcore sledder, permit prices are just part of the deal. but, because of the associated charges like higher permit fees, fuel, oil trailering costs... we can't draw new people into the sport, to grow the sport. example...take a new person sledding, get them having a great day, get them interested, then they will start asking questions on gear costs, new sleds, trailer, insurance, permits. then they say.... it was nice but, i cant afford this all the time. It doesn't cost that much to get into sledding, my first sled I bought 4 or 5 years ago (I don’t count the old 72TNT as I just bush wacked with it) was a 91 500indy, cost me $500 and a set of spark plugs, $175 for insurance for the year and a $125 classic permit. Rode it 2 years before getting my 04GSX. And the guy I sold the Indy to for $500, is still riding it. But yes, times are tight, and not everyone has $1000 to kick around to do what I did. personally i cant stand golf but, those of my friends/family that do play dont play 100 or 200 dollar days of golf. there may be some courses and country clubs that may be priced to do this, to keep the riff raff out but, by and large the avg cost per round is cheap, (alot cheaper than 100 per day) especially if you are not drinking, and not renting carts, and eating at the club. so to be fair, i dont see the correlation between the cost of one day of golf to our 200.00 permit fee. when you spread out the cost of many golf days over the course of the season, the cost could be comparable. but dont think the avg golfer is paying 100-200 per day, everyday they golf.... THEY ARE NOT! the higher wage earners may be but, average people cant afford that for a weekly or monthly trip to the golf course. Trust me it cost a lot to golf. Yes there are the el-cheapo little par 3 9 hole places (ours are always empty) you can still go out and wack a ball for around $20. But anything bigger and your look at $35-$50 a round, plus a cart, because you have to rent them, your not alowed to walk during peak times of the day. So that’s an extra $20 ($40 split with your golf buddy) factor in $5-$10 in lost balls, plus lunch. And a $100 burns by really fast. I know 3 or 4 people that complain about their $200 trail permit yet, drop $100 every weekend to golf for 4 hours. And they are not on the high end of the wage scale.. I think the biggest problem with peoples mind-set and a permit price is the fact you buy it when the weather is still summer like. Last year I took the motorcycle for a ride the day I got mine. Its hard to spend $200 for a sticker you don’t get to use until months later. That $100 for a round of golf, you see slowly disappear over the day as you enjoy the here and now, there is no wait and see feeling like you get with sledding. Maybe if the permit price stayed lower until January 1st, more people would get in to it, because winter has set in by then. Look at last year some guys had a 1000kms in by the first of the new year. People may see the snow and a sled go by and think, that would be fun. But now a permit is $250? and they think. Damn I missed the lower price again this year, oh well maybe next year.....And they forget when next year comes along, because only us wierdos think about sledding in August Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 It doesn't cost that much to get into sledding, my first sled I bought 4 or 5 years ago (I don’t count the old 72TNT as I just bush wacked with it) was a 91 500indy, cost me $500 and a set of spark plugs, $175 for insurance for the year and a $125 classic permit. Rode it 2 years before getting my 04GSX. And the guy I sold the Indy to for $500, is still riding it. But yes, times are tight, and not everyone has $1000 to kick around to do what I did. Trust me it cost a lot to golf. Yes there are the el-cheapo little par 3 9 hole places (ours are always empty) you can still go out and wack a ball for around $20. But anything bigger and your look at $35-$50 a round, plus a cart, because you have to rent them, your not alowed to walk during peak times of the day. So that’s an extra $20 ($40 split with your golf buddy) factor in $5-$10 in lost balls, plus lunch. And a $100 burns by really fast. I know 3 or 4 people that complain about their $200 trail permit yet, drop $100 every weekend to golf for 4 hours. And they are not on the high end of the wage scale.. I think the biggest problem with peoples mind-set and a permit price is the fact you buy it when the weather is still summer like. Last year I took the motorcycle for a ride the day I got mine. Its hard to spend $200 for a sticker you don’t get to use until months later. That $100 for a round of golf, you see slowly disappear over the day as you enjoy the here and now, there is no wait and see feeling like you get with sledding. Maybe if the permit price stayed lower until January 1st, more people would get in to it, because winter has set in by then. Look at last year some guys had a 1000kms in by the first of the new year. People may see the snow and a sled go by and think, that would be fun. But now a permit is $250? and they think. Damn I missed the lower price again this year, oh well maybe next year.....And they forget when next year comes along, because only us wierdos think about sledding in August Why is there the increase after december 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 4, 2011 Author Share Posted August 4, 2011 [/b] Why is there the increase after december 1? Actually, there is a early season discount as opposed to a price increase. The permit price is set at $250 and the discount is to help fund the clubs cover their preseason and early season costs for brushing, signage, packing, first grooming passes etc. There is a lot of work and expense prior to actual trail opening. I know it is fine point, but that is the reasoning and the purpose for the discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahas Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 [/b] Why is there the increase after december 1? I think it has to do with wanting permit buyers to but the permit sooner by making it cheaper so that cash an start flowing to the clubs as opposed to only once there is snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 4, 2011 Author Share Posted August 4, 2011 . . . Maybe if the permit price stayed lower until January 1st, more people would get in to it, because winter has set in by then. Look at last year some guys had a 1000kms in by the first of the new year. People may see the snow and a sled go by and think, that would be fun. . . . That is a possibility but when you consider the rush to purchase permits just prior to December 1 and then move that a month later, you have the rush right in the last minute Christmas rush and the busy post-Christmas time. Many of the dealers who sell our permits would not look too kindly to the amount of time required to sell permits being taken away from the time to sell their products. These dealers do not receive a commission, or any other remuneration, for selling the permits. At the same time, they provide a HUGE benefit to the clubs and an equally HUGE convenience to the sledders who can purchase their permits relatively locally. Last year, at the AGM, a motion was presented to extend the discount period to December 15. The issues that I mentioned above were brought forward and, I believe, the reason that the motion was defeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 That is a possibility but when you consider the rush to purchase permits just prior to December 1 and then move that a month later, you have the rush right in the last minute Christmas rush and the busy post-Christmas time. Many of the dealers who sell our permits would not look too kindly to the amount of time required to sell permits being taken away from the time to sell their products. These dealers do not receive a commission, or any other remuneration, for selling the permits. At the same time, they provide a HUGE benefit to the clubs and an equally HUGE convenience to the sledders who can purchase their permits relatively locally. That's a good point, I forgot about the fact dealers do it just to be nice... I wonder how many people buy permits after Dec 1st....I would think its mostly only those who get a new sled mid season. But maybe alot do wait and see what the weather is doing. My dad waited for the weather, 2 years ago and his local club never opened, E108 crosses his back yard so he only rides from home. Save him $400 that year, by holding off and waiting just to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 That's a good point, I forgot about the fact dealers do it just to be nice... I wonder how many people buy permits after Dec 1st....I would think its mostly only those who get a new sled mid season. But maybe alot do wait and see what the weather is doing. My dad waited for the weather, 2 years ago and his local club never opened, E108 crosses his back yard so he only rides from home. Save him $400 that year, by holding off and waiting just to see. If I remember the numbers correctly, about 25% of our full season permit sales were after Dec 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 hey Ski drop in on one of your up or down trips this winter,,,,, :right_on: we'll have to do that. you guys gotta come up north for a trip too. ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 for the harcore sledder, permit prices are just part of the deal. but, because of the associated charges like higher permit fees, fuel, oil trailering costs... we can't draw new people into the sport, to grow the sport. example...take a new person sledding, get them having a great day, get them interested, then they will start asking questions on gear costs, new sleds, trailer, insurance, permits. then they say.... it was nice but, i cant afford this all the time. for people that have a little disposable income, you can possibly add them to the sport. but the avg everyday joe that is strapped due to the economic collapse we are all stuck in... they are just getting by. they are not going to tap into there existance for recreation. and those on the fence with disposable income, will think twice about staying in a recreational activity when the associated cost rise. not just snowmobiling, ANY RECREATIONAL ACTIVITY. the reality is in tough economic times, recreation, and non-esential goods are the first to go in a standard household budget. look at ball games, hockey games, racing (even nascar), they have lowered their ticket prices to draw more people in. personally i cant stand golf but, those of my friends/family that do play dont play 100 or 200 dollar days of golf. there may be some courses and country clubs that may be priced to do this, to keep the riff raff out but, by and large the avg cost per round is cheap, (alot cheaper than 100 per day) especially if you are not drinking, and not renting carts, and eating at the club. so to be fair, i dont see the correlation between the cost of one day of golf to our 200.00 permit fee. when you spread out the cost of many golf days over the course of the season, the cost could be comparable. but dont think the avg golfer is paying 100-200 per day, everyday they golf.... THEY ARE NOT! the higher wage earners may be but, average people cant afford that for a weekly or monthly trip to the golf course. if we want to grow the sport, get more people to buy more permits, you have to get them interested in trying something new and different, reasonable fees would help. i know the fleet is aging, i know the volunteers are burned out. this doesnt appear to be sustainable at our current rate for very long. but, raising permit fees will get some people to just say enough is enough, i am doing something else. others will keep riding and not buy permits. the remainder of the folks left will be there to carry the cost burden, and the clubs, will be the one to feel the pinch. face it, our sport is declining. mostly by own own doing. ski Drop the price and the clubs will also feel the pinch since volunteers would have to work harder to keep older equip running, and make do with what they have for materials to keep trails open. Even if we saw a huge guaranteed annual Fed or Provincial grant and we were able to drop the permit price by $50 or even a $100 for that matter, do you really think that $50 or $100 difference a season is going to make or break someone new getting into the sport, or someone getting out of it ? People may say it because it's an easy scape goat, but personaly I think the high cost of everything else (sled, gear, fuel, insurance) hits the reality button of "I can't afford to be a sledder" long before the permit price does. When you look at how the prices of everything else in life have gone up, I think we have done a great job in keeping the permit price as low as we possibly can and still provide a fantastic trail system for riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 How about generating a little more revenue by putting up the youth driver training fees? It's not a guarantee that the youths will buy a permit before or after being trained in a course. I'm curious as to what suggestions for sources of income get mentioned at the agm or even club levels? I would go to my local club meetings and be more involved with my club but I work straight afternoons and the meetings are on thursday nights. And when I offer to help stake trails I always hear " We will call you when we are going out" but never get called. Maybe this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 How about generating a little more revenue by putting up the youth driver training fees? It's not a guarantee that the youths will buy a permit before or after being trained in a course. I'm curious as to what suggestions for sources of income get mentioned at the agm or even club levels? I would go to my local club meetings and be more involved with my club but I work straight afternoons and the meetings are on thursday nights. And when I offer to help stake trails I always hear " We will call you when we are going out" but never get called. Maybe this year! IMO the OFSC mailing list is a huge underutilized resource for outside funding, but we already hear it from guys here on line that say they don't want to recieve "junk mail", or they use the mags for "asswipe", and we also hear it from the clubs at AGM who fear the OFSC contacting "their" permit buyers in any shape or form. Just imagine if every season in late August early Sept every previous season permit buyer recieved a pre season package like Angler and Hunter members recieve, sort of like hey how are you here's a remider that seasons coming up. Fill it with stuff like the new TOP map, OFSC news letter with district contact info, driver training info, sled manu new line flyers, maybe see if Can -Tire would like to throw in their winter catalog, hotel motel flyers, sled gear manu catalogs ... ect. All for a fee of course. Trail work like staking is pretty time sensitive, since the snows usualy on the ground and frost is ready to set any day, once the land owner gives permission you have to get out right away weekday or not or you can be really screwed by ground frost. But keep trying Mossy, sooner or later things will click time wise, and/or they'll realize your there willing and able to help, if you can't do weekdays I'm sure they can find something you can do to help on weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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